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[Sir Edric]

Gwaedoliaeth wrote...

No trailer-like Hawke fighting mage? I kinda hoped for that specialization and just three of them for each class? That's a shame.

Is this true? I heared that this time mage had some fighting abilities

Modifié par Vrex_12, 01 mars 2011 - 05:14 .

[axa89]

Shinimas wrote...

magic will make me highly resistant to elemental force

That would be strength (fortitude).

[Eludajae]

I see many people are coming to the realization that you will not just be able to dump 80% of your stat points into Magic and the rest in to Will, and nuke your way to victory. It is very important you use Cunning, and even some dexterity now. I for one like that I need to really think about where I put stat points.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

Cun damage isn't really that big a deal without a higher crit chance.

Rock Armour with Galvanism will either give you 50% DR or 32% DR which is nothing to sneeze at... it's probably why I'll go Primal rather than Elemental to begin with... Also Golem's Fist + Force mage should only need to do 2% of total health to knock them flying.

EDIT:

Eludajae wrote...

I see many people are coming to the realization that you will not just be able to dump 80% of your stat points into Magic and the rest in to Will, and nuke your way to victory. It is very important you use Cunning, and even some dexterity now. I for one like that I need to really think about where I put stat points.

CUN is onyl worth it if it's your secondary stat already or are going to go 1 magic 2 cunning 2 magic 1 cunning for your entire career.  I'd rather just go magic and nuke everything *thumbs up*

Modifié par Wolf_in_the_Meadow, 01 mars 2011 - 05:37 .

[Le Diable]

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

Cun damage isn't really that big a deal without a higher crit chance.

Rock Armour with Galvanism will either give you 50% DR or 32% DR which is nothing to sneeze at... it's probably why I'll go Primal rather than Elemental to begin with... Also Golem's Fist + Force mage should only need to do 2% of total health to knock them flying.

EDIT:

Eludajae wrote...

I see many people are coming to the realization that you will not just be able to dump 80% of your stat points into Magic and the rest in to Will, and nuke your way to victory. It is very important you use Cunning, and even some dexterity now. I for one like that I need to really think about where I put stat points.

CUN is onyl worth it if it's your secondary stat already or are going to go 1 magic 2 cunning 2 magic 1 cunning for your entire career.  I'd rather just go magic and nuke everything *thumbs up*

You have to use your cunning according to me
Believe me i played NM mode in DAO with less cunning and higher Willpower and heavy cunning and less willpower
Guess who won
High Cunning and Medium willpower as i stunned or freezed or brittled or put to sleep more enemies in such a setting

First preference is Magic
Second being Cunning
Third being Will Power

nothing else needed for the mage

[Le Diable]

Le Diable wrote...

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...

Cun damage isn't really that big a deal without a higher crit chance.

Rock Armour with Galvanism will either give you 50% DR or 32% DR which is nothing to sneeze at... it's probably why I'll go Primal rather than Elemental to begin with... Also Golem's Fist + Force mage should only need to do 2% of total health to knock them flying.

EDIT:

Eludajae wrote...

I see many people are coming to the realization that you will not just be able to dump 80% of your stat points into Magic and the rest in to Will, and nuke your way to victory. It is very important you use Cunning, and even some dexterity now. I for one like that I need to really think about where I put stat points.

CUN is onyl worth it if it's your secondary stat already or are going to go 1 magic 2 cunning 2 magic 1 cunning for your entire career.  I'd rather just go magic and nuke everything *thumbs up*

You have to use your cunning according to me
Believe me i played NM mode in DAO with less cunning and higher Willpower and heavy cunning and less willpower
Guess who won
High Cunning and Medium willpower as i stunned or freezed or brittled or put to sleep more enemies in such a setting

First preference is Magic
Second being Cunning
Third being Will Power

nothing else needed for the mage

unlike a warrior and a rogue
who needs
attack
dexterity
willpower
cunning
and constitution

[Black-Xero]

Le Diable wrote...

nothing else needed for the mage

What about Con if you're a blood mage?

[Le Diable]

Black-Xero wrote...

Le Diable wrote...

nothing else needed for the mage

What about Con if you're a blood mage?

blood mage spells require blood
so if you can siphon or toggle between mana and blood it is no big difference unless and until you want to survive on only life source

i am an arcane warrior blood mage in DAO and DAA with Battle mage specialization

I have no problems
I used blood magic for blood wound and life support nothing else

a few points in constitution does not matter but for a tank and a warrior it means more than to a mage who can nuke...

it all depends on your main character
mine was a mage with blood mage and arcane warrior spec
it was awesome
will miss AW  and  Batlle Mage specialization in DA2

[Le Diable]

Black-Xero wrote...

Le Diable wrote...

nothing else needed for the mage

What about Con if you're a blood mage?

i dont see the adv of a blood mage when you have mana and good health
i always stayed back and used all my mana for spells and then activated Blood magic and then used blood wound
i used a arcane warrior + blood mage specialization for DAO
and i added Battlemage spec for DAO A
it made me super

[Trefecka]

Say, with the +100% damage reduction abilities (upgraded stonewall, barrier), has anyone considered using that to bypass the FF on nightmare mode? Like pull everything with your tank, then stonewall/barrier +fireball/tempest/firestorm/walkingbomb? Cause I'm thinking that might be the new AOE bomb method for mages, instead of the old school Force field + AOE nuke

[Qays]

Have we forgotten that one of only three Mage specs is devoted entirely to healing? You know, we haven't actually seen what all of the Spirit Healer skills do yet, but it more than likely has a group heal, a healing over time spell and global reductions on healing cooldowns. If you want any real healing you're gong to be forced to invest at least 3-4 points into this tree. Considering there's only three specializations anyway, it might not be much of an issue, but it's still ushering you towards a specific area.

So you think BioWare wants to force every group to have a Spirit Healer?

[Aradace]

I can actually be a "battlemage" now without having to be an AW to do it. Love DA2 Mages

[Ares_mito]

Bioware did a great work for rogue main abilities. Rogue characteristic is versatility and they gave this class it. Mage characteristic is knowledge, above all others, but so few specializations are a limit in my opinion, I hope they will release a DLC improving this aspect I'll wait anxiously for it.

[Graunt]

Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote...
I didn't bother with Willpower either. I suppose it's only really something you'd need if you were holding lots of modals. From what I'v read, neither HP or Mana/Stamina increase with level independant of attribute investment, although I'll check this out when I get home by leveling Hawke, comparing both before and after.

Cun is something that really bothers me. If you're not willing to invest in it every level, it's useless aside from meeting armour/weapon requirments.

Hmm, not gaining any health or mana simply by leveling would certainly be different from what's been done traditionally, and makes it seem like by end level we would have characters who would be much weaker compared to how they've been in the past, but it's actually much more realistic in that sense.  Although fine from a gameplay perspective, it never made much sense to me that you were always guaranteed to gain more longevity simply because your adventures taught you that as well as being able to decide where you specialized on the way.  

It could be though that since the characters already seem to start out quite powerful that you'll end up the same in the end, the progression is just reversed.  Cunning bothers me too, and I'll probably ignore it on every character other than the Rogue outside of armor requirements, but I'll have to see.  If you do not gain health simply by leveling up, then it may be necessary to go something like 1 Cun, 2 Con per level for Aveline (sans requirements), although pure Con may work as well.

Cun also increases crit damage.

That's probably the least consideration people have for bonuses.  Outside of Rogues, crit damage won't really matter that much.  There are a few skills that briefly give you 100% crit chance, but since those are usually 5 - 10 seconds and on a 30 - 60 second cooldown, it would be smarter to simply up your raw damage or crit chance.

Le Diable wrote...
You have to use your cunning according to me
Believe me i played NM mode in DAO with less cunning and higher Willpower and heavy cunning and less willpower
Guess who won
High Cunning and Medium willpower as i stunned or freezed or brittled or put to sleep more enemies in such a setting

First preference is Magic
Second being Cunning
Third being Will Power

nothing else needed for the mage

I don't see how this is relevant at all to DA2 considering the stats work differently.

unlike a warrior and a rogue
who needs
attack
dexterity
willpower
cunning
and constitution

If you're talking about DA:O, a tanking Warrior only needed STR (req) and DEX, nothing else.  You could opt for going STR (req), DEX (req) and the rest CON, but it wasn't necessary.  Melee was DEX (req) and then all STR.  "ATTACK" wasn't something you had to worry about since it was handled through one of the two stats you were raising anyway.  In DA2  I'll still be doing mostly STR for my two-handed Warrior and the rest will just be requirements.  I may end up having to put a point here and there into WIL, but I doubt it, especially with STA potions.  Even if they have a long cooldown, I never even used them in Awakening or the Origins mod.

I can actually be a "battlemage" now without having to be an AW to do it. Love DA2 Mages

Why do you say this?  Why does anyone think the Mage has more "fighting abilities"?  It's just animation sped up, and it's pretty much the same with all of the classes.  The only thing different about them fighting up close is the animation, not the actual damage.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 02:14 .

[frostedwing]

I am so glad that they changed some major things from the first game. Once I saw it I had to share because I even created a thread about one thing that bothered me soooo much.

My original thread is here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/2847873/1#6300696

My fanboy filled mage eyegasm post is as follows lol:
"OMFG! They listened!!!! I just started the demo for Dragon Age 2... I am having an eyegasm!!! THEY FREAKING LISTENED!

Sorry I'm freaking over here. Anyway, started the demo choose the female mage Hawke. First minute of cinematic: lightning bolt assination (then mischievous hands saying F yeah I just did that), close range lightning spell, fire spell, and walk through hurlocks and BAM basically a Scorpion from Mortal Kombat style fire fatality!
Then you get to the next run of them, and say you'll take care of them, AOE fire spell, like fireball I guess.

Then omg not only can you do regular attacks with your stave, you can do them with your hands, in both long and short range!!!!!!!! I can not wait until next Tuesday, already got my pre order in. Plus it's 3 days before my birthday. What a great birthday coincidence! I FREAKING LOVE DRAGON AGE 2, so far!!!!"

[Graunt]

Obervations: You do not gain health, mana or stamina simply from leveling any longer, although I noticed something not quite accurate about this.

At level 1 my Mage had 105 health, 160 mana.  1 WIL gives 5 Stamina or Mana.  I put nothing into WIL, but at level 6 (when they auto level you) I ended up with 14 WIL (the base is 12).  I should have had 170 mana, but I had 190. At level 2 and 3 my mana and health did not change at all, and at level 6 my health was still 106.

Damage scaling from damage attributes per class is huge, but doesn't appear to be linear.  It may be linear per point, but you also gain extra every 5 levels, or every 10 MAG or so maybe.  Gear could have also been a factor, or they simply wanted to blow up scaling at the end similar to the beginning.

At lvl 1 and 13  Magic, Fireball did 65 damage.
At lvl 2 and 16 Magic, Fireball did 75 damage.
At lvl 3 and 19 Magic, Fireball did 80 damage.
At lvl 6 and 27 Magic, Fireball did 265 damage.

Someone was saying Fireball was "garbage" when doing a "DPS" chart.  This is not the case at all.  Firestorm did more damage over time, but Fireball does MORE instantly than what Firestorm does per second, and you are not stuck for three seconds "casting" like you are with Firestorm.  You are free to cast another spell (or move) right away.

Abilities also seem to scale quite differently from one another.  This is especially apparent when looking at single target abilities compared to area of effect.  Mighty Blow for example does a lot more single target damage per STR than Scythe, yet Scythe of course is great for groups.  This should have been obvious, but just throwing it out there.

Here's how the spells looked at the start:

Winter's Grasp - 690 dmg
Fireball - 575 dmg
Crushing Prison - 1,380
Firestorm - 460 per sec (you're rooted for 3-4 seconds)
Cone of Cold - 460

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 03:21 .

[Trefecka]

One thing that might account for the extra mana and damage is the new equipment you get after the auto-level.  Since we can't see what new items are equiped, its hard to make any certain statements.  However, its likely that the spify new staff is stronger than the starter staff, and that might be the cause of the sharp increase in spell damage.  It seems that damage is heavily dependent on equipment, and that might be the case for health/mana as well.

Since its been shown that you only get 5 points of health/mana per con/will, and 1 point of damage/2 damage stats, pumping con/will/damage most likely won't have THAT drastic of an impact. I could be wrong, but the way the items are presented so far it seems that perhaps the best method is just enough magic/willpower/etc to equip the best items, and everything else to cun to boost defense/crit damage.

Modifié par Trefecka, 02 mars 2011 - 04:27 .

[Graunt]

Trefecka wrote...
and 1 point of damage/2 damage stats

No?  If you're talking about the "DPS" listing, then yeah it's closer to 1.5 damage per point, but that seems to only be for auto attacks.  For spells and abilities it's anywhere between 2 - 6 per point.  The impact is significant when dealing with abilities on a cooldown.  Gear may play a larger role in quickly gaining larger boosts at a time, but stats are extremely important.  

The argument about gear making spells so much stronger could also be argued with health pools as well though.  Health seems to be meaningless anyway outside of spell damage.  For physical attacks armor >> defense >>>> health.  If you end up facing a lot of spellcasters, it may simply end up being armor >> health >>>> defense.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 04:44 .

[Aradace]

Graunt wrote...


Why do you say this?  Why does anyone think the Mage has more "fighting abilities"?  It's just animation sped up, and it's pretty much the same with all of the classes.  The only thing different about them fighting up close is the animation, not the actual damage.

Exactly.  In Origins, if you not only wanted to essentially BE a "battlemage" but also FEEL like one, you pretty much needed to take the AW Specialization.  Now, with the new animations and the ability to melee (which can be increased Im sure through a few points in strength if need be.) you can make a "Battlemage" build without having to invest in said specialization.  Im not sure Im explaining it right but its kind of more of an "aesthetic" thing really.

[LexXxich]

Aradace wrote...

Graunt wrote...


Why do you say this?  Why does anyone think the Mage has more "fighting abilities"?  It's just animation sped up, and it's pretty much the same with all of the classes.  The only thing different about them fighting up close is the animation, not the actual damage.

Exactly.  In Origins, if you not only wanted to essentially BE a "battlemage" but also FEEL like one, you pretty much needed to take the AW Specialization.  Now, with the new animations and the ability to melee (which can be increased Im sure through a few points in strength if need be.) you can make a "Battlemage" build without having to invest in said specialization.  Im not sure Im explaining it right but its kind of more of an "aesthetic" thing really.

"Ability to melee" has nothing to do with STR. It's all MAG. Everything damage-wise on mage is MAG dependant.
STR might make you more resistant to Force, but , just like with CUN and DEX, it'll have any noticeable effect  only if you prime it.

On another note. Seeing how damage from abilities grows while leveling, it'll soon make FF absolutely deadly, while enemies' health will scale in line with players' damage.

[Graunt]

Aradace wrote...

Graunt wrote...


Why do you say this?  Why does anyone think the Mage has more "fighting abilities"?  It's just animation sped up, and it's pretty much the same with all of the classes.  The only thing different about them fighting up close is the animation, not the actual damage.

Exactly.  In Origins, if you not only wanted to essentially BE a "battlemage" but also FEEL like one, you pretty much needed to take the AW Specialization.  Now, with the new animations and the ability to melee (which can be increased Im sure through a few points in strength if need be.) you can make a "Battlemage" build without having to invest in said specialization.  Im not sure Im explaining it right but its kind of more of an "aesthetic" thing really.

You aren't doing melee though, you're still swinging your staff around, and the damage you deal is still based off the Magic stat. You're getting confused with animations, nothing has changed.

On another note. Seeing how damage from abilities grows while leveling,
it'll soon make FF absolutely deadly, while enemies' health will scale
in line with players' damage.

Thinking along that line makes me think the "useless" knockback spells from the Force tree (hypothetical) that much better.  Who needs a tank for anything but a boss when you can simply go all ranged, blast everything with area of effect and then knock them all down when they get close, then finish them off?

Chain Lightning/Tempest is looking pretty stellar for Nightmare though simply because they don't hurt allies and will get a pretty good boost from many of the Warrior abilities that you can have a single tank with.  Starting to think Nightmare is going to be all about the "safety" spells, as well as stacking all of the single target bolts.  Not too terribly exciting.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 02:48 .

[Le Diable]

Graunt wrote...

[

Le Diable wrote...
You have to use your cunning according to me
Believe me i played NM mode in DAO with less cunning and higher Willpower and heavy cunning and less willpower
Guess who won
High Cunning and Medium willpower as i stunned or freezed or brittled or put to sleep more enemies in such a setting

First preference is Magic
Second being Cunning
Third being Will Power

nothing else needed for the mage

I don't see how this is relevant at all to DA2 considering the stats work differently.

unlike a warrior and a rogue
who needs
attack
dexterity
willpower
cunning
and constitution

If you're talking about DA:O, a tanking Warrior only needed STR (req) and DEX, nothing else.  You could opt for going STR (req), DEX (req) and the rest CON, but it wasn't necessary.  Melee was DEX (req) and then all STR.  "ATTACK" wasn't something you had to worry about since it was handled through one of the two stats you were raising anyway.  In DA2  I'll still be doing mostly STR for my two-handed Warrior and the rest will just be requirements.  I may end up having to put a point here and there into WIL, but I doubt it, especially with STA potions.  Even if they have a long cooldown, I never even used them in Awakening or the Origins mod.

Cunning gives you battle field awareness and essential tactical usefulness. A high cunning increases damage especially for rogues and opens up coercion routes... for a mage it increases essential damage for certain spells there is a thread which has proved this in the DAO forums.. somehow i am unable to get the link and its hidden somewhere in the heap

For a tank as far as i can think you need a bit of cunning and little willpower invested too for an all round development close perfection. with less cunning most of your abilities dont exact the same outcome as they do with high cunning. and with most activated abilities for a tank i think willpower is a good investment too. and the lesser your mental resistance the more easily you are shut down by spells from afar and the tank just goes down soon enough and imagine a death hex and crushing prison combo. the healer cannot heal and the tank is stuck and the only thing that would work is a cleanse. cunning too i believe allows the character to find the weak points in the armor and inflict better damage...

most of the coercion options open with cunning. just increasing the tank with str and dex would definitely make a warrior but a more perfect tanking warrior with a bit lesser str and dex but invested into cun and con would do much better.

but with a mage you see all the other stats have nothing to do with except may be cons for pure blood mages
Magic Will and Cun will build the most near perfect mage in DAO cunning was important even in the story line to explore more options


coming to DA2 cunning is directly associated to crit making it the most wanted stat for a rogue after dex

[Ares_mito]

I have to set a quite high cunning, which means an high probability to avoid foe's hits, maybe 2 points magic and 1 point cunning is the best way to develop a mage in his/her early levels. What do you think about?

[Taleroth]

Ares_mito wrote...

I have to set a quite high cunning, which means an high probability to avoid foe's hits, maybe 2 points magic and 1 point cunning is the best way to develop a mage in his/her early levels. What do you think about?

I believe the math was that if you don't invest 1.5 cunning per level, it's not going to do you very well as a defense stat.  However, those numbers may not be final and I didn't do the math myself.  So take what I say with a grain of salt.

[Rimfrost]

Interesting read. Still confused how much cunnign v.s willpower to go. My thinking is that I will do mostly cunning but with enough willpower thrown in to better resist spell like attacks.

I agree that blood mages doesn't need con. It should be enough to first use all your mana, switch to blood magic and use blood sacrifice on Aveline.