132 réponses à ce sujet

[Bourne Endeavor]

wizardryforever wrote...

I think people need to realize that there are more ways (and possibly more fun) to play a given class than spamming their class power.  Soldiers are not all about AR anymore than Vanguards are not all about Charge.  If they were, Bioware wouldn't have bothered to give them other powers.

Frankly, Vanguards might as well have had nothing else. Charge is not only additive, it is superior in virtually every scenario plausible. This is amplified immensely on any difficulty above Normal, wherein protection comes in abundance and biotic skills such as Shockwave are obsolete. Evidently, this supports the belief Normal is the de fact canonized difficulty and the others are merely shoehorned add-ons. It belies logic one of the only skills truly beneficial to the Vanguard is Miranda's bonus power, and thus, not apart of its default repertoire.

You may certainly opt to play in an alternative manner but it will nary be as efficient as spam Charging. Soldier is identical in regards to ARush. It may be your prerogative to change up the established tactics but you only gimp yourself in doing so.

I will argue the Sentinel is something of a unique case since it can be an effective caster and offers access to arguably the two best powers in the game, excluding class powers of course. Granted, the universal cooldown system poses a conundrum, so YMMV.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

jasonsantanna wrote...

N7Infernox wrote...

jasonsantanna wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^If CS Simply became a tech power, it would suddenly and instantly become *pretty good*.

Give ARush and Flashbangs the same treatment however, they would become supercrazyinsanemegaawesomewtfbbq.

What's do you thinks bad with FB?

Flashbang would become super OP with upgrades. You'd essentially nerf every enemy in sight, and escape 'battles' untouched..

So what do you think about if CS had the upgrades I mentioned a few post back , do you think that it would improve its usefulness?

LAWL, no wonder you're so obsessed with CS!

To answer your question, if CS shot a FB grenade instead of a poor man's hadouken, it would become *useful*, to say the least.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 11 mars 2011 - 05:05 .

[JaegerBane]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

I think people need to realize that there are more ways (and possibly more fun) to play a given class than spamming their class power.  Soldiers are not all about AR anymore than Vanguards are not all about Charge.  If they were, Bioware wouldn't have bothered to give them other powers.

Frankly, Vanguards might as well have had nothing else. Charge is not only additive, it is superior in virtually every scenario plausible. This is amplified immensely on any difficulty above Normal, wherein protection comes in abundance and biotic skills such as Shockwave are obsolete. Evidently, this supports the belief Normal is the de fact canonized difficulty and the others are merely shoehorned add-ons. It belies logic one of the only skills truly beneficial to the Vanguard is Miranda's bonus power, and thus, not apart of its default repertoire.

You may certainly opt to play in an alternative manner but it will nary be as efficient as spam Charging. Soldier is identical in regards to ARush. It may be your prerogative to change up the established tactics but you only gimp yourself in doing so.

Exactly. We'll have to agree to disagree about the addictiveness of Charge, but yeah, the assertion that 'Vanguards aren't about Charge' etc is naive at best. Because of the way the class is designed you can certainly play the Vanguard using other powers in the same way you can watch television without sound or walk to work without shoes. It doesn't mean it's a particularly good idea - having a choice between playing the class in an efficient way and playing it in a gimped way is not really a choice at all.

The assumption that bioware intended it to be played in other ways on the basis of it having extra powers doesn't really fly, as it makes the assumption that those powers were balanced and tested properly - which in Shockwave's case, it pretty clearly wasn't.

[Kasper Finknottle]

Not sure if this has been said before, but you can 'Concussive Shot' mechs out of their floating delivery systems - i.e. they plummet to their doom.

Very useful on Archangel's loyalty mission :0)

[jasonsantanna]

Kasper Finknottle wrote...

Not sure if this has been said before, but you can 'Concussive Shot' mechs out of their floating delivery systems - i.e. they plummet to their doom.

Very useful on Archangel's loyalty mission :0)

Didn't know that, thanks for the info

[Stormy-B]

I would personally like CS better, and use it, if it was affected by the ammo used, turning it into a soldiers overload, incinerate or cryo blast.

[jasonsantanna]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

jasonsantanna wrote...

N7Infernox wrote...

jasonsantanna wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^If CS Simply became a tech power, it would suddenly and instantly become *pretty good*.

Give ARush and Flashbangs the same treatment however, they would become supercrazyinsanemegaawesomewtfbbq.

What's do you thinks bad with FB?

Flashbang would become super OP with upgrades. You'd essentially nerf every enemy in sight, and escape 'battles' untouched..

So what do you think about if CS had the upgrades I mentioned a few post back , do you think that it would improve its usefulness?

LAWL, no wonder you're so obsessed with CS!

To answer your question, if CS shot a FB grenade instead of a poor man's hadouken, it would become *useful*, to say the least.

Ok now I gotcha ! I see how that would be an asset , you would get the knock down effect plus FB's effects also .

[jasonsantanna]

Stormy-B wrote...

I would personally like CS better, and use it, if it was affected by the ammo used, turning it into a soldiers overload, incinerate or cryo blast.

Yeah I think it would give it better versatility and I think it would allow more ppl to use it or want to use it.

[bombaclot]

Stormy-B wrote...

I would personally like CS better, and use it, if it was affected by the ammo used, turning it into a soldiers overload, incinerate or cryo blast.

im pretty sure ammo powers affect cs. i would always run squad cyro and when garrus used cs it would insta freeze apponents. the effects would be more subtle with other ammos though.

Modifié par bombaclot, 14 mars 2011 - 03:06 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Ammo powers do not affect CS at all. Enemies can only freeze using Cryo Ammo or -Blast.

[bombaclot]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Ammo powers do not affect CS at all. Enemies can only freeze using Cryo Ammo or -Blast.

are you sure? i have watched vids where disruptor ammoed cs stuns ymirs and stuff like that. 

[jasonsantanna]

Bozo, is right ammo powers don't effect CS if it did I'm pretty sure a lot of ppl wouldn't be complaining on how crappy they think it is , what you maybe seeing is the effects of CS with a squadmate shooting an ammo power in the follow up, as far as CS hitting a mech the effect you see is just the stun effect of the CS , but I surely wish that ammo powers or squad powers would effect CS the effect would be so cool

[Alamar2078]

I don't put points into it but boy it's been a lifesaver in Insanity NG+ with my Vanguard. Those short stumbles often make the difference between a narrow getaway and a reload.

[jasonsantanna]

Alamar2078 wrote...

I don't put points into it but boy it's been a lifesaver in Insanity NG+ with my Vanguard. Those short stumbles often make the difference between a narrow getaway and a reload.

Yes, I'm doing my infiltrator , insanity run and I took Zaeed and Grunt with only 2pts in CS
When husk swarm me and I couldn't hit cloak CS worked great on getting me out of a jam
I'm new to the infiltrator class I only die 2x , and that's because I kept trying to cloak while husk were hitting me, but it was one of the most easiest runs I had I thought having 2 soldiers squadmates with me would make it hard , considering I usually bring two biotic squad mates, either Thane,Jack,Samara or Jacob, any combination of the 4 with an evolved throw or pull , but I was surprised at how well the 2 soldier handled things

[RedCaesar97]

Last night I took a Level 17 Soldier I had and retrained the powers so I could give Concussive Shot (CS) another chance. I spec'd into Commando (for +15% power damage) and equipped the +power damage armor pieces; but only the N7 chest and whatever the shoulders are called for an additional 8% power damage.

Conclusion: It's just not worth it on Insanity. I ran through Samara's recruitment mission since I'd face more enemy barriers (CS gains something like 3.5 times the damage versus barriers). I tried both the area Area CS (3m radius, 75 damage) and Heavy CS (100 damage). Heavy CS was better at stripping barriers, but most of the time could not even strip them completely off the basic enemies. I tried using CS as a soldier version of throw, firing it a pulled or frozen targets. It couldn't even do that effectively. You can curve it somewhat, but nowhere near to the extent that you can with tech/biotic powers so most of the time it was just hitting cover instead of curving around it.

Perhaps CS is an absolute beast on Normal difficulty, but my first playthrough in ME2 was a Soldier on Normal and I do not remember it being useful even then. CS is kind of hybrid between Throw and Warp, but is vastly outclassed by both. You are better off just activating Adrenaline Rush (AR) and shooting, which is really too bad since spamming AR can become very bland and outright overpowered when using the Mattock.

I also took Inferno Grenade and tried to use it as a poor-man's Incinerate. It could not even strip the armor off a Loki mech. In fact, it was more effective when it happened to hit a merc that had almost full health. It killed the merc in about four seconds. Go figure. Evolving Flashbang into Frag Grenade would probably be more effective.

[jasonsantanna]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Last night I took a Level 17 Soldier I had and retrained the powers so I could give Concussive Shot (CS) another chance. I spec'd into Commando (for +15% power damage) and equipped the +power damage armor pieces; but only the N7 chest and whatever the shoulders are called for an additional 8% power damage.

Conclusion: It's just not worth it on Insanity. I ran through Samara's recruitment mission since I'd face more enemy barriers (CS gains something like 3.5 times the damage versus barriers). I tried both the area Area CS (3m radius, 75 damage) and Heavy CS (100 damage). Heavy CS was better at stripping barriers, but most of the time could not even strip them completely off the basic enemies. I tried using CS as a soldier version of throw, firing it a pulled or frozen targets. It couldn't even do that effectively. You can curve it somewhat, but nowhere near to the extent that you can with tech/biotic powers so most of the time it was just hitting cover instead of curving around it.

Perhaps CS is an absolute beast on Normal difficulty, but my first playthrough in ME2 was a Soldier on Normal and I do not remember it being useful even then. CS is kind of hybrid between Throw and Warp, but is vastly outclassed by both. You are better off just activating Adrenaline Rush (AR) and shooting, which is really too bad since spamming AR can become very bland and outright overpowered when using the Mattock.

I also took Inferno Grenade and tried to use it as a poor-man's Incinerate. It could not even strip the armor off a Loki mech. In fact, it was more effective when it happened to hit a merc that had almost full health. It killed the merc in about four seconds. Go figure. Evolving Flashbang into Frag Grenade would probably be more effective.

I think maybe what BW did was what a lot of ppl are talking about in most threads poor balancing of power or abilities, I was planning on doing the same test , I think they figured AR.was the top power having a stronger CS would maybe make the soldier to powerful, but I still think it is a good weapon in the hands of squad mates , I wish it had the ammo ability as I stated some post ago or bring in an evolving form to turn it into carnage from ME1

[Alamar2078]

IIRC didn't someone say that Powers / characters / etc. were balanced against "Normal" difficulty and it was left to us to figure out what works in Insanity??

I'm not too worried that more than 1 point in CS is a "waste" under many builds on higher difficulties. I'm just glad "soldiers" have something so I'll take what I can get

[jasonsantanna]

Alamar2078 wrote...

IIRC didn't someone say that Powers / characters / etc. were balanced against "Normal" difficulty and it was left to us to figure out what works in Insanity??

I'm not too worried that more than 1 point in CS is a "waste" under many builds on higher difficulties. I'm just glad "soldiers" have something so I'll take what I can get

Your right thanks for pointing that out I forgot, I never played on normal I started on vet or hardcore when I first got the game so I'm not certain how CS reactions differ from on normal, I use it anyway in certain situations , and since I only play on insanity now , has anyone ever compared its normal game play effect and its insanity game play, I'm going to check Youtube vids to see if anyone has

[RGFrog]

I use CD as a poor man's throw when i'm the only adept about. works well in conjunction with pull, singularity, etc.

It's really funny sometimes with slam. You get Miri to start the slam, pause, aim and CS... they fly a bit and then, pow, hit the floor.

It's not as good as throw when i'm trying to knock krogan off the bridge on grunts recruit. mission. But still usefull to put a charging krogon on its back.

Deffinitely not a power to rely on, but still far more useful than shockwave, imo.

[jasonsantanna]

RGFrog wrote...

I use CD as a poor man's throw when i'm the only adept about. works well in conjunction with pull, singularity, etc.

It's really funny sometimes with slam. You get Miri to start the slam, pause, aim and CS... they fly a bit and then, pow, hit the floor.

It's not as good as throw when i'm trying to knock krogan off the bridge on grunts recruit. mission. But still usefull to put a charging krogon on its back.

Deffinitely not a power to rely on, but still far more useful than shockwave, imo.

Right its not the holy grail of powers but there are those times where you can use it, but ppl say why not just pop AR if your a soldier , the moments at using it may be rare but I have found it a life saver in more than a few missions, as for a squadie use it it has really helped me out on my Infiltrator run I even did the derelict reaper with 2 squad mates and breezed thur yes I did die 2x but I was try n 2 cloak and husk swarm me , dumb of me can not activate while your butt is being handed a beat down lol

[JRKnight]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Ammo powers do not affect CS at all. Enemies can only freeze using Cryo Ammo or -Blast.

True enough.  However; I think I've got an idea of what bombaclot was talking about, how the freezing effect seemed to trigger instantly when the shot hit.  The targets were just starting to come under the ammo powers' effects, but it takes a few seconds for it to fully kick in.  When CS detonated in those seconds, it knocked the enemies back and effectively accelerated the ammo's freezing process, making them frozen blocks of ice before they even hit the ground.  I have had this happen a number of times while using Heavy Concussive Shot and Inferno ammo.

Best guess at what caused this to happen.  It has to be the ragdoll mechanic and the additional 100% weapons damage enemies can take.

Modifié par JRKnight, 21 mars 2011 - 10:50 .

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Never found much use for it as a one-point wonder for Shep.The low damage and cooldown just kill this power, really.

Even in its evolved AOE CC form, you might as well just use AR and relocate. Hell, or even charge and melee everyone on lower difficulty levels.

[RGFrog]

Cooldowns screw up a lot of things.

[jasonsantanna]

I am glad for ME3 , that BW answer one of my wishes for ammo powers to effect CC , I was one of the few ppl who really liked CC and always said that ammo powers added to CC would greatly improve it , so I thank you and I hope all the other soldier class players do also

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Honestly, no one wants CS to stay worthless, as bad as it is in ME2... Not useless on Squaddies, but quite bad on Shep. Hopefully it really will be better in ME3.

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

Never found much use for it as a one-point wonder for Shep.The low damage and cooldown just kill this power, really.

Even in its evolved AOE CC form, you might as well just use AR and relocate. Hell, or even charge and melee everyone on lower difficulty levels.

Well, you wouldn't find it good as a 1-pt. wonder b/c it just isn't a 1-pt. wonder. It's currently one of the worst powers in the game, though some diehards still swear by it.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 30 juin 2011 - 05:52 .