926 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwaedoliaeth]

No trailer-like Hawke fighting mage? I kinda hoped for that specialization and just three of them for each class? That's a shame. Oh and by the way, it would be nice to have some art in the 'classes' page, not this in-game picture.

[Chrumpek]

I ended our argue, so why are you continuing?

Meh anyways to again clarify to you - if I didn't say "not nightmare nope" knowing how it goes on boards people would go ape**** that nightmare this nightmare that etc.

Why I said "tho hard is still viable as possible"? To explain to people that hard is still hard and not easy mode which means that this group having only melees can handle the game on higher difficulties and not only on easy.

You on the other hand started assuming and reading more in it then you should or just plainly didn't get the sense, proving how people will go about nightmare is the shizz point.

This is so pointless - I wrote one thing, you didn't get it, let's not waste our energy and time for this nonsense really. You're not helping this thread in anyway by proving to me what should I do or not with my difficulty, composition or anything considering this matter.

I say lay the i-guns and internet justice mentality.

[Matroska]

Graunt wrote...
 Tanks were worthless in DA:O anyway. 

Is this just opinion or a widely accepted fact? Tanks seemed pretty useful to me given how quickly mages would get bogged down in enemies and be overwhelmed whenever my tank died. Or is it more that there isn't a great way to keep tanks alive against a powerful enemy (since healing will run out fairly quickly) and so you may as well just focus on damage dealing?

[Emzamination]

Teclo wrote...

Graunt wrote...
 Tanks were worthless in DA:O anyway. 

Is this just opinion or a widely accepted fact? Tanks seemed pretty useful to me given how quickly mages would get bogged down in enemies and be overwhelmed whenever my tank died. Or is it more that there isn't a great way to keep tanks alive against a powerful enemy (since healing will run out fairly quickly) and so you may as well just focus on damage dealing?

Its just an opinion ser

If one person's tank can last 10 minutes against mobs of darkspawn with a ogre boss and your tank falls in the first few minutes then your spec failed and you failed as a leader so its back to the drawing board for you.

[Graunt]

Emzamination wrote...

Teclo wrote...

Graunt wrote...
 Tanks were worthless in DA:O anyway. 

Is this just opinion or a widely accepted fact? Tanks seemed pretty useful to me given how quickly mages would get bogged down in enemies and be overwhelmed whenever my tank died. Or is it more that there isn't a great way to keep tanks alive against a powerful enemy (since healing will run out fairly quickly) and so you may as well just focus on damage dealing?

Its just an opinion ser

If one person's tank can last 10 minutes against mobs of darkspawn with a ogre boss and your tank falls in the first few minutes then your spec failed and you failed as a leader so its back to the drawing board for you.

Did I say I had issues with a tank surviving?  I did not.  The only time you actually needed anyone to "tank" anything was against a boss, and the only skills you really should not be without were both Threaten and Taunt.  After that, absolutely NO "tanking" talents were worth it over simply speccing the Warrior as a Dual-Wielder.  

Outside of boss fights, having a "proper" tank spec was an utter waste of space.  Not only were they terrible at holding threat unless you waited 10 seconds every single group, everything took so much longer to kill even if you didn't have to wait for the rest of your party to engage.  

Maybe I should have specified that "Protection" or "Standard" Warrior tanks were worthless, because Taunt was used frequently, but it was still being used by a Warrior completely specced to deal damage.  Arcane Warriors could tank better than Warriors on boss fights as well.

And before anyone starts talking about difficulties, this is on Nightmare.  

This is why the default heal spell is on such a long cooldown and why Aveline took so much less damage (skills obviously, but the difference is huge).  Bioware intends for you to play a properly specced tank OR they expect you to heavily invest in the Spirit Healer tree.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 mars 2011 - 11:38 .

[Emzamination]

Graunt wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Teclo wrote...

Graunt wrote...
 Tanks were worthless in DA:O anyway. 

Is this just opinion or a widely accepted fact? Tanks seemed pretty useful to me given how quickly mages would get bogged down in enemies and be overwhelmed whenever my tank died. Or is it more that there isn't a great way to keep tanks alive against a powerful enemy (since healing will run out fairly quickly) and so you may as well just focus on damage dealing?

Its just an opinion ser

If one person's tank can last 10 minutes against mobs of darkspawn with a ogre boss and your tank falls in the first few minutes then your spec failed and you failed as a leader so its back to the drawing board for you.

Did I say I had issues with a tank surviving?  I did not.  The only time you actually needed anyone to "tank" anything was against a boss, and the only skills you really should not be without were both Threaten and Taunt.  After that, absolutely NO "tanking" talents were worth it over simply speccing the Warrior as a Dual-Wielder.  

Outside of boss fights, having a "proper" tank spec was an utter waste of space.  Not only were they terrible at holding threat unless you waited 10 seconds every single group, everything took so much longer to kill even if you didn't have to wait for the rest of your part to engage.

Rogues and mages against mobs with no tank? Most definitely if your playing on casual or normal.

[Graunt]

Emzamination wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Teclo wrote...

Graunt wrote...
 Tanks were worthless in DA:O anyway. 

Is this just opinion or a widely accepted fact? Tanks seemed pretty useful to me given how quickly mages would get bogged down in enemies and be overwhelmed whenever my tank died. Or is it more that there isn't a great way to keep tanks alive against a powerful enemy (since healing will run out fairly quickly) and so you may as well just focus on damage dealing?

Its just an opinion ser

If one person's tank can last 10 minutes against mobs of darkspawn with a ogre boss and your tank falls in the first few minutes then your spec failed and you failed as a leader so its back to the drawing board for you.

Did I say I had issues with a tank surviving?  I did not.  The only time you actually needed anyone to "tank" anything was against a boss, and the only skills you really should not be without were both Threaten and Taunt.  After that, absolutely NO "tanking" talents were worth it over simply speccing the Warrior as a Dual-Wielder.  

Outside of boss fights, having a "proper" tank spec was an utter waste of space.  Not only were they terrible at holding threat unless you waited 10 seconds every single group, everything took so much longer to kill even if you didn't have to wait for the rest of your part to engage.

Rogues and mages against mobs with no tank? Most definitely if your playing on casual or normal.

Read what is written in my post (I was probably adding a bit more while you were replying).  And just FYI you can beat the game solo, and you can also "Tank" (avoid) with a Rogue.

Chrumpek wrote...
I like grasping at straws.

I know.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 mars 2011 - 11:44 .

[Matroska]

Isn't an evasive rogue tank meant to be really held back by the fact they're not so good at dealing damage and so they can't hold aggro? Apparently two-handed weapon tanks are meant to be good simply because they get immunity to knock down earlier and are great at holding aggro.

[Emzamination]

Graunt wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Teclo wrote...

Graunt wrote...
 Tanks were worthless in DA:O anyway. 

Is this just opinion or a widely accepted fact? Tanks seemed pretty useful to me given how quickly mages would get bogged down in enemies and be overwhelmed whenever my tank died. Or is it more that there isn't a great way to keep tanks alive against a powerful enemy (since healing will run out fairly quickly) and so you may as well just focus on damage dealing?

Its just an opinion ser

If one person's tank can last 10 minutes against mobs of darkspawn with a ogre boss and your tank falls in the first few minutes then your spec failed and you failed as a leader so its back to the drawing board for you.

Did I say I had issues with a tank surviving?  I did not.  The only time you actually needed anyone to "tank" anything was against a boss, and the only skills you really should not be without were both Threaten and Taunt.  After that, absolutely NO "tanking" talents were worth it over simply speccing the Warrior as a Dual-Wielder.  

Outside of boss fights, having a "proper" tank spec was an utter waste of space.  Not only were they terrible at holding threat unless you waited 10 seconds every single group, everything took so much longer to kill even if you didn't have to wait for the rest of your part to engage.

Rogues and mages against mobs with no tank? Most definitely if your playing on casual or normal.

Read what is written.  And just FYI you can beat the game solo, and you can also "Tank" (avoid) with a Rogue.

Chrumpek wrote...
I like grasping at straws.

I know.

Beat nightmare solo?

Either you glitched,cheated or you ser must be one Epic tactical genious.

[Graunt]

Emzamination wrote...
Beat nightmare solo?

Either you glitched,cheated or you ser must be one Epic tactical genious.

Lets not start down this line of debate -- because there is none, it's a proven fact that you can beat the game solo on Nightmare.  There are plenty of threads on the subject.  It's VERY easy to solo as an Arcane Warrior, and not quite as easy, but entirely possible as a Rogue.  You can do the same as a Warrior, but it's much slower overall and requires more gear.

Isn't an evasive rogue tank meant to be really held back by the fact
they're not so good at dealing damage and so they can't hold aggro?
Apparently two-handed weapon tanks are meant to be good simply because
they get immunity to knock down earlier and are great at holding aggro.

When I played with a Rogue "tank", it was really gimmicky.  I used my Mages as nothing but buffbots to enhance the Rogue's damage as much as possible.  I wondered how slow it would be, but it wasn't at all.  You also aren't really that far behind going all DEX.  

Modifié par Graunt, 01 mars 2011 - 12:09 .

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

Nah, I could easily beat Nightmare solo with an AW, if I cared too. I had to keep checking my difficulty when playing an AW 'cos I couldn't believe it was Nightmare.

[Emzamination]

Graunt wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
Beat nightmare solo?

Either you glitched,cheated or you ser must be one Epic tactical genious.

Lets not start down this line of debate -- because there is none, it's a proven fact that you can beat the game solo on Nightmare.  There are plenty of threads on the subject.  It's VERY easy to solo as an Arcane Warrior, and not quite as easy, but entirely possible as a Rogue.  You can do the same as a Warrior, but it's much slower overall and requires more gear.

Isn't an evasive rogue tank meant to be really held back by the fact
they're not so good at dealing damage and so they can't hold aggro?
Apparently two-handed weapon tanks are meant to be good simply because
they get immunity to knock down earlier and are great at holding aggro.

When I played with a Rogue "tank", it was really gimmicky.  I used my Mages as nothing but buffbots to enhance the Rogue's damage as much as possible.  I wondered how slow it would be, but it wasn't at all.  You also aren't really that far behind going all DEX.  

Video of it happening on a console from start to finish or it didn't happen .

[Graunt]

Emzamination wrote...
Video of it happening on a console from start to finish or it didn't happen .

Oh, well if you're saying console, I have no idea.  It's probably just as possible, but I'd have to say it would definitely be harder simply because of the controls.

[SwedishSammich]

tried all the classes on the demo, but mage seemed the best for me :3

[GammaRayJim]

Never having been a fan of playing the mage, was always a warrior type player myself, I have to say that after playing the demo I am very much interested in playing a mage in this one.

[Static Jak]

I hope a dev lets us know if a Mage can use Light Armour before release. I'd hate to play through the game only an hour in to realise that all I've got to choose from are Robes.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

There are no class restrictions on armour, only stat restrictions. If you pump strength, con and magic, you'll be able to wear heavy armour.

If you pump magic, dex and cun, you'll be able to wear light armour.

Otherwise, short of special armour, it's robes as far as I'm aware.

[Killjoy Cutter]

So it sounds like the mage in DA2 is set up as if you're going to build to a specialty every time?

Hmmm... I don't like the sounds of that one bit. I prefer generalists.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So it sounds like the mage in DA2 is set up as if you're going to build to a specialty every time?

Hmmm... I don't like the sounds of that one bit. I prefer generalists.

Yeah, if you look at the talent descriptions you see the abilities that give mana regeneration pretty much require every spell in a tree  as well as most upgrades so you are forced to specialize if you want good mana regenertion and the spells to be as powerful as they can be.

http://social.biowar...index/6090138/1

On the other hand, if you don't specialize you'll have more spells (though less powerful) and so have more spells that are not on cooldown. So you'll be more likely to be able to cast something you want to cast.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 mars 2011 - 04:15 .

[Graunt]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So it sounds like the mage in DA2 is set up as if you're going to build to a specialty every time?

Hmmm... I don't like the sounds of that one bit. I prefer generalists.

Yeah, if you look at the talent descriptions you see the abilities that give mana regeneration pretty much require every spell in a tree  as well as most upgrades so you are forced to specialize if you want good mana regenertion and the spells to be as powerful as they can be.

http://social.biowar...index/6090138/1

On the other hand, if you don't specialize you'll have more spells (though less powerful) and so have more spells that are not on cooldown. So you'll be more likely to be able to cast something you want to cast.

Well nevermind.  They don't actually require any specific upgrade, but I missed the "requires X in Y tree" portion.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 mars 2011 - 04:27 .

[Static Jak]

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

There are no class restrictions on armour, only stat restrictions. If you pump strength, con and magic, you'll be able to wear heavy armour.

If you pump magic, dex and cun, you'll be able to wear light armour.

Otherwise, short of special armour, it's robes as far as I'm aware.

Sounds good to me. I'm willing to sacrifice some Magic or Willpower for a nice suit.
Thanks.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

The Mana Regen talents each require an 8 point investment. So, if the thing about being heavily invested in 4 trees is correct, I should be possibly to get all three... but what kind of advantage is this? I didn't have any problem staying on top of mana in the demo... although I think the mana regen rate ion the actual game is lower?

[Graunt]

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

The Mana Regen talents each require an 8 point investment. So, if the thing about being heavily invested in 4 trees is correct, I should be possibly to get all three... but what kind of advantage is this? I didn't have any problem staying on top of mana in the demo... although I think the mana regen rate ion the actual game is lower?

Some are drawing the conclusion that mana/stamina rates were also jacked up in the demo.  At one point I was starting to "get low" on mana near the last fight by burning every cooldown as soon as it was up just to see how mana was.  But I also didn't invest a single point into Willpower.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

Graunt wrote...

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

The Mana Regen talents each require an 8 point investment. So, if the thing about being heavily invested in 4 trees is correct, I should be possibly to get all three... but what kind of advantage is this? I didn't have any problem staying on top of mana in the demo... although I think the mana regen rate ion the actual game is lower?

Some are drawing the conclusion that mana/stamina rates were also jacked up in the demo.  At one point I was starting to "get low" on mana near the last fight by burning every cooldown as soon as it was up just to see how mana was.  But I also didn't invest a single point into Willpower.

I didn't bother with Willpower either. I suppose it's only really something you'd need if you were holding lots of modals. From what I'v read, neither HP or Mana/Stamina increase with level independant of attribute investment, although I'll check this out when I get home by leveling Hawke, comparing both before and after.

Cun is something that really bothers me. If you're not willing to invest in it every level, it's useless aside from meeting armour/weapon requirments.

[Shinimas]

Cun also increases crit damage.

I guess spell cost doesn't increase with levels, in this case I think I'll do with raw mana regen and blood magic convertions (which I'm sure we will have). Force resistance will come through Rock Armor (which will put me around Warrior's armor-wise) and magic will make me highly resistant to elemental force, I noticed that damage reduction helps greatly with resistance to those pesky knockbacks/downs, my low-Str Aveline was more resistant to them than all-Str Hawke. To hell with Dex, I think I'll just invest in Death Hex and be off with it. Con? To hell with it, imo, just kite around until Taunt cools off.

So I guess I'll just pump up Magic, just like in DA:O. That's in theory.