926 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

Yeah, the heal spell takes way too long to recharge...

[Marionettetc]

Assassin Rex wrote...

Does anyone here agree with me that the heal spell takes too long to recharge. Either they increase the amount of health points it restores or they increase the recharge time. Anyways Magic for life. Always a mage. Forever a mage.
Force Mage here I come.

I don't agree.

A longer down period on healing will necessitate the need to develop the spirit healer tree out of redundancy, if you want a primary healer.

It also encourages proper tactics instead of just walking through traps and charging bosses - because "I can just use heal as a way to fix my mistakes".

I suspect most people are more reliant on healing than they think they are. With the de-emphasis on healing, and the cooldown on potions - perhaps the tank shines more brightly? Or the disable rogue? Or the CC warrior?

[Marionettetc]

Edit - Double post, my apologies.

Modifié par Marionettetc, 28 février 2011 - 07:02 .

[Kyriani Agrivar]

One thing to consider... if your playstyle is reliant on a dedicated healer but you don't want to lose your ability to deal damage as well... you can always set up your tactics to accommodate this. Simply put... the heal and group heal spells have long cooldowns and the aura from spirit healer is meant to be a sort of regenerative buff to passively heal in the meantime, but there's no reason you cant simply set tactics to turn the healing aura off once group heal and heal have been cast so you can use more offensive spells. Sure the aura has a 10 second cooldown but the cooldown for heal and group heal are far longer than that.

The thing some folk here seem to completely dismiss is that while yes you can't cast damage spells while the healing aura is active, there is nothing preventing you from turning it off once your heals are on cooldown (assuming you dont need to use any of the other spells in the spirit healer tree) so you can nuke a bit and turn it back on when you want to heal again.

A clever tactic setup can likely automate this behavior for a "heal bot" style npc to care for your party. It may not be as heal spam "mother hen" as DA:O was but it can be done and done effectively if set up right.

[Morroian]

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

A Dev stated that by the endgame, he was "heavily invested" in 2 trees and had a smattering of other spells.

He stated expected endgame was level 20.

No he didn't they have said the expected progression is similar to DAO ie if you do everything you can reach level 25. And I'm pretty sure he said he was invested in 2 of the main talent trees and 2 of the specs ie. 4 trees.

[Wissenschaft]

Keep in mind it seems defensive skills are a lot more power. Shield Defense itself negates a lot of damage. Also, between Warriors, Rogues, and Mages, there are a lot of effective crowd control abilities so healing is likely less necessary now.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Marionettetc wrote...

Assassin Rex wrote...

Does anyone here agree with me that the heal spell takes too long to recharge. Either they increase the amount of health points it restores or they increase the recharge time. Anyways Magic for life. Always a mage. Forever a mage.
Force Mage here I come.

I don't agree.

A longer down period on healing will necessitate the need to develop the spirit healer tree out of redundancy, if you want a primary healer.

It also encourages proper tactics instead of just walking through traps and charging bosses - because "I can just use heal as a way to fix my mistakes".

I suspect most people are more reliant on healing than they think they are. With the de-emphasis on healing, and the cooldown on potions - perhaps the tank shines more brightly? Or the disable rogue? Or the CC warrior?

Oddly enough, that doesn't describe my playstyle from DA:O AT ALL, and yet I still found the cooldown on healing to be too long.

[godlike13]

I like the sound of most of the branches, the only one that kind of irks me is Spirit. Spirit Bolt and Walking Bomb sound awesome, and i would like to get the branch's passive to make them even more awesome, but Death Syphon is a requirement and that just sounds like a waste.

Modifié par godlike13, 28 février 2011 - 08:38 .

[ReallyRue]

Hmm, after playing through the demo a few more times, I think the recharge time on heal is fine (for normal difficulty, anyway). It encourages you to think more about when you heal instead of just spamming it.

[Gvaz]

Not if potions have a large cooldown. Also stealing potions (for nightmare) is going to be frustrating)

[congealeddgtllvr]

ReallyRue wrote...

Hmm, after playing through the demo a few more times, I think the recharge time on heal is fine (for normal difficulty, anyway). It encourages you to think more about when you heal instead of just spamming it.

^This.

I also like that potions have a longer cooldown.  I think constantly drinking potions makes for incredibly boring combat.

Modifié par congealeddgtllvr, 28 février 2011 - 08:56 .

[Emzamination]

I'm going with Elemental mage tho I hope (and this is a long shot) I get the option to become flemeth's apprentice :happy:. 

[LexXxich]

ReallyRue wrote...

Hmm, after playing through the demo a few more times, I think the recharge time on heal is fine (for normal difficulty, anyway). It encourages you to think more about when you heal instead of just spamming it.

No. It "encourages" you to not get hit, since the only heal spell is an emergency button. I understand the need to bring Warriors and Rogue up to level, but it made mage's party buffs almost useless in comparison.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Not get hit? Did I miss a feature in DA2 that allows you to actively avoid getting hit?

Never mind that the new combat system seems designed around flashy nonsense and running around in circles and jumping and flipping about like a circus freak, thus making any kind of coherent formation -- and thus protecting the caster(s) -- impossible.

[congealeddgtllvr]

LexXxich wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

Hmm, after playing through the demo a few more times, I think the recharge time on heal is fine (for normal difficulty, anyway). It encourages you to think more about when you heal instead of just spamming it.

No. It "encourages" you to not get hit, since the only heal spell is an emergency button. I understand the need to bring Warriors and Rogue up to level, but it made mage's party buffs almost useless in comparison.

What it encourages me to do is kill my enemies before they kill me.  This is the point of combat, the way I see it.  In Origins you didn't really have to worry about actually killing your enemies if you brought Wynne and enough potions along; they would eventually fall over from exhaustion.  It was boring.

Modifié par congealeddgtllvr, 28 février 2011 - 09:14 .

[ReallyRue]

congealeddgtllvr wrote...

LexXxich wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

Hmm, after playing through the demo a few more times, I think the recharge time on heal is fine (for normal difficulty, anyway). It encourages you to think more about when you heal instead of just spamming it.

No. It "encourages" you to not get hit, since the only heal spell is an emergency button. I understand the need to bring Warriors and Rogue up to level, but it made mage's party buffs almost useless in comparison.

What it encourages me to do is kill my enemies before they kill me.  This is the point of combat, the way I see it.  In Origins you didn't really have to worry about actually killing your enemies if you brought Wynne and enough potions along; they would eventually fall over from exhaustion.  It was boring.

It also encourages you to make use of all the warrior/rogues' buff talents, instead of relying on mage heals/potions and auto-attacking your way to victory.

[congealeddgtllvr]

ReallyRue wrote...

It also encourages you to make use of all the warrior/rogues' buff talents, instead of relying on mage heals/potions and auto-attacking your way to victory.

Yeah this is what I meant by "killing my enemies," focusing on offensive talents and making sure they work efficiently.  I think it is an overall improvement.  

[Morroian]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Not get hit? Did I miss a feature in DA2 that allows you to actively avoid getting hit?

Never mind that the new combat system seems designed around flashy nonsense and running around in circles and jumping and flipping about like a circus freak, thus making any kind of coherent formation -- and thus protecting the caster(s) -- impossible.

The battlefield control options across all classes are actually greater.

[Killjoy Cutter]

congealeddgtllvr wrote...

LexXxich wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

Hmm, after playing through the demo a few more times, I think the recharge time on heal is fine (for normal difficulty, anyway). It encourages you to think more about when you heal instead of just spamming it.

No. It "encourages" you to not get hit, since the only heal spell is an emergency button. I understand the need to bring Warriors and Rogue up to level, but it made mage's party buffs almost useless in comparison.

What it encourages me to do is kill my enemies before they kill me.  This is the point of combat, the way I see it.  In Origins you didn't really have to worry about actually killing your enemies if you brought Wynne and enough potions along; they would eventually fall over from exhaustion.  It was boring.

Oddly enough, in DA:O, my style of play was to kill the enemy as quickly as possible, even with all that available. 

What I don't want is a game "encouraging" me to do any damn thing, especially through silly design choices.

[hekalite]

I'm not sure I understand the logic that a longer cooldown timer encourages you to not get hit and yet, this is not seen as too long.  The way I look at it is that with the timer being so long, it really does force a different play style.  That's ok by me, I can deal with that, but it really does minimize the potential of a more offensive lineup.  If the player wants to rely on healing instead of higher defense values to maximize damage, that doesn't seem like it will work very well.

For me, the cooldown time was long enough that I basically wrote off healing as useless.  If I can't rely on healing being available when I need it, why should I invest the points in that tree at all.  It just seems much more effective to spend those points making sure I don't take the damage at all, be it with CC or damage potential or whatever.

[Kyriani Agrivar]

Personally I think the longer cooldown on heals puts more emphasis on party buffs to mitigate damage as opposed to simply being reactive to it. Heal spamming can make up for sloppy play. but consider this... with a bit of cunning early on you can have 50% defense quite easily on every toon... later levels you may not want to invest that much cunning to maintain it... but buffs like a fully upgraded arcane armor provides 20% defense to everyone in your group along with some elemental resistance. That's a very big deal and it will lessen incoming damage considerably. Other buffs like elemental weapons and haste turn those rogues and warriors into even more devastating damage dealers.

Not for nothing but in DA:O I would immediately set tactics for all my characters to use the weakest healing potion I had whenever they hit 40% hp. In most parts of the game I would have 2 mages with me both of which had the heal spell and one of which (or sometimes both) had group heal. My mage tactics (with a mod to expand them a bit) were set to cast Heal on anyone below 70% hp and group heal any time at least 2 members were below 75% hp. needless to say the regenerate spell was largely negligible with that kind of healing coverage and it was good enough that I could go afk at a load screen during transit and come back surrounded by the remains of an encounter that I popped into with no one dead or injured and the mobs ready to be looted.

The constant heals made up for just about any short coming and I can see why bioware curtailed it this time. That wont likely be the case anymore with longer heal cooldowns and longer potion cooldowns that arent on seperate timers for each level of potion. I also see the potential impact of the buff spells and how they have changed (haste not being a sustain but rather a more tactical cooldown for example) can make up for the lesser focus on healing and potions.

Is it a change from the previous pay style? Certainly. But I think it will foster much more strategic play and decision making with this new style.

[Sabishii123]

As long as they still have haste healing can take as long as it wants! Huzzah!!!

[Dark Knight X]

Blood Mage and Force Mage for me!!

I do hope that other characters will actually treat you as a Blood Mage this time...........

[Graunt]

Assassin Rex wrote...

Does anyone here agree with me that the heal spell takes too long to recharge. Either they increase the amount of health points it restores or they increase the recharge time. Anyways Magic for life. Always a mage. Forever a mage.
Force Mage here I come.

Gotta make the Spirit Healer tree appealing in some way right?

The thing some folk here seem to completely dismiss is that while yes
you can't cast damage spells while the healing aura is active, there is
nothing preventing you from turning it off once your heals are on
cooldown (assuming you dont need to use any of the other spells in the
spirit healer tree) so you can nuke a bit and turn it back on when you
want to heal again.

That's assuming the mana that was "stored" to keep the aura up is instantly returned after it's deactivated.  Otherwise, you not only have to regen that mana back up, you need to be past what you lost if you need to activate the aura and heal again.  If you don't regen the mana lost from the first aura all the way back to full, and then when you activate the aura it eats yet another 20% of your max mana, that's such a waste.

A horribly inefficient "tactic" isn't something most people are going to bother with.

I also like that potions have a longer cooldown.  I think constantly drinking potions makes for incredibly boring combat.

Compared to not having any stamina/mana and just auto attacking?  Ok...

Modifié par Graunt, 28 février 2011 - 11:18 .