926 réponses à ce sujet

[Kyriani Agrivar]

Jarradane wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm rather preplexed by the notion of the game being designed to discourage certain playstyles that I never engaged in anyway and never imagined that others would.

Of course, the style of play that people claim is being encouraged instead is also one that has absolutely no appeal to me either.


But what really makes me sit back and wonder is this notion that you need the game design to guide you to a certain style of play.  Really?  You can't just do it on your own, you need the game to give you reasons?  Really?

Yes, and this is what Bioware is doing.  They couldn't make "tanks" worthwhile in the first game, but want you to get stuck with the whole Tank/Healer/Damage paradigm, just because they are stuck with some generic MMORPG mindset, yet are removing so many other options that should be available by default.  You never needed a "tank" in traditional roleplaying for anything.  You also didn't need a healer, but it did help downtime.

Agreed.
I guess it's because it's the easiest semblence of strategy that can be forced, and you have to keep in mind that children play these games too.

Considering the rating on DA:O and DA2... No "child" under 17 should be playing them and if they are their parents are either quite confident of their child's maturity or unaware that their child is playing these games. If they are unaware I would ask just how their child came to own said games then.

[Jarradane]

Kyriani Agrivar wrote...

Jarradane wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm rather preplexed by the notion of the game being designed to discourage certain playstyles that I never engaged in anyway and never imagined that others would.

Of course, the style of play that people claim is being encouraged instead is also one that has absolutely no appeal to me either.


But what really makes me sit back and wonder is this notion that you need the game design to guide you to a certain style of play.  Really?  You can't just do it on your own, you need the game to give you reasons?  Really?

Yes, and this is what Bioware is doing.  They couldn't make "tanks" worthwhile in the first game, but want you to get stuck with the whole Tank/Healer/Damage paradigm, just because they are stuck with some generic MMORPG mindset, yet are removing so many other options that should be available by default.  You never needed a "tank" in traditional roleplaying for anything.  You also didn't need a healer, but it did help downtime.

Agreed.
I guess it's because it's the easiest semblence of strategy that can be forced, and you have to keep in mind that children play these games too.

Considering the rating on DA:O and DA2... No "child" under 17 should be playing them and if they are their parents are either quite confident of their child's maturity or unaware that their child is playing these games. If they are unaware I would ask just how their child came to own said games then.

Yup, so would I.
But the rating is independent of the games development.
My friends and I have been playing Halo since release, and i'm only 19 this year.
Regardless of the rating, underage players do pick them up, it's not like all of them are content to sit home and play Viva Pinata for 8 years until they can legally purchase Dragon Age.

[Graunt]

Kyriani Agrivar wrote...

Jarradane wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm rather preplexed by the notion of the game being designed to discourage certain playstyles that I never engaged in anyway and never imagined that others would.

Of course, the style of play that people claim is being encouraged instead is also one that has absolutely no appeal to me either.


But what really makes me sit back and wonder is this notion that you need the game design to guide you to a certain style of play.  Really?  You can't just do it on your own, you need the game to give you reasons?  Really?

Yes, and this is what Bioware is doing.  They couldn't make "tanks" worthwhile in the first game, but want you to get stuck with the whole Tank/Healer/Damage paradigm, just because they are stuck with some generic MMORPG mindset, yet are removing so many other options that should be available by default.  You never needed a "tank" in traditional roleplaying for anything.  You also didn't need a healer, but it did help downtime.

Agreed.
I guess it's because it's the easiest semblence of strategy that can be forced, and you have to keep in mind that children play these games too.

Considering the rating on DA:O and DA2... No "child" under 17 should be playing them and if they are their parents are either quite confident of their child's maturity or unaware that their child is playing these games. If they are unaware I would ask just how their child came to own said games then.

I think maybe by saying "children" we can safely assume anyone between the age of 12 - 18.  Many "children" are playing games where things explode or are shot.  It's actually pretty unfair to simply say that only children have low attention spans or have little desire to put any kind of thought into their actions while gaming though.  Ironically, these kinds of players shouldn't be playing an "RPG" in the first place.  But hey, who cares as long as you're bringing in the FPS crowd sales right?

Modifié par Graunt, 01 mars 2011 - 05:11 .

[Morroian]

Graunt wrote...

Yes, and this is what Bioware is doing.  They couldn't make "tanks" worthwhile in the first game, but want you to get stuck with the whole Tank/Healer/Damage paradigm, just because they are stuck with some generic MMORPG mindset, yet are removing so many other options that should be available by default.  You never needed a "tank" in traditional roleplaying for anything.  You also didn't need a healer, but it did help downtime.

But IMHO they're trying to get away from this to a certain extent with all classes having different forms of crowd control and by making healers less worthwhile.

[Qays]

Yes, and this is what Bioware is doing. They couldn't make "tanks" worthwhile in the first game, but want you to get stuck with the whole Tank/Healer/Damage paradigm, just because they are stuck with some generic MMORPG mindset, yet are removing so many other options that should be available by default. You never needed a "tank" in traditional roleplaying for anything. You also didn't need a healer, but it did help downtime.

Have we forgotten that healing in DA2 is severely nerfed?

[Addai]

Morroian wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Yes, and this is what Bioware is doing.  They couldn't make "tanks" worthwhile in the first game, but want you to get stuck with the whole Tank/Healer/Damage paradigm, just because they are stuck with some generic MMORPG mindset, yet are removing so many other options that should be available by default.  You never needed a "tank" in traditional roleplaying for anything.  You also didn't need a healer, but it did help downtime.

But IMHO they're trying to get away from this to a certain extent with all classes having different forms of crowd control and by making healers less worthwhile.

@Morroian, I'll give them a little more faith than that.  They say they want to have the party be inter-dependent which will probably work best mixing classes, but with fewer companions we have to do that anyway.  But until I see otherwise, I'm gonna say there will still be lots of room for individual playstyle.  Even if I have to turn the difficulty down, I plan to play as I want to and not according to any template. edit to add: For one thing, the game devs play games, too.  I can't imagine they set out to make a boring restrictive game?

Modifié par Addai67, 01 mars 2011 - 05:50 .

[themageguy]

im really hoping that blood mage can drain life from enemies as well as allies. Thatd make blood mage so useful coz u have to ways to replenish ur health.
Someone posted somewhere that with force mages spells theres no need for stonefist. I disagree. Force mage is for groups. Knocking groups about. I think i heard mike mention in the live gameplay vid that fist of the maker does little damage but knocks everyone about.(with the friendly fire i wonder if force spells will knock about the party too?)
That being said. Stonefist is single target and by the looks of it can dish out alot of damage. I know i'll be using it. Even peter thomas said he used it often.
I cant wait to play this game. My first playthrough will be a guinea pig mage, testing out how many levels i can reach, how many tomes there are and unlocking specs. That way my second playthrough will rock (literally as i am a big fan of the primal web)

[DarthWo1f]

If they really wanted DA 2 to be like ME, then they should have made 6 classes, Warrior, rogue, mage, Warrior/rogue, warrior/mage, mage/roque. The destiny trailer Hawke would be a "vanguard".

Blood mage in the first game was able to suck the life from allies, but it treated enemies more for damaging.

[themageguy]

hey anyone else notice we dont get any nature damage spells in da2?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Graunt wrote...

Not really.  You can still stack buffs (not *as many* obviously), but it hurts someone who actually has a larger mana pool.

Player A has 250 mana (less damage) and activates two 20% passives. They end up with 150 mana.
Player B has 175 mana (higher damage/healing) and activates two 20% passives. They end up with 105 mana.

Yes, Player A ends up still having "more" mana (maybe enough for 1-2 more spells tops), yet their damage/healing is affected quite a bit.  All you need is enough mana to have two actives up and burn every cooldown as they become available.  If you aren't even using any passives, then either Player should be equal depending on what you're using them for.

Indeed. It makes no sense that the more mana you have the mana it takes to sustain a spell. And as you say, it punishes mages for investing in one of their primary stats instead of putting the points elsewhere.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

But IMHO they're trying to get away from this to a certain extent with all classes having different forms of crowd control and by making healers less worthwhile.

Then why make one of the threee mage specialities not worthwhile instead of giving the mage another more exciting speciality?

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 mars 2011 - 07:35 .

[Crocodiles]

did you guys see the blood mage video in the spoiler thread?

[Buffy-Summers]

Almost everything Bioware did to the mage was a mistake in my opinion

The sustained costs, healing cool down, having to use a sustained to use any spirit healing spells, lack of arcane warrior.

Every single decision in my opinion is a negative

[Smerpy]

What about that skill that was in the trailer, where hands come out from the space, pulling the enemy apart.

Is it a part of Mage ?

[Le Diable]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Almost everything Bioware did to the mage was a mistake in my opinion

The sustained costs, healing cool down, having to use a sustained to use any spirit healing spells, lack of arcane warrior.

Every single decision in my opinion is a negative

I agree with all of the concerns but with one, The Arcane Warrior specializatioon will just not fit into the story. It is a lost legacy and unlocked in the elven ruins by the warden commander of ferelden.

But if one did ask in any way it could be unlocked i wonder if they can create a path where hawke too would be able to unlock arcane warrior.

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

It's a special deathblow animation for Crushing Prison. It's specifically for Orges I think.

[Le Diable]

Smerpy wrote...

What about that skill that was in the trailer, where hands come out from the space, pulling the enemy apart.

Is it a part of Mage ?

Yes it is a skill
but i doubt if it is just for the mage.

It might be a hawk skill applicable to hawke alone

He uses the dragon claws to rip his enemies.

[Le Diable]

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

It's a special deathblow animation for Crushing Prison. It's specifically for Orges I think.

I dont think so

He uses it for the Qunari in the trailor and he uses it in the demo to
We only do not have access i guess

It should be a hawke specific kill
I did be pissed off to the core if it is just an animation.

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

Peter Thomas wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Hey Peter in the Destiny trailer Hawke uses what appears to be blood magic to rip his foe in half, but I've heard other people say it wasn't blood magic and instead was crushing prison. Can you tell us the tree it really belongs to? Thanks much{smilie}

asking again.

That was a vfx and animation used for the Crushing Prison deathblow on the Ogre in some of the demos.

Here's the quote. Okay, it may not be just for Orges.

[Graunt]

Qays wrote...

Yes, and this is what Bioware is doing. They couldn't make "tanks" worthwhile in the first game, but want you to get stuck with the whole Tank/Healer/Damage paradigm, just because they are stuck with some generic MMORPG mindset, yet are removing so many other options that should be available by default. You never needed a "tank" in traditional roleplaying for anything. You also didn't need a healer, but it did help downtime.

Have we forgotten that healing in DA2 is severely nerfed?

Have we forgotten that one of only three Mage specs is devoted entirely to healing?  You know, we haven't actually seen what all of the Spirit Healer skills do yet, but it more than likely has a group heal, a healing over time spell and global reductions on healing cooldowns.  If you want any real healing you're gong to be forced to invest at least 3-4 points into this tree.  Considering there's only three specializations anyway, it might not be much of an issue, but it's still ushering you towards a specific area.

I can't imagine they set out to make a boring restrictive game?

See: Mass Effect 2 streamlining.  One person's idea of boring is another person's idea of "accessibility".  What saved that game was actually having good, and often challenging gameplay.  This is why I still feel like Bioware's real RPG of 2011 won't be released until Mass Effect 3 and that DA2 is just an apetizer for the RPG starved until April (hopefully), May and then this fall.

im really hoping that blood mage can drain life from enemies as well as
allies. Thatd make blood mage so useful coz u have to ways to replenish
ur health.
Someone posted somewhere that with force mages spells
theres no need for stonefist. I disagree. Force mage is for groups.
Knocking groups about. I think i heard mike mention in the live gameplay
vid that fist of the maker does little damage but knocks everyone
about.(with the friendly fire i wonder if force spells will knock about
the party too?)

As I said previously, the Force spells better be able to interact with other spells, or do more than simply shove enemies away.  Otherwise, all you'll get is a tree full of fluff, yet "cool looking" spells that are there only as panic buttons.  This is actually quite annoying though when you're trying to focus fire with melee groups, or use AoE abilities.  That makes Force look not so hot, and then you have Spirit Healer (bleh) and Blood Mage (...).  Unless there's at least one redeeming skill in each tree that sets it apart and makes them worth dumping into, the specializations seem like just another tree and not really all that special.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 mars 2011 - 08:35 .

[Le Diable]

Crocodiles wrote...

did you guys see the blood mage video in the spoiler thread?

can you please post the link here

[themageguy]

please crocodiles. i couldnt find it.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Bioware needs to do something to make Spirit Healer more interesting.

Ok, so they disallow offensive spells and require the Healing Aura to be activated to use Spirit Healer spells. At least make the aura do something else like:
1) Slow/Burn/Weaken demons and undead.
2) Buff the Mage that has the healing aura activate. Increase his magic resistance and damage resistance.
3) Make any buffs he casts while the healing aura is active last twice as long.
4) Make his staff attacks do extra spirit damage.
5) Make the mage himself heal VERY rapidly.
6) Reduce his cooldowns for all buffs.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[Crocodiles]

 Here's the blood mage fight www.youtube.com/watch

[themageguy]

thanks heaps