926 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Chrumpek wrote...

For me spells should be different part of game as the actual talent trees. Atm we got 56 spells (that is with talents) and if we dont count talents or the upgrades if you prefer to call them - we got 31 spells. That is not too much right? Fleshy - yes, how much replayability at the ned - min ~^

Taken from the talent description thread hopefuly the poster won't mind but its worth repeating here:

Adhin wrote...

Some of them where duplicates or ugprades and, theres 10 things per Web (if you count upgrades). Thats 60 base not 56. Then 3 specializations brings that up to 90. If you count full skills in DAO (not awakening) you get 84. Overall its very comparable however, the same numbers for Warrior Rogue equal that of mages now, instead of being there 40-50 of the last game. 

Also keep in mind you can only get 2 specializations. So in DAO that was 76 total, and in DAO, 80. I still hold by DAO, even for mages, has more flexibility and a greater emphasis on Specializations - mage or otherwise.

[Lak_Attack]

Modifié par PirateGoat, 27 février 2011 - 08:07 .

[Godak]

PirateGoat wrote...

Very insightful. I now feel that mages are the epitome of epic, the pinnacle of perfection, and the image of immaculancy.

[Yenkaz]

I want to be a mage.

But I want Bethany in my party.

But I want to be a mage.

Blarg.

[Ares_mito]

Someone knows something more about Force mage than what is written in the official site?

[shinobigoomba]

so anyone know how far in the game it is when you become champion of kirkwall?

[Spazztik]

I love me some mages. I can't WAIT to try out a blood mage in DA2! Malifecar thy name is HAWKE!

[LexXxich]

Morroian wrote...

Adhin wrote...

Some of them where duplicates or ugprades and, theres 10 things per Web (if you count upgrades). Thats 60 base not 56. Then 3 specializations brings that up to 90. If you count full skills in DAO (not awakening) you get 84. Overall its very comparable however, the same numbers for Warrior Rogue equal that of mages now, instead of being there 40-50 of the last game. 

Also keep in mind you can only get 2 specializations. So in DAO that was 76 total, and in DAO, 80. I still hold by DAO, even for mages, has more flexibility and a greater emphasis on Specializations - mage or otherwise.

Math is very off with this one.
1. Counting *only* activated and sustained, and not counting clear upgrades (like Walking Bomb ->Virulent Walking Bomb, and Paralyze->Mass Paralysis) DAO has 55 spells (counting everything it's 68). DA2 has 28 spells when counted by the same method - 4-5 spells on each tree (counting everything it's 60).
Specialisations don't count in both.
2. In DAO, upgrades were separate spells with separate cooldowns. So you could cast each of them on different enemies, for example.
3. You are required to spend 2-3 times more points to get spells to have the same effect as they had in Origins. Walking Bomb is an example - you have to upgrade it for it to deal damage to target.
Longer cooldowns in general also contribute to mages being auto-attacking most of the time.

[Chrumpek]

LexXxich wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Adhin wrote...

Some of them where duplicates or ugprades and, theres 10 things per Web (if you count upgrades). Thats 60 base not 56. Then 3 specializations brings that up to 90. If you count full skills in DAO (not awakening) you get 84. Overall its very comparable however, the same numbers for Warrior Rogue equal that of mages now, instead of being there 40-50 of the last game. 

Also keep in mind you can only get 2 specializations. So in DAO that was 76 total, and in DAO, 80. I still hold by DAO, even for mages, has more flexibility and a greater emphasis on Specializations - mage or otherwise.

Math is very off with this one.
1. Counting *only* activated and sustained, and not counting clear upgrades (like Walking Bomb ->Virulent Walking Bomb, and Paralyze->Mass Paralysis) DAO has 55 spells (counting everything it's 68). DA2 has 28 spells when counted by the same method - 4-5 spells on each tree (counting everything it's 60).
Specialisations don't count in both.
2. In DAO, upgrades were separate spells with separate cooldowns. So you could cast each of them on different enemies, for example.
3. You are required to spend 2-3 times more points to get spells to have the same effect as they had in Origins. Walking Bomb is an example - you have to upgrade it for it to deal damage to target.
Longer cooldowns in general also contribute to mages being auto-attacking most of the time.

That's my point - less spells, more upgrades and talents that should be in a talent tree or so.

[Dukemon]

My Mages need Talents for heavy Armors and Swords. Where are the Mage with Swords? Without Swords is the Mage not funny... The Mage is awesome, but Mages with Swords are so glorious, so shiny, so noble, so cool that they make the Templar ridiculous. : D

I hope you understand me.

Modifié par Dukemon, 27 février 2011 - 09:26 .

[Stevie 402]

Little over one week til I am able to unleash the full might and anger of my apostate male Hawke mage, his possible LI Anders and the wrath of Ser Pounce A Lot...Well maybe Merrill and not the kitty.

[Morroian]

LexXxich wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Adhin wrote...

Some of them where duplicates or ugprades and, theres 10 things per Web (if you count upgrades). Thats 60 base not 56. Then 3 specializations brings that up to 90. If you count full skills in DAO (not awakening) you get 84. Overall its very comparable however, the same numbers for Warrior Rogue equal that of mages now, instead of being there 40-50 of the last game. 

Also keep in mind you can only get 2 specializations. So in DAO that was 76 total, and in DAO, 80. I still hold by DAO, even for mages, has more flexibility and a greater emphasis on Specializations - mage or otherwise.

Math is very off with this one.

Its not off, just counting raw talents its correct. And specialisations should be included because they have more than double the talents that they had in DAO.

LexXxich wrote...
2. In DAO, upgrades were separate spells with separate cooldowns. So you could cast each of them on different enemies, for example.

Which left use with too many spells to manage effectively. I prefer the DA2 approach. Plus it balances out the classes.

LexXxich wrote...
3. You are required to spend 2-3 times more points to get spells to have the same effect as they had in Origins. Walking Bomb is an example - you have to upgrade it for it to deal damage to target.

Yes and you can upgrade spells to have a greater effect than in DAO. Walking Bomb is 1 example, Winters Blast is another.

[Morroian]

Chrumpek wrote...

That's my point - less spells, more upgrades and talents that should be in a talent tree or so.

Why?

[lost lupus]

Codex explination for staff twirling

It was long thought that staff weapons had plateaued in performance, but Sandel proved all theories wrong. After spending 3 days in a lyrium induced daze, Sandel found that in The age of Dragon, most Battles were won by the side who's mage could cast the most spells down-range the fastest. But Mage's were forced shoot basic attacks slower due to restrictions in staff design, or fall back between shot's.

To eliminate this inefficiency, Sandel adopted a new design that utilises Centipetal to "charge" the staff by increaseing the mana flow from the castor into the staff these are known simple as "Baton" Staves (the first "prototypes" were gven to some Apostates in lothering before it was sacked). While Most Staff manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained Mage can "charge" the staff by performing a set action based on its current position and "Level of Mana" in mere seconds second. Faced with superior enemy fireballs, Other Staff Suppliers soon followed the Sandels lead. Today's battlefields are raded from these Prized "Baton" Staves, And mages who are properly trained in their use are highly sort after. 

Modifié par lost lupus, 27 février 2011 - 09:54 .

[geegee_90]

Yenkaz wrote...

I want to be a mage.

But I want Bethany in my party.

But I want to be a mage.

Blarg.

I feel EXACTLY the same way 

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Morroian wrote...

Yes and you can upgrade spells to have a greater effect than in DAO. Walking Bomb is 1 example, Winters Blast is another.

Let us be honest here. There are FAR fewer spells for the mage in DA2.

ALL of the DA2 spells start off weaker before the upgrade and most are weaker after the upgrade. And have longer cooldown times.

Winter's Blast upgrade adding a tiny area of effect does not make the spell stronger and is actually harmful on nightmare because it takes away one "safe" spell. Plus if I want any of the fire or ice spells to be as strong as they could be I have to invest in ALL of the spells in elemental tree.

The mage was majorly nerfed.

[Morroian]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The mage was majorly nerfed.

I wouldn't say majorly and with upgrades the mage should be at least nearly as powerful as in DAO but I keep asking you why is this a problem? 

[Icy Magebane]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Yes and you can upgrade spells to have a greater effect than in DAO. Walking Bomb is 1 example, Winters Blast is another.

Let us be honest here. There are FAR fewer spells for the mage in DA2.

ALL of the DA2 spells start off weaker before the upgrade and most are weaker after the upgrade. And have longer cooldown times.

Winter's Blast upgrade adding a tiny area of effect does not make the spell stronger and is actually harmful on nightmare because it takes away one "safe" spell. Plus if I want any of the fire or ice spells to be as strong as they could be I have to invest in ALL of the spells in elemental tree.

The mage was majorly nerfed.

I agree with this.  Those mastery skills are unnecessarily strict when it comes to requirements.  Long ago I wanted a Fire/Lightning mage, but that idea went out the window when I realized I needed to spend 2 points on ice magic (which I did not want to use or even learn) to get the maximum damage for fire spells.

The skill trees are riddled with these kinds of restrictions.  The branches make it seem as though you have some freedom, but in truth, you are going to be spending 4, 5, sometimes 6 points just to get the one skill or upgrade you're looking for...  Death Hex requires level 4, but you need 5 other Entropy spells first.  Huh?  And if you take a close look, getting those 5 points is a very restricted process, with many spells leading you back to pick up things like Sleep, etc...  Upgrades should only require that have previously learned the basic ability... I don't want to waste one of my VERY limited points to learn something that isn't part of my vision for the character.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The concept of shapeshifting could be a fan favorite. With the improved mage gameplay, the specialization could be a lot of fun, if the animals we shape into are cool and not underwhelming like in Origins (locusts...really?).

Heh, Swarm was the one I used most often, both for armor penetration and because of the speed of movement.

[Addai]

Mezinger wrote...

I realize this makes me old school, but I prefer the archetype mage, with robes and a staff... old school, sturdy, the interface to the fade, resolute and brimming with will but careful not to end up on the front line. I mean really what would Wynne say about this new breed? I detest the new animations, sounds and the baton wielding melee attacks. The spell trees look okay though, and I like the idea they've introduced were you can upgrade a specific skill / spell.

LOL If Wynne comes by and complains about my Hawke's spellcasting style, that will be the piece de resistance to seal my love for it.

Modifié par Addai67, 27 février 2011 - 10:25 .

[LexXxich]

Morroian wrote...
Its not off, just counting raw talents its correct. And specialisations should be included because they have more than double the talents that they had in DAO.

Specializations are unlocked, bonus content. You'll spend most of the game without them. Counting raw talents/spells will only provide you with number of points you can theoretically sink into system, nothing more.

Which left use with too many spells to manage effectively. I prefer the DA2 approach. Plus it balances out the classes.

Only problem with effective management of lots of spells was quick bar's length. And you could always remove obsolete spells from it. Balance is already appeased by increashng number of Talents for Warriors and Rogues and including some outrageous things in them, like Bulwark (5sec immunity to phys dmg and force every 10 sec, for just 2 points), Elemental Shroud (60% elemental resist for 15% of reserved stamina and 2 points), and Rogue's "teleportations".

Yes and you can upgrade spells to have a greater effect than in DAO. Walking Bomb is 1 example, Winters Blast is another.

Only very limited number of spells *gains* something from upgrades. Walking Bomb is not one of them.

Overall, I'm not going to argue if BW did the right or wrong thing with mages. I *am* going to argue that mages have less actual abilities now, frequency of use of those abilities also decreased, and those abilities are generally less powerful than in Origins.

[Morroian]

LexXxich wrote...

Overall, I'm not going to argue if BW did the right or wrong thing with mages. I *am* going to argue that mages have less actual abilities now, frequency of use of those abilities also decreased, and those abilities are generally less powerful than in Origins.

Thats probably right, so what? What is the issue?

[Schmoodla]

I love the mage class now, it seems improved and more interesting.
I don't care if we have less spells - to me, they seem more powerful now.
Plus, the new animations rock. I can't wait to play one in the real game.

Modifié par Schmoodla, 27 février 2011 - 10:36 .

[tjhanson2001]

Only thing I don't like is you can't target AoE's on mobs

[Morroian]

Schmoodla wrote...

I love the mage class now, it seems improved and more interesting.
I don't care if we have less spells - to me, they seem more powerful now.

I don't think they are but they look like being more interesting to play the development paths are better, more interesting and arguably more strategic than in DAO.