56 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

I've just had a great run through Jack's recruitment mission ruined thanks to Garrus' ineptitude (despite ordering him to hold position at the back during the boss fight and cover me with his sniper rifle, he decide to try and run into them, literally covering them from my fire) and it's got me thinking about the sheer number of situations I've experienced where a really good playthrough just gets trashed by stupid crap from the AI.

Am I doing something wrong? I've never noticed any of the pro videos showing the squadmates screwing up through the playthrough, so I'm guessing there is a way to avoid it...

[khevan]

TBH, I've had lotsa runs where my squad did great, even with little to no direction from me. Then there's times when they do the "lemming" thing as you describe it. I don't know what causes this, and it does get somewhat annoying. I'll hafta keep track of this, but it almost seems that if you start micromanaging your squad, you hafta keep doing it, and not just "put 'em in cover and forget 'em." That seems to be when I've had the most problems. This is mostly a "gut feeling" kinda thing, no objective "proof" to back it up, but there it is.



My $0.05 (inflation's a ****.)

YMMV

[Ahglock]

People have told me they stay put as long as you stay close enough to them. If you move X distance away they leave cover and move to you acting on their fairly lame AI. But I suffer from really dumb AI syndrome as well.

[termokanden]

I don't know how to fix it. I've tried commanding them to take cover, and then they STAND behind cover, not even trying to avoid incoming fire. Moments later they're dead. Leave them alone and they pick cover somewhere and stand behind it.



Sometimes they magically survive for a long time on their own. It all SEEMS quite random to me.



But generally it helps to bring Grunt. I let him take Fortification as well, and he's always the last one to die.

[Praetor Knight]

I was doing a Claymore Soldier run recently and when I was getting too far from the squad, the squad resets and advances, subsequently getting torn to shreds every now and then since they often were not firing back as they did so.

It was certainly a pain, but not much of a problem for the Soldier if you are already biting the dust soon after or get the squad revived as you advance.

I've heard that some levels are composed of several cells or whatever, so I imagine that there might be some sort of cell reset that is affecting the AI scripting. I know that it happens on Garrus' LM right before the last two YMIR's so I assume that this happens in other levels as well.

[JockBuster]

I normally let them "do their own thing," most do OK, except that Miranda is the stupidest = stands there and get shot, followed by Kasumi then Garrus. Grunt seems to survive just about everything, loves killing anything and everything that moves. Legion takes a lot of hits, but hits back harder, kinna like a robotic Grunt.

Modifié par JockBuster, 24 février 2011 - 08:50 .

[Bozorgmehr]

JaegerBane wrote...

I've just had a great run through Jack's recruitment mission ruined thanks to Garrus' ineptitude (despite ordering him to hold position at the back during the boss fight and cover me with his sniper rifle, he decide to try and run into them, literally covering them from my fire) and it's got me thinking about the sheer number of situations I've experienced where a really good playthrough just gets trashed by stupid crap from the AI.

I'm afraid we're stuck with those lemmings I just had similar issues on Garrus' RM with Jack - she consistently tried to storm the merc base across the bridge although I repeatedly ordered her to back off.

Am I doing something wrong? I've never noticed any of the pro videos showing the squadmates screwing up through the playthrough, so I'm guessing there is a way to avoid it...

You're not doing anything wrong. AI is just lame at times, but sometimes it works reasonably well. The only remedy is to play extremely aggressive. This at least removes the annoyance watching squadies act stupid (you can't see them anyway) - bad thing is, you'll be taking all the heat. The time you spend behind cover = time squadies are exposed thus the less you hide means fewer squadmate screw ups. You're likely to get screwed yourself, but you'll have yourself to blame instead of the AI.

[mokponobi]

What I mainly do is try to hold threat, to do this i try to be the closest person to the nearest enemy. I keep squadmates in cover behind me somewhere, and if someone is firing at them instead of me, I start wailing on that enemy which pull the threat back to me.

This doesn't always work as sometimes I'm like wtf when I see them rush past me into oncoming fire and that usually results in their death.

Modifié par mokponobi, 24 février 2011 - 09:50 .

[Ares Caesar]

+1 to all previous posters.



Its pretty much just something you have to deal with occasionally.



Ahglock makes a great point in that too much distance from your squad can sometimes effect their AI. My Vanguard and Infiltrators suffered heavily from this due to my constantly moving around the battlefield, sometimes at great distances from them. Obviously this is not the only cause of wacky AI, but I noticed this specific issue creates more problems that seem explainable than any other.



khevan also mentions something I've noticed, upon entering a new room/combat wave if you DONT manage your squad at all (other than using powers), they seem to play much more seamlessly on their own, taking cover at proper times, moving around the battlefield and shooting, where as sometimes if you get too heavily involved in their tactical placement it seems to "disrupt their scripting" (If they have such a thing) and then they get stuck in those weird locked or stupidly suicidal actions resulting in their death. To be honest, I still prefer to place them tactically in combat than not (unless I'm playing Vanguard), because usually I've got a preconceived notion of strategy in mind, and while the squadmates MIGHT play "ok" if untouched, I find that the issue of them getting goofy/stupid is better to risk to fit my strategic plans than let them do their own thing.



Bozorgmehr also makes a good point that if you're willing to be a "bullet sponge," playing aggressively seems to be a pretty surefire way to worry a lot less about your squad... its more "intense" this way at times, but I dont get the same satisfaction from that as I would out of a "strategic and tactical masterpiece" engagement with heavy squad control.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

JaegerBane wrote...

I've just had a great run through Jack's recruitment mission ruined thanks to Garrus' ineptitude (despite ordering him to hold position at the back during the boss fight and cover me with his sniper rifle, he decide to try and run into them, literally covering them from my fire) and it's got me thinking about the sheer number of situations I've experienced where a really good playthrough just gets trashed by stupid crap from the AI.

Am I doing something wrong? I've never noticed any of the pro videos showing the squadmates screwing up through the playthrough, so I'm guessing there is a way to avoid it...

Sometimes the opposite happens, and squadmates just sit around like lame ducks, not firing or following you. For example, on the Strontium Mule mission, my squadmates usually fail to support me when I storm the bridge of the ship. Sometimes they also get hung up outside the bridge when the Blue Suns ambush and get killed by the mechs/rocket troops.

I think the problem comes from the rather limited control BW gives us over squadmates... the computer has to continually "intuit" what we want the teammates to do whenever we press Q or E or whatever. Other than the powers menu, we aren't allowed to give any specific commands, so I guess sometimes the computer screws up royally.

Ahglock wrote...

People have told me they stay put as long as you stay close enough to them. If you move X distance away they leave cover and move to you acting on their fairly lame AI. But I suffer from really dumb AI syndrome as well.

Generally true, but the actual distances vary constantly. For example, in Garrus' LM, there is a perfect bunker hold up in for the double YMIR fight, but requires Shep to move up a few meters to trigger the fight, which almost always causes squadmates to teleport in behind Shep and ruin the position. Meanwhile, on certain other missions, you can usually sit your team down while you move quite a ways away to flank (Miranda's LM has a few of these, I think). Very frustrating.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 25 février 2011 - 12:38 .

[JaegerBane]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I was doing a Claymore Soldier run recently and when I was getting too far from the squad, the squad resets and advances, subsequently getting torn to shreds every now and then since they often were not firing back as they did so.

I've heard that some levels are composed of several cells or whatever, so I imagine that there might be some sort of cell reset that is affecting the AI scripting. I know that it happens on Garrus' LM right before the last two YMIR's so I assume that this happens in other levels as well.

That could be what's going wrong. I've just had yet another run-through of horizon ruined by Grunt this time, but in this case it was because I was too close to the squad - for some reason Grunt tried to take cover in an alcove that I was occupying, and when he couldn't he just kept retrying and thus totally obscured my vision - providing all the distraction a husk needed to run straight up to me, bat me out of cover and for the Collector Assassin to wipe me out with his beam. I felt like throwing my headphones into the wall out of sheer disgust.

I don't know what it is about the squadmate AI in this playthrough but they're behaving so crap I almost feel like I'm playing Daikatana - they're actually far more of a hazard than the enemies are.

I'm assuming that, given such a situation, the best way to avoid retarditis is to deploy them in a position *just* behind where I'm going and take point, and then avoid giving them any further orders?

Modifié par JaegerBane, 25 février 2011 - 03:31 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

JaegerBane wrote...
I don't know what it is about the squadmate AI in this playthrough but they're behaving so crap I almost feel like I'm playing Daikatana - they're actually far more of a hazard than the enemies are.

I'm assuming that, given such a situation, the best way to avoid retarditis is to deploy them in a position *just* behind where I'm going and take point, and then avoid giving them any further orders?

No, no, they're not THAT bad... naw man, Daikatana was a travesty... No way way ME2 is that bad, lol. I feel you though - I'm sure we've all died / been heavily impeded by squademate imbecilism.

Much like you said, I think the best way to deal with the AI, is just to try to keep your commands as simple as possible. Don't make your squadmates do complicated things like flank or breech, unless completely necessary. Using them to form firing lines and such is usually a safe bet, but even then, try to find spots close to their starting locations and/or areas you can cover, so they don't get shot while crossing over. The less you make the AI, the more reliable it becomes.

[Kronner]

There is one basic rule - always be (you = Shepard) as close to the enemies as possible. If you do that, your squadmates will rarely die.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 février 2011 - 04:23 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, Horizon is a potential squad AI nightmare. Scions, Harbinger and Husks are not very squad-friendly. I've got good results by ordering them to take cover immediately, somewhere they are relatively safe from flanking. I reckon OniGanon's Infiltrator video showcases some great spots and flanking moves. Might be worth checking.

[JaegerBane]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
No, no, they're not THAT bad... naw man, Daikatana was a travesty... No way way ME2 is that bad, lol. I feel you though - I'm sure we've all died / been heavily impeded by squademate imbecilism.

Heh, I think I wrote that primarily out of frustration, I don't think I would have gotten to horizon if they'd been a repeat of that Superfly fella and that japanese chick - but still, I've had to re-do 3 missions so far thanks to squadmate idiocy and I'm sorely missing the old ME1 'sit here and do nothing' command

Much like you said, I think the best way to deal with the AI, is just to try to keep your commands as simple as possible. Don't make your squadmates do complicated things like flank or breech, unless completely necessary. Using them to form firing lines and such is usually a safe bet, but even then, try to find spots close to their starting locations and/or areas you can cover, so they don't get shot while crossing over. The less you make the AI, the more reliable it becomes.

I'll keep it mind then. Mordin normally sits at the back anyway and I suspect it was mainly the missions that caused the AI to bug up (the Jack recruitment mission's boss encounter just wasn't designed with the squad in mind), but I think I'll hit the weights to burn off some frustration before I take another crack at Horizon - it's one of my fave missions in the game

[Locutus_of_BORG]

No sweat, man

[Biotic_Warlock]

I find Mordin + Miranda mix seems to result in them rarely dropping... oddly.

Tali in my game seems to die quick (well having a shotgun doesnt help)

Even though garrus doesnt fight as good as poss... his power damage bonuses and max overload is awesome.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 25 février 2011 - 05:16 .

[LeandroBraz]

I use a lot of micromanaging to keep then alive and doing what I want, in the position I want. Usually works fine. Most of the time I keep them in front of me, or by my side, rarely on my back. Really, using micromanaging, the squad IA problems are no big deal.



I have only one problem: sometimes I go through a door but they don't come with me. If I don't realize that they are stuck, I keep giving orders to they for nothing. Then I have to go back and "rescue" they, It really sucks.

[Bozorgmehr]

LeandroBraz wrote...

I have only one problem: sometimes I go through a door but they don't come with me. If I don't realize that they are stuck, I keep giving orders to they for nothing. Then I have to go back and "rescue" they, It really sucks.

No need to do that. Squadmates are teleported when Shep gets to far ahead. Just keep moving on and they'll be back in no time.

[jwalker]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

I have only one problem: sometimes I go through a door but they don't come with me. If I don't realize that they are stuck, I keep giving orders to they for nothing. Then I have to go back and "rescue" they, It really sucks.

No need to do that. Squadmates are teleported when Shep gets to far ahead. Just keep moving on and they'll be back in no time.

I remember one time on Kasumi's mission. The last fight before facing Hock.
She didn't enter that room (the door closes after Shepard walks in) and I had to clean up the place solo. Kasumi only reappeared with the cutscene prior to the rooftop fight.

But yes, no-minding your squaddies usually works.

[SmokeyNinjas]

Remove them & play solo

[DxWill10]

First off, each squadmate has the same potential for screwing up. One squaddie isn't more prone to being a bad AI than any other. With that said, I generally let them do their own thing. If they're getting shot, I pop up and try to grab all the aggro.



Their movements don't bother me. Their dumb decisions don't bother me. What bothers me more than anyhting else is their insane tendency to just crouch behind cover instead of leaning against it. I see this ALL the time. When their crouched, they just shoot into the cover their behind, rendering their weapon damage worthless. I always try and keep an eye out for this. When I see it, i generally do the call squad to me button, then once they receive fire they automatically duck back into cover; the right way, leaning against it instead of crouching.



So imo, it's not their movements or decisions you need to watch out for. It's when they crouch behind cover instead of leaning against it so they can pop up and shoot. when they're just crouched behind it, their bullets almost always just end up going into the cover they're behind, instead of into enemies. So be on the look out for this, and try ordering them away from their current position. as long as they get up from being crouched, they should get behind cover normally, and be capable of resuming firing into enemies, instead of into their cover.

[Thompson family]

Kronner wrote...

There is one basic rule - always be (you = Shepard) as close to the enemies as possible. If you do that, your squadmates will rarely die.

True.

[Thompson family]

This is not a simple topic. What follows are random thoughts.

1. When you place squad mates behind cover, you have to do more than pick a spot. You have to have them approach it from the right direction. I don't know how many times I've ordered Miranda in particular to one spot behind a box and had her take position in front of it. If time allows, you then command her to move a good distance behind the cover and then up against the cover. When a squad member approaches from the right direction, they usually take cover correctly.

2. The most valuable use of the Phalanx pistol (Firepower DLC) is not as a pistol. It's as a laser pointer to allow you to more precisely place your squad where you want them to go. Then you switch back to another weapon.

3. Place your squad mates before you move Shep forward. Shep triggers the action -- usually.

4. Don't issue another order while your squad mate is headed for cover. For instance, if a squad member is moving to cover, DON'T order him or her to use a power until he or she is behind that cover and in position. Otherwise, they use the power and forget your earlier order to take cover.

5. As Kronner already mentioned, enemies tend to concentrate fire on Shep, especially when Shep's in front. Get Shep in front behind good cover and watch enemies blaze away to little good effect.

6. Enemy attacks with flashbang grenades, warp and other "blast"-like effects will jar your squadmates away from cover. Sometimes it's only slightly back, but enough to where your AI-controlled character will "think" it's no longer behind cover and will stand up. It doesn't immediately go back to cover. Harbinger's most powerful attacks, for instance, will "knock" a squadmate back even if the attack itself hits the wall in front of them.

7. Sometimes, Shep's just got to stand up and take some hits while the squad is on the move. That's what commanders do.

Modifié par Thompson family, 25 février 2011 - 10:55 .

[RGFrog]

You have to really pause regularly and manage them. I tend to leave them behind me a bit and in cover.

However, when they get hit by something that knocks them out of cover, like a rocket. They don't return to cover. They will just stand there and take shot out in the open. You have to order them back to cover, even though it's all of a foot away from them.

This can be made worse by the choice of weapons. If you choose something that has full auto, they tend to stand out of cover to fire for longer periods and this is when they get hit the most by heavies and are knocked out from cover and killed.

Also a no-no is ordering them around the field WHILE the battle is going on. They tend to move slower while firing at targets instead of going directly to where you told them. There are pauses in the action and this is the time you should move them, otherwise they will be bullet magnets and die nearly 100% of the time. I always find a cover spot for them early on. I only move them from that spot during a lul or if I need them to bullet magnets while I reposition or can make good use of their distraction.