926 réponses à ce sujet

[Baelyn]

Mezinger wrote...
 We saw Apostates in DA:O and DA:A and and none of them were ninja baton whirlers who were also decked out in armour.

To be truthful we don't really meet any apostate's that we know came from a background like Hawke does...In addition if we take a look at the Staff of Parthalan...(if this really was passed down in the family) it could lead to that this fighting style was a signature thing in his family. Either that or its a Hawke specific thing as it is obvious from the pictures that someone took the head of the staff and tied it to a blade specifically with this style in mind.

I don't believe we have seen any other mages fight yet (other than Bethany who is...obviously a Hawke as well) but I could be wrong in assuming they may not fight in the same exact way.

[Morroian]

Reaverwind wrote...

I do know that, from watching the Gamespot video. The player was throwing fire spells at fire-resistant enemies to "look busy", but they weren't doing a thing.

So one look at an online demo is now an example for the whole game. What were the stats of the characters? And regardless wouldn't you then try another type of spell. Sounds like you expect mages to be overpowered badasses who should steamroll anything.

Modifié par Morroian, 28 février 2011 - 03:37 .

[Reaverwind]

Morroian wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

I do know that, from watching the Gamespot video. The player was throwing fire spells at fire-resistant enemies to "look busy", but they weren't doing a thing.

So one look at an online demo is now an example for the whole game. What were the stats of the characters? And regardless wouldn't you then try another type of spell. Sounds like you expect mages to be overpowered badasses who should steamroll anything.

That "demo" was from the full game. Yes, I do expect mages to be badasses. They're supposed to be dangerous. They're also glass cannons - you keep their asses off the front lines. Templars should put the fear of the Maker into them (one thing Bioware does seem to be doing right). From what I've seen and experienced, mages have lost 50% of their DPS, while gaining absolutely nothing elsewhere. They're no more durable than they were in DA:O, excluding that insanely-boring arcane warrior hybrid, and have even less utility.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 28 février 2011 - 04:13 .

[CastawayChimera]

I dunno. All I can say is I like the mages WAY more than in DA:O from playing the demo.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Morroian wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

I do know that, from watching the Gamespot video. The player was throwing fire spells at fire-resistant enemies to "look busy", but they weren't doing a thing.

So one look at an online demo is now an example for the whole game. What were the stats of the characters? And regardless wouldn't you then try another type of spell. Sounds like you expect mages to be overpowered badasses who should steamroll anything.

I just want useful spells to be available when needed. A mage being unable to damage anything due to the unavailablity of spells would be as frustrating as a warrior swinging his sword and unable to damage what he was fighting.

The mage's "crowd control"  spells are pretty short on time stunned, paralyzed, ect and long on cooldowns. Mages are going to be wishing for some of those "redundant" spells from DA:O, especially in NM where the short crowd control abilities are even shorter.

As far as we know the Magic stat does not help penetrate spell resistance (or magic resistance I think they call it now.) I asked the question about if the magic attribute helps overcome spell resistance four times in different threads where a developer has been posting and it was not answered. My conclusion is that it does not.

[Morroian]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

As far as we know the Magic stat does not help penetrate spell resistance (or magic resistance I think they call it now.) I asked the question about if the magic attribute helps overcome spell resistance four times in different threads where a developer has been posting and it was not answered. My conclusion is that it does not.

Yeah but if thats right for mages to be properly balanced there must be some alternative. Surely not all spell resistances are 100%, therefore there must be some calculation happening of whether a resistance has been overcome or not.

[Morroian]

Reaverwind wrote...

That "demo" was from the full game. Yes, I do expect mages to be badasses. They're supposed to be dangerous. They're also glass cannons - you keep their asses off the front lines. Templars should put the fear of the Maker into them (one thing Bioware does seem to be doing right). From what I've seen and experienced, mages have lost 50% of their DPS, while gaining absolutely nothing elsewhere. They're no more durable than they were in DA:O, excluding that insanely-boring arcane warrior hybrid, and have even less utility.

Yeah but they shouldn't make the game insanely easy for mages. There has to be balance somewhere. I actually found a mage easier to play in the demo than the other classes.

[Reaverwind]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

I do know that, from watching the Gamespot video. The player was throwing fire spells at fire-resistant enemies to "look busy", but they weren't doing a thing.

So one look at an online demo is now an example for the whole game. What were the stats of the characters? And regardless wouldn't you then try another type of spell. Sounds like you expect mages to be overpowered badasses who should steamroll anything.

I just want useful spells to be available when needed. A mage being unable to damage anything due to the unavailablity of spells would be as frustrating as a warrior swinging his sword and unable to damage what he was fighting.

The mage's "crowd control"  spells are pretty short on time stunned, paralyzed, ect and long on cooldowns. Mages are going to be wishing for some of those "redundant" spells from DA:O, especially in NM where the short crowd control abilities are even shorter.

As far as we know the Magic stat does not help penetrate spell resistance (or magic resistance I think they call it now.) I asked the question about if the magic attribute helps overcome spell resistance four times in different threads where a developer has been posting and it was not answered. My conclusion is that it does not.

Too many of the fights were too quick and consisted of trash mobs in the demo. You could practically let the game play on auto-pilot all the way up to the ogre, and it gives you a false sense of power. I got my first taste of what a long fight would be like when the party glitched during the ogre battle and refused to move. I didn't know then that the cooldown timers were shorter in the demo, and already hated having spam staff attacks while waiting for the damned spells to recharge. I was too bored to continue the demo beyond that point.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 28 février 2011 - 04:29 .

[Graunt]

Reaverwind wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

I do know that, from watching the Gamespot video. The player was throwing fire spells at fire-resistant enemies to "look busy", but they weren't doing a thing.

So one look at an online demo is now an example for the whole game. What were the stats of the characters? And regardless wouldn't you then try another type of spell. Sounds like you expect mages to be overpowered badasses who should steamroll anything.

That "demo" was from the full game. Yes, I do expect mages to be badasses. They're supposed to be dangerous. They're also glass cannons - you keep their asses off the front lines. Templars should put the fear of the Maker into them (one thing Bioware does seem to be doing right). From what I've seen and experienced, mages have lost 50% of their DPS, while gaining absolutely nothing elsewhere. They're no more durable than they were in DA:O, excluding that insanely-boring arcane warrior hybrid, and have even less utility.

Mages may not actually end up being "badasses" compared to a Rogue or Warrior, but something closer to balanced.  Which is a good thing because they most certainly were not in DA:O.  In DA:A they were stiil very strong, but the other classes surpassed them in raw damage output.  

In DA2 it's looking like you will still be required to have at least one caster in the group simply for healing, but aside from that they also seem like they would be much better as overall support/CC this time around instead of just raw area of effect damage.  This might not matter on the Normal difficulty, but for those who play on Nightmare it will.  Right away I'm just not seeing the DA2 Mage as much more than an Archer with a heal.  Of course, that's with the very limited options we had in the demo with no real knowledge on specilization abilities.

As far as we know the Magic stat does not help penetrate spell
resistance (or magic resistance I think they call it now.) I asked the
question about if the magic attribute helps overcome spell
resistance four times in different threads where a developer has been
posting and it was not answered. My conclusion is that it does not.

Isn't there a talent that makes your spells gain penetration?  It would be silly to have that if you could gain the same benefit (even if it's just to a lesser degree) by just pumping the stat you're going to raise anyway.

Modifié par Graunt, 28 février 2011 - 05:07 .

[pomrink]

lost lupus wrote...

Codex explination for staff twirling

It was long thought that staff weapons had plateaued in performance, but Sandel proved all theories wrong. After spending 3 days in a lyrium induced daze, Sandel found that in The age of Dragon, most Battles were won by the side who's mage could cast the most spells down-range the fastest. But Mage's were forced shoot basic attacks slower due to restrictions in staff design, or fall back between shot's.

To eliminate this inefficiency, Sandel adopted a new design that utilises Centipetal to "charge" the staff by increaseing the mana flow from the castor into the staff these are known simple as "Baton" Staves (the first "prototypes" were gven to some Apostates in lothering before it was sacked). While Most Staff manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained Mage can "charge" the staff by performing a set action based on its current position and "Level of Mana" in mere seconds second. Faced with superior enemy fireballs, Other Staff Suppliers soon followed the Sandels lead. Today's battlefields are raded from these Prized "Baton" Staves, And mages who are properly trained in their use are highly sort after. 

Am I the only one who found this intensely amusing?

[Reaverwind]

Graunt wrote...

Mages may not actually end up being "badasses" compared to a Rogue or Warrior, but something closer to balanced.  Which is a good thing because they most certainly were not in DA:O.  In DA:A they were stiil very strong, but the other classes surpassed them in raw damage output.  

In DA2 it's looking like you will still be required to have at least one caster in the group simply for healing, but aside from that they also seem like they would be much better as overall support/CC this time around instead of just raw area of effect damage.  This might not matter on the Normal difficulty, but for those who play on Nightmare it will.  Right away I'm just not seeing the DA2 Mage as much more than an Archer with a heal.  Of course, that's with the very limited options we had in the demo with no real knowledge on specilization abilities.

We do know that the spirit healer spec forces your mage to be a heal bot exclusively, and cc has also been nerfed.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 28 février 2011 - 05:13 .

[Addai]

Morroian wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

That "demo" was from the full game. Yes, I do expect mages to be badasses. They're supposed to be dangerous. They're also glass cannons - you keep their asses off the front lines. Templars should put the fear of the Maker into them (one thing Bioware does seem to be doing right). From what I've seen and experienced, mages have lost 50% of their DPS, while gaining absolutely nothing elsewhere. They're no more durable than they were in DA:O, excluding that insanely-boring arcane warrior hybrid, and have even less utility.

Yeah but they shouldn't make the game insanely easy for mages. There has to be balance somewhere. I actually found a mage easier to play in the demo than the other classes.

I found it about the same as archery rogue, which is to say efficient and right where it needed to be.  Couldn't play a warrior through the demo- talk about no damage.  But I believe Stanley Woo said they went back to the drawing board on the 2H warrior so they seem to have gotten that message.

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

Exactly how has Crowd Control been nerfed?

[Misto29]

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Exactly how has Crowd Control been nerfed?

*FAILS* Say it's not so! I love laying down a good size blizzard or blazzing Inferno! Most might knock a mage, but it's those spells that stop the mobs in there tracks or confuse them and knock down their AC that gives warriors and rouges a chance to kill them! 

[Misto29]

Freaking typos....

Modifié par Misto29, 28 février 2011 - 05:36 .

[Icy Magebane]

Misto29 wrote...

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Exactly how has Crowd Control been nerfed?

*FAILS* Say it's not so! I love laying down a good size blizzard or blazzing Inferno! Most might knock a mage, but it's those spells that stop the mobs in there tracks or confuse them and knock down their AC that gives warriors and rouges a chance to kill them! 

Um... both of those are gone.  In fact, all skills like that are gone...  :/   Maybe "altered" is a better word...  blizzard is straight up gone though.  I'm just hoping Blood Wound isn't nerfed all to hell...

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Graunt wrote...

Mages may not actually end up being "badasses" compared to a Rogue or Warrior, but something closer to balanced.  Which is a good thing because they most certainly were not in DA:O.  In DA:A they were stiil very strong, but the other classes surpassed them in raw damage output.  

I think the rogues and warriors can DPS and crowd control better than the more squishy mage. A mage is simply not needed in the party. The heal spell has a very long cooldown. Better to do more dps and kill your enemies quickeer than to depend on the little healing the mage can provide.

Isn't there a talent that makes your spells gain penetration?  It would be silly to have that if you could gain the same benefit (even if it's just to a lesser degree) by just pumping the stat you're going to raise anyway.

No, there is not. Look through the talents. The mage talents are about half waydown. Feel free to point it out if I missed it.
http://social.biowar...1/index/6090138

Exactly how has Crowd Control been nerfed?

Long cooldowns and short effects.

[Morroian]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Misto29 wrote...

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Exactly how has Crowd Control been nerfed?

*FAILS* Say it's not so! I love laying down a good size blizzard or blazzing Inferno! Most might knock a mage, but it's those spells that stop the mobs in there tracks or confuse them and knock down their AC that gives warriors and rouges a chance to kill them! 

Um... both of those are gone.  In fact, all skills like that are gone...  :/   Maybe "altered" is a better word...  blizzard is straight up gone though.  I'm just hoping Blood Wound isn't nerfed all to hell...

We've still got tempest, firestorm replacing inferno, there's the AOE entropy spells, the glyph spells, blood wound, the force mage spells...........

Modifié par Morroian, 28 février 2011 - 05:48 .

[Icy Magebane]

Morroian wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Misto29 wrote...

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Exactly how has Crowd Control been nerfed?

*FAILS* Say it's not so! I love laying down a good size blizzard or blazzing Inferno! Most might knock a mage, but it's those spells that stop the mobs in there tracks or confuse them and knock down their AC that gives warriors and rouges a chance to kill them! 

Um... both of those are gone.  In fact, all skills like that are gone...  :/   Maybe "altered" is a better word...  blizzard is straight up gone though.  I'm just hoping Blood Wound isn't nerfed all to hell...

We've still got tempest, firestorm replacing inferno, there's the AOE entropy spells, the glyph spells, blood wound, the force mage spells...........

Yeah, that's kind of why I said "altered" was a better word.  Now let's see... Blizard is gone.  Earthquake is gone.  Death Cloud is GONE.  AoE depending on whether or not a single target is nearby does not count.  So whatever isn't "gone" is altered, and by "altered," I mean "significantly changed and nerfed."  Clear?

[Oddlyotter]

I played a rogue through DAO and Awakening. And my first try at the demo. 2nd playthrough of the demo, I played a mage. I loved it! I didn't like being so squishy but I did love raining fire upon my enemies from the sky and being able to heal without toggling over to another character for a poultice then back to my character. I'm sure the high the level to shorter the cooldowns will get.

Modifié par Oddlyotter, 28 février 2011 - 06:01 .

[godlike13]

So what? Firestorm is a "nerfed" version of inferno?

And what about spells like Tempest (no FF), Chain Lightning, Glyph of Paralysis, ect...

[Icy Magebane]

Look, I was just answering that guy's question. I'm not here to argue what is and is not effective in a game that has yet to be played.

[Graunt]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
I think the rogues and warriors can DPS and crowd control better than the more squishy mage. A mage is simply not needed in the party. The heal spell has a very long cooldown. Better to do more dps and kill your enemies quickeer than to depend on the little healing the mage can provide.

Like I said in another thread, the reason the healing spell is on such a long cooldown compared to Origins is because healing made true "tanks" irrelevant.  There was no need when you could just have higher damage builds, that sure they lost a little more health, but you could quickly heal it back up and healing was "free" after the fights ended anyway.  In this game they seem to want to be shoving tanks down our throats and saying "THIS IS HOW WE WANT YOU TO PLAY, SO YOU WILL PLAY THIS WAY!".   

Aveline took so much less damage compared to everyone else.  Now once you give her all of the survivability and threat abilities, theoretically she will be the only one taking any physical damage, thus the healing spell becomes "important" to a single character.

Don't forget what Brittle does though.  Not only are the targets not doing any damage (since you have to freeze them anyway to get Brittle), but it makes the damage of the other classes skyrocket. So just think of it like the Diablo 2 Necromancer Amplify Damage spell (not exactly the same I know, but a similar outcome).  Mages will be far from useless, and I dare you to play your first run on Hard (since I think Nightmare is locked at the start?) without one.  I'm sure it will be doable, but it won't be nearly as easy.

Also...

4. Desiccate
Requires: Level 8
Requires: Petrify
Points required in Primal: 3
Petrify now leaves the foe more exposed, decreasing protection from attacks and turning most enemies BRITTLE.
Enemy damage resistance: -30%
BRITTLE chance: 100% vs. normal enemies
Type: Upgrade

1. Hex of Torment
Requires: Level 4
The mage curses the enemy, increasing damage from all sources for a short time.
Enemy damage resistance: -25%
Duration: 15s
Cost: 20 mana
Cooldown: 30s
Type: Activated ability


10. Death Cloud
Requires: Level 12
Requires: Entropic Cloud
Points required in Entropy: 6
The cloud now inherits lesser forms of the upgrades to spells in this school, regardless of whether the mage has learned them.
Spirit damage: 1 every 4s
Enemy attack speed: -50%
Enemy movement speed: -50%
Enemy damage resistance: -25%
Paralyze chance: 100% vs. sleeping targets
Type: Upgrade

Physical attacks only?  I know that's not what you were really looking for though, and more of a passive that worked for all of your spells.

Modifié par Graunt, 28 février 2011 - 06:17 .

[Morroian]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Yeah, that's kind of why I said "altered" was a better word.  Now let's see... Blizard is gone.  Earthquake is gone.  Death Cloud is GONE.  AoE depending on whether or not a single target is nearby does not count.  

Sure it does, regardless of how it achieves its affect its still AOE. It is a pity that blizzard is gone.

[Graunt]

From the description of the Force Mage, is anyone else thinking Mass Effect biotics?  Honestly, that was the funnest thing (gameplay wise) to me about the first game.  It made me feel more like a Jedi than any Star Wars game had ever done.  If the Force Mage spells have anything remotely similar to Lift, Throw or Pull, they will be awesome.

What I'm wondering is...when is Bioware actually going to release the specialization trees for the three classes?  It's a bit late to be worrying about keeping things secretive.

Sure it does, regardless of how it achieves its affect its still AOE. It is a pity that blizzard is gone.

Oh come on, you're both right in your own way.  It just depends on your perspective about how "worth it" it is to cast such a spell.  Personally, I don't consider anything lower than three targets AOE worthy, and that's only if there's a non basic unit in the mix.  Otherwise, it's much cheaper and effective to just single target/focus fire.

And I'm not going to lie, despite the fact that the Mage felt rather "ho hum" in the demo (especially because the player character is FORCED to grab the healing spell if you want it in your party at that point), Firestorm looked really nice.  The version from Origins may have filled the screen more, but it really looked kind of just like a lot of unnecessary clutter to me.

I found it about the same as archery rogue, which is to say
efficient and right where it needed to be.  Couldn't play a warrior
through the demo- talk about no damage.  But I believe Stanley Woo said
they went back to the drawing board on the 2H warrior so they seem to
have gotten that message.

I personally felt the Archer was the weakest of the bunch in the demo. It did indeed feel similar to a Mage, yet much weaker and without the healing option.  Pinning shot...I mean really?  The only reason to ever use abilities like that was simply because you had nothing else to blow your stamina on and it added a little bit of damage.  The utility of being able to hit a tough enemy multiple times before it reaches your group is not worth the much greater "all purpose" damage.  Explosive Shot did not seem to do anything remotely close to Fireball, and Rain of Arrows (or whatever it was) just seemed like a targeted dot more than a bursty spell...which makes it rather weak if they simply run out of the area after it starts.

Also, LOL@the Warrior comment.  It's so utterly not true at all.  At the very beginning no other class comes anywhere close to what the Warrior was doing with Reaper and Whirlwind.  Yes, at levels 1-4 they are probably the weakest of the bunch (maybe tied with Archers), but once you start getting level 5,7,9 abilities, they start coming into major form.

Modifié par Graunt, 28 février 2011 - 06:36 .