73 réponses à ce sujet

[Moondoggie]

Lots of people have come forward with plenty of advice so i won't bore you with another load of techno mumbo jumbo for you to read. I'll simply say that you should do as much research as you can before buying anything. Do you want to buy a complete rig or build your own? There are benefits to both.



Think long and hard about the things you need in your system and don't try to spend too much even if you can. Think about the components that suit your needs and spend money in the right places. It's no good spending money on a Blu Ray drive for no reason for example.



Learn about different brands for components and which ones are more reliable. Understand AMD vs Intel CPU's and the benfits of chosing each. Chosing AMD or Intel CPU's will decide what MoBo you choose so you need to look at which one to pick that will give you what you need for the best value possible.



Same with graphics cards you have Nvidia GeForce cards or AMD (formerly ATI) Radeon cards. Look at as many benchmarks as you can especially for the kind of games you want to play so you can find one that packs the best punch for the money. You want to balance performence with value as much as possible and that's the art of building a rig. Some people want the most expensive everything but you can build a great rig for a great price if you have the knowledge of what you need beforehand.



So in short learn about all the components you'll need look around at cases find one that's the right size and has the right cooling for your needs,. Don't overspend on stuff you don't need like crappy neon lights and Blu Ray Drives or a CPU that is way more than you need. And don't worry about "futureproofing" just get what you need now. Computers have about a 3 year shelf life so you won't need to futureproof for anything past the next 3 years before you end up starting over anyways.

[Jannamarie]

I would like to build my next PC also, but I'm wondering about water cooling. I live in central California and just can't afford to cool house to keep the PC cool during the summer months (electric bills can easily top $900/month if you do). But four or five hours of intense gaming can heat the PC components to where the hard drives will practically quit until you have some down time to cool. I'm not afraid of doing a PC build, but I'm a little frighten by trying the water cooling. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Jannamarie]

BTW, my budget is about $2500

[basdoorn]

Doofus42 wrote...
For a single GPU the 750 Watt will be enough. If you want to go SLI with a 2rd GPU I would look at something with about 850 Watts.

I have to protest this. A 750 Watt power supply for a computer with a single video card is a bit overkill, as a decent 600W power supply will easily do. 300W video card, 140W processor, 50W mainboard and 10W for the harddisk only gets you to 500W total. Note that these values are maximum TDP values not normally encountered in real programs, games and operating conditions. A 750W power supply would not be a bad choice however, only it usually costs a fair bit more than a 600W model. When going for 2 video cards you will need the 850W power supply however as a lot of video cards use 200-300W when gaming these days. Going from 600W to 850W matches the increased video card power draw. If you want additional power budget or have numerous devices in your computer case and would thus choose a 750W power supply with 1 video card, you might want to go for a 1,000 W model with 2 video cards.

A processor requiring more than 140W and a video card requiring over 300W will never make it to market in the coming years, there is just no economic way to get that much heat out of current computer cases without excessive noise and reliability issues. For video cards any single card over 300W is also not PCI-Express compliant anymore, so consumer cards will never want to go there for yet another reason. In other words, the power limits mentioned above have been and will remain in effect for quite some time in an otherwise very volatile market. For reference: some Pentium 4 models were listed at 115W over 5 years ago, the GTX 295 was listed at 289W over 2 years ago.  It featured lower clockspeeds than even the GTX 280 as otherwise it would have gone over the 300W boundary. The time of increasing performance by increasing the power budget seems to be over, one of the reasons it is all about efficiency these days.

Modifié par basdoorn, 26 février 2011 - 10:11 .

[Ballsagne]

Kloreep wrote...

I agree with YodaySunrider, for a gaming machine a 2600 seems like an unnecessary expense. Hyperthreading isn't that useful for games, especially when you already have a quad core, and a some extra L3 cache doesn't seem worth the price. (Just look at some benchmarks if you don't believe me, the 2500 and 2600 get the same frame rate in many tests.) If you really are spending only $1000, the extra $100 or so you'd save by going for a 2500/2500k could probably be better spent elsewhere, like better GPU(s)..)

This advice is starting to grow on me. Is there any possible benefit to getting the i7 2600K over the i5 2500K? Its looking like id rather save the $100 unless Im missing something serious to consider

[Doofus42]

Jannamarie - There are self contained liquid CPU coolers on the market now that seem to work quite well. I have a Corsair H70 in my current build and it keeps the CPU core temps in the 60C range when I am gaming. I live in central Texas so I know about hot summers!

Ballsagne - I have an i7-950 that I have overclocked to 4.2 GHz..  I have turned off the hyper threading in the BIOS because I don't have any games that will utilize more than 4 cores.  This allows me to use less voltage and keep the CPU cooler.  So yes I think a 2500K & GTX560 be a better system than a 2600K and GTX460.  And the 2500K/GTX560 would cost less!  I am sure there would be an equivalent AMD based GPU pair.

Modifié par Doofus42, 26 février 2011 - 10:11 .

[olnorton]

YodaySunrider wrote...

The problem is that you can't actually get the 1155 mobo's right now, they have been completely removed from everywhere.

I didn't realise that, they are readily available here in Australia.

[basdoorn]

Jannamarie wrote...
But four or five hours of intense gaming can heat the PC components to where the hard drives will practically quit

You could look into water cooling and should buy a PC case with optimized airflow in any event. Think $ 100 upwards for just the case without power supply. 120mm and 140mm fans can move lots of air without excessive noise in such cases. Your new case should have a fan of this size right in front of the harddiks, cooling them to very near room temperature. An SSD is also feasible in your budget and can take heat much more easily as it has no mechanical components. If you get a video card with a custom cooler such as the Twin Fr0zr or DirectCU the temperature could still be manageable with air cooling and without the risk of leakages that a water cooling setup has. When in doubt, get a case with a fan in the side panel near the video card and have it blow the hot air out of the case right where it is being heated. This alone can take 10-15 degrees off your video card temperature and also largely prevents the video card from heating up the rest of the system.

Be aware that heat buildup will stabilize environment temperatures within the computer case in a matter of 10-20 minutes at most. It might climb a few degrees in the hours after that as the PC is heating your room, but after 20 minutes at most your harddisks will have had the worst of the temperature rise. If they are running hot (over 45 degrees C) for hours on end this will impair their reliability, so make backups more frequently.

Modifié par basdoorn, 26 février 2011 - 11:25 .

[Hekynn]

Look up Cyberpowerpc.com you can get a good amd gaming rig for like around $750-$800.

[Kloreep]

Ballsagne wrote...

This advice is starting to grow on me. Is there any possible benefit to getting the i7 2600K over the i5 2500K?

For gaming, no. Not for anything available today, anyhow.

It's not like the 2600 would hurt if you had all the money in the world, but who does? Like I said, I think you'll probably see more gaming bang for your buck putting the CPU savings into your GPU-buying budget. (Especially since more powerful/more graphics cards may require a more expensive power supply.) Or, just pocket the difference and save some money on the build.

[RaenImrahl]

Jannamarie wrote...

I would like to build my next PC also, but I'm wondering about water cooling. I live in central California and just can't afford to cool house to keep the PC cool during the summer months (electric bills can easily top $900/month if you do). But four or five hours of intense gaming can heat the PC components to where the hard drives will practically quit until you have some down time to cool. I'm not afraid of doing a PC build, but I'm a little frighten by trying the water cooling. Any advice would be appreciated.

For $2500 you can build one heck of a system!  As to water cooling, never really considered it for two reasons... one, I am lazy-- keeping my case and fans dust free is the maximum amount of effort i want to put into a system. Water cooling systems need to be checked and filled regularly, from what I understand.  Two, I don't overclock my hardware-- water cooling is really only worth the expense if you're trying to torture every single hetrz of speed out of your chips.

Consider instead using a high-ariflow case design... I have just recently gotten a Coolermaster HAF 922 case with two 200mm fans and a number of smaller ones.  It has excellent airflow and keeps my system... which includes two Nvidia graphcis cards in SLI configuration... at about 65C under max load for the graphics cards and less for the CPU.  And I'm using the fan that came with it. 

Designing a system from the ground-up will give you other heat-management advantages that can negate the need for water cooling.  For example, get a big enough case so you can include a larger CPU fan if neccessary.  When you do your build-out, bundle your cables, or get a case with runners, so the wiring doesn't impeed airflow.  If you're running several older hard drives, consider retiring some of them (or get an external USB adapter to use them as backup) and put in fewer but bigger ones... the fewer physical drives, the less heat inside the case.  

Finally, I certainly understand the issue with air conditioning.   Consider instead using a dehumidifyer.  They're relatively inexpensive and modern ones are power efficient.  Humidity in the air carries a lot of ambient heat (what's why a muggy day at 90 degrees is a heck of a lot worse than a dry one at 90 degrees)... keeping the humidity low in the room will allow your air-cooled system to work more efficiently.

Cheers!

RI

[Wynessa]

Kloreep wrote...

kong009 wrote...

I will tell you the information about OEM versions of windows presented above is largely incorrect. The ONLY difference between a retail box copy of Windows 7 for $199 and an OEM version of the same thing for $99 is Microsoft support. That's it.

It seems we're both wrong. (Or half right, if you prefer.) I was wrong about upgrades, you can change just about anything you want in your computer with a Windows 7 OEM. But not the motherboard. If you put a new motherboard in, your license is smoke.

So, if you think you're going to be keeping the mobo for a while, the OEM version may indeed be a good way to save money. (Sounds like a good reason to wait for LGA 1155 and a core i5-2000, to me. Make sure you have a good CPU socket/CPU, that will be sure to last you for some time, if you're going to be locking your motherboard in to your Windows license.)

Ballsagne wrote...

Are there any good controllers out
there that are similar to the PS3 Controller? Ive been on that
controller since PS1 (which was like '96 lol) so its just what Im
comfortable with

I believe there are drivers out there for PS3 controllers. You should be able to use them with Windows.

Don't expect a controller to work well with DA2 though, if either DAO or the DA2 demo is an implication. When pointing & clicking is this tied in, even a keyboard emulator won't make a game controller-suitable.

DargaardKeep wrote...

Don't forget to purchase clips for the motherboard.

?

If you mean standoffs and screws to mount the motherboard in the case, I think cases will generally come with those (though it's certainly good to check).

If you mean something else, I'm obviously not aware of what "clips" mean.

A basic way to understand OEM is you get 1 online activation and if you make a major change like replacing the Motherboard you will then have to ring the support number to get a new product key, just be honest and  tell them that you have just upgraded it. I have personally done this twice, 1 was a mobo upgrade & replacement and the other was a complete system upgrade.

If you do this frequently without a legitimate excuse or use the same one like "my motherboard died" it brings up a flag in the systems and then you might get a firm "NO go buy a retail version" from the Tech, but it rarely happens.
hope that helps clear up a few things for you

[Kloreep]

Wynessa wrote...

if you make a major change like replacing the Motherboard you will then have to ring the support number to get a new product key, just be honest and  tell them that you have just upgraded it. I have personally done this twice, 1 was a mobo upgrade & replacement and the other was a complete system upgrade.

I hadn't heard they would approve the activation if you were simply honest and told them you're doing a system overhaul. Good to hear & know.

[Wynessa]

Not sure what the Techs in the US are like but over here in Australia they are ok with that sort of thing.

[RaenImrahl]

Wynessa wrote...


A basic way to understand OEM is you get 1 online activation and if you make a major change like replacing the Motherboard you will then have to ring the support number to get a new product key, just be honest and  tell them that you have just upgraded it. I have personally done this twice, 1 was a mobo upgrade & replacement and the other was a complete system upgrade.

If you do this frequently without a legitimate excuse or use the same one like "my motherboard died" it brings up a flag in the systems and then you might get a firm "NO go buy a retail version" from the Tech, but it rarely happens.
hope that helps clear up a few things for you

Heck... last time I reinstalled using my OEM of Win 7 Pro it didn't even give me a problem reactivating... and I installed a new Mobo, CPU, and GPU....

[bretylium]

Get an i7 2600k CPU
Get the appropriate socket motherboard with a NVIDIA chipset
Get 6-8 gb DDR3 RAM
Get a Geforce gtx570 or gtx580 (570 is better for price)
Get a power supply, recommend Corsair 750 watt
Nice 24" monitors are under $400, if you want 3D glasses ready monitor check NVIDIA website for compatible monitors
Try an Antec 900 case
Get a copy of Windows (64 bit version)

[Jannamarie]

I'm in a desert part of CA. Humidity in the summer time is rarely over 30 to 40%. I've already got the 24" monitor. I was thinking of 12 gb RAM which pushes the dollars up. Switched out my first hard drive in 86, before some or most of you were born. I've upgraded all my pcs and done my friends, I just have never done the complete build nor a water cooling build. Thanks for the ideas.  BTW that first hard disk was 20mb and I upgraded to 40mb

Modifié par Jannamarie, 01 mars 2011 - 03:25 .

[olnorton]

Jannamarie wrote...

I'm in a desert part of CA. Humidity in the summer time is rarely over 30 to 40%. I've already got the 24" monitor. I was thinking of 12 gb RAM which pushes the dollars up. Switched out my first hard drive in 86, before some or most of you were born. I've upgraded all my pcs and done my friends, I just have never done the complete build nor a water cooling build. Thanks for the ideas.  BTW that first hard disk was 20mb and I upgraded to 40mb

12 gig kits of ram are only for X58 Motherboards.
If your going for a 2600K or any Sandybridge setup, you will want an 8 or 16 gig kit.

Oh, and building a watercooling loop is easy & nothing to be afraid of.
You just need a pump, a CPU waterblock, a radiator, & a reservoir, some hose & fittings & some coolant.
Assembly is straight forward, although I always jump start the PSU & run the loop without power to the motherboard first.
I have had watercooling on many systems over the years & have never had a leek.

The Corsair H70 is good value if you don't want to build your own.

My watercooled  2600K is running @ 4500MHz & can run LinX at less than 70C with an ambient room tempeture of 28C (any more than that & I turn the aircon on.)

Modifié par olnorton, 01 mars 2011 - 09:03 .

[Sa Seba]

It's a crappy time right now to build a pc, since the best option (1155 boards and with that sandy bridge cpu's) is not going to be available until mid to end of march. If you want advice and actual pointers as to what to buy and recommendations for stores, check out the hardwarecanucks.com forum .

Especially if you are in the US or Canada, you can defenitely build a nice pc for $1200.

[Deucal]

Oh btw. If you don't want your computer to sound like a jet engine. Do some basic research at silentpcreview website. Their forum is also very good for newbie support and advice.

[Deucal]

 Did a quick and dirty pullover on newegg and got this together.*Windows not included
*Keyboard and mouse not included
*Monitor not included

The Mobo supports AMD/ATI crossfire so you can add a second card later for more power. (The GPU is AMD/AT)
The 3rd party heat sink is an awsome one and big so you can actually OC without trouble and actually reduce the spin on the heatsink fan. And all this and you still keep it pretty cool with out any super jet noise.

On a later date you can add an SDD for some super loading speeds.

But this gets you going and this is a pretty good build. You could probably save here and there, if your heart is in it.

Total: $964.90

Note: you don't need a super duper WATT  Power Supply, you just need a good one and Seasonic is as good as they come.

And have fun building your first PC. Its fun... just take it slowly and don't spill liquid into the case .

Qty.Product DescriptionSavingsTotal Price
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEMItem #: N82E16827135204Return Policy: Standard Return PolicyProtect Your Investment (expand for options)$18.99
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer CaseItem #: N82E16811119068Return Policy: Standard Return Policy-$5.00 Instant
$54.99$49.99
Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare DriveItem #: N82E16822136514Return Policy: Standard Return PolicyProtect Your Investment (expand for options)-$20.00 Instant
$99.99$79.99
MSI 870A-G55 AM3 AMD 770 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD MotherboardItem #: N82E16813130558Return Policy: Standard Return PolicyProtect Your Investment (expand for options)$10.00 Mail-in Rebate$99.99
HIS H695F2G2M Radeon HD 6950 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with EyefinityItem #: N82E16814161355Return Policy: VGA Standard Return PolicyProtect Your Investment (expand for options)-$10.00 Instant
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card$289.99$279.99
Seasonic SS-560KM Active PFC F3, 560W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91, 80Plus Gold Certified, Modular Power SupplyItem #: N82E16817151098Return Policy: Standard Return Policy-$9.00 Instant
$129.99$120.99
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEMItem #: N82E16835100007Return Policy: Consumable Item Refund Only Return Policy$9.99
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-8GBRLItem #: N82E16820231311Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy$84.99
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOXItem #: N82E16819103727Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return PolicyProtect Your Investment (expand for options)$159.99
Thermalright U120eXtrem1366RT R-C 120mm Fluid Dynamic CPU CoolerItem #: N82E16835109021Return Policy: Standard Return Policy$59.99Subtotal:$964.90


$59.99

Modifié par Deucal, 02 mars 2011 - 10:45 .

[Deucal]

Edit: Double Post

Modifié par Deucal, 02 mars 2011 - 10:43 .

[olnorton]

The replacement B3 chipset 1155pin P67's are now in the shops down here in Australia, so they shouldn't be that long to the US.
If you want to read some P67 Motherboard reviews, I have a list here.  www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php/47797-The-P67-Motherboard-Reviews

[kwinkatopo]

oi53.tinypic.com/r0xumu.jpg

^ That's just a link to a preview since tinypic doesn't allow for full-size when they're that large. I didn't feel like creating an account for anything else, so here's a mediafire upload.

http://www.mediafire...1m22b6p&thumb=4