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#876
Rimfrost

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Taleroth wrote...

Ares_mito wrote...

I have to set a quite high cunning, which means an high probability to avoid foe's hits, maybe 2 points magic and 1 point cunning is the best way to develop a mage in his/her early levels. What do you think about?

I believe the math was that if you don't invest 1.5 cunning per level, it's not going to do you very well as a defense stat.  However, those numbers may not be final and I didn't do the math myself.  So take what I say with a grain of salt.


Interesting. So it might be better to decide which one of cunning or willpower to "go for" then huh? and split the points between Magic and cunning or willpower...

#877
Ares_mito

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Taleroth wrote...

Ares_mito wrote...

I have to set a quite high cunning, which means an high probability to avoid foe's hits, maybe 2 points magic and 1 point cunning is the best way to develop a mage in his/her early levels. What do you think about?

I believe the math was that if you don't invest 1.5 cunning per level, it's not going to do you very well as a defense stat.  However, those numbers may not be final and I didn't do the math myself.  So take what I say with a grain of salt.


Maybe 2 magic 1 cunning and 2 cunning 1 magic is your idea but in this way magic will be not so high.
We must wait for the full version to know how to do this the better way

#878
Ares_mito

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Rimfrost wrote...


Interesting. So it might be better to decide which one of cunning or willpower to "go for" then huh? and split the points between Magic and cunning or willpower...



In my opinion have a not very high willpower isn't a problem untill fight a long battle against a boss. What do you think?

#879
Rimfrost

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Probably true. Seems like 2 magic/level might be the real choice and then cunning or willpower just for fun.

#880
Rimfrost

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I think I will go 2 magic/ 1 cunning and somehow will to an required level. Then try to find some magic items that help with willpower or resistance. I like cunning more as a skill anyway

#881
Ares_mito

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You're idea is quite good I think I'll do the same!

#882
Addai

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Rimfrost wrote...

Interesting read. Still confused how much cunnign v.s willpower to go. My thinking is that I will do mostly cunning but with enough willpower thrown in to better resist spell like attacks.

I agree that blood mages doesn't need con. It should be enough to first use all your mana, switch to blood magic and use blood sacrifice on Aveline.

On the templar's wife?  Poor woman.

Where you put attribute points will probably depend on what sort of stat boosting equipment is available.  In Origins there was some +defense equipment for mages, maybe there will be cunning boost equipment in 2.

#883
Aradace

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LexXxich wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Graunt wrote...


Why do you say this?  Why does anyone think the Mage has more "fighting abilities"?  It's just animation sped up, and it's pretty much the same with all of the classes.  The only thing different about them fighting up close is the animation, not the actual damage.


Exactly.  In Origins, if you not only wanted to essentially BE a "battlemage" but also FEEL like one, you pretty much needed to take the AW Specialization.  Now, with the new animations and the ability to melee (which can be increased Im sure through a few points in strength if need be.) you can make a "Battlemage" build without having to invest in said specialization.  Im not sure Im explaining it right but its kind of more of an "aesthetic" thing really.

"Ability to melee" has nothing to do with STR. It's all MAG. Everything damage-wise on mage is MAG dependant.
STR might make you more resistant to Force, but , just like with CUN and DEX, it'll have any noticeable effect  only if you prime it.

On another note. Seeing how damage from abilities grows while leveling, it'll soon make FF absolutely deadly, while enemies' health will scale in line with players' damage.


Even better yet then lol...Just means I dont have to invest in str this time around ya? Image IPB
NOt that I had to with AW but, I suppose you get my meaning lol.

Modifié par Aradace, 02 mars 2011 - 06:08 .


#884
Graunt

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Le Diable wrote...

Graunt wrote...

[

Le Diable wrote...
You have to use your cunning according to me
Believe me i played NM mode in DAO with less cunning and higher Willpower and heavy cunning and less willpower
Guess who won
High Cunning and Medium willpower as i stunned or freezed or brittled or put to sleep more enemies in such a setting

First preference is Magic
Second being Cunning
Third being Will Power

nothing else needed for the mage


I don't see how this is relevant at all to DA2 considering the stats work differently.

unlike a warrior and a rogue
who needs
attack
dexterity
willpower
cunning
and constitution


If you're talking about DA:O, a tanking Warrior only needed STR (req) and DEX, nothing else.  You could opt for going STR (req), DEX (req) and the rest CON, but it wasn't necessary.  Melee was DEX (req) and then all STR.  "ATTACK" wasn't something you had to worry about since it was handled through one of the two stats you were raising anyway.  In DA2  I'll still be doing mostly STR for my two-handed Warrior and the rest will just be requirements.  I may end up having to put a point here and there into WIL, but I doubt it, especially with STA potions.  Even if they have a long cooldown, I never even used them in Awakening or the Origins mod.



Cunning gives you battle field awareness and essential tactical usefulness. A high cunning increases damage especially for rogues and opens up coercion routes... for a mage it increases essential damage for certain spells there is a thread which has proved this in the DAO forums.. somehow i am unable to get the link and its hidden somewhere in the heap

For a tank as far as i can think you need a bit of cunning and little willpower invested too for an all round development close perfection. with less cunning most of your abilities dont exact the same outcome as they do with high cunning. and with most activated abilities for a tank i think willpower is a good investment too. and the lesser your mental resistance the more easily you are shut down by spells from afar and the tank just goes down soon enough and imagine a death hex and crushing prison combo. the healer cannot heal and the tank is stuck and the only thing that would work is a cleanse. cunning too i believe allows the character to find the weak points in the armor and inflict better damage...

most of the coercion options open with cunning. just increasing the tank with str and dex would definitely make a warrior but a more perfect tanking warrior with a bit lesser str and dex but invested into cun and con would do much better.

but with a mage you see all the other stats have nothing to do with except may be cons for pure blood mages
Magic Will and Cun will build the most near perfect mage in DAO cunning was important even in the story line to explore more options


coming to DA2 cunning is directly associated to crit making it the most wanted stat for a rogue after dex


No.  Situationally useful stats are wasted stats.  No Mage or Warrior would be better served having Cunning anywhere replacing either of their primary stats in Origins.  Thanks for explaining what it does for Rogues though as though I didn't already know this.  You made it sound like Mages only needed 1-2 stats while Warriors and Rogues "needed" 4-5, when they don't.  You also never needed a single point into Willpower for a Warrior.  This was only useful during the early levels when stamina levels were naturally low.

I have to set a quite high cunning, which means an high probability to
avoid foe's hits, maybe 2 points magic and 1 point cunning is the best
way to develop a mage in his/her early levels. What do you think about?


Or you could just get Rock Armor for the few times you should be getting hit?

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 11:48 .


#885
Haus of Dye

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Do we know any specific spells for Blood Mages yet?

#886
frostedwing

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Haus of Dye wrote...

Do we know any specific spells for Blood Mages yet?


From what I've seen of the other spells I expect Blood Mage awesomeness!

#887
frostedwing

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Haus of Dye wrote...

Do we know any specific spells for Blood Mages yet?

The Dragon Age wiki has this dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Mage_%28Dragon_Age_II%29
 There's a picture of the blood mage talent tree, but no names.
I would assume that most of the old BM abilities will be there even if they are revamped a bit.

#888
Black-Xero

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Haus of Dye wrote...

Do we know any specific spells for Blood Mages yet?

The very first ability is a sustained ability while the other are activated spells.That's judging from the picture of the tree as Laidlaw mentioned in a gameyplay video about the shape of the icons.

Modifié par Black-Xero, 03 mars 2011 - 11:25 .


#889
frostedwing

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Well, if we look at the old abilities, the Sustained is most likey "Blood Magic" that last ability looks like a puppet much like "Blood Control" graphic. Then the others could be "Blood Wound" and "Blood Sacrifice" but then there's something extra... I wonder if this talent tree is up to date.

*Guh* waiting for this game is making me crazy. I'm having to force myself to stop looking at these forums!! If the DA Legends cartoon is any indication, that female Mage did some nasty Blood Mage Explosion/Blood from the eyes move!

#890
Icy Magebane

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The Bioware website descriptions (and the 1st page of this thread) hint at raising the dead and possibly Life Drain... at least, that's how I read it. Just speculation, but that's all we get for now. I'm getting kind of impatient too... :(

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 03 mars 2011 - 11:49 .


#891
frostedwing

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I definitely hope there are some better looking robe/clothing options for mages... The fake mage robe from the first part of the demo is amazing!!! It's part Morrigan's robe's+ leather armor. I wonder if "Magical" items are still gonna be really hard to find/get/afford... because of the lore. So far with what we've seen Bethany and Flemeth wearing... it looks positive!

Ok I'm done "what iffing" lol!

(Off-topic) I have to say the fake Rogue armor was awesome as well. It was like old school Red Mage armor from Final Fantasy, minus the hat of course!!

#892
_F34R3D_

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Hm. Im probably going to pump points into Magic/str(Armor requirements)
Spec into the spirit healer specialization and get AoE, sustainables, and second spec blood magic.
Or maybe blood magic first. not sure.....

Heard somewhere on a thread that the sustainable for spirit healer only prevent spells that deal "direct damage" so in theory AoE aimed spells aren't prevented by it. (Fireball,Cone of Cold,etc)

Im hoping to make a paladin type build. I love experimenting with talent trees :)

#893
Supreme-Jim

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All Magic stat for me, with blood mage as spec.

Gonna be a powerhouse of magic damage + crowd control.

#894
Therefore_I_Am

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My primary toon in DA1 was an arcane warrior + Spirit user... A real powerhouse! Image IPB
Yeesh That made me immortal even on Hard difficulty... Image IPB

Wonder what Mage Hawke has in store for me.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 04 mars 2011 - 03:23 .


#895
Freakaz0idx

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Not to spoil anything, but the mages look like they'll have some very cool staffs.

#896
Therefore_I_Am

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Le Diable wrote...

Black-Xero wrote...

Le Diable wrote...

nothing else needed for the mage

What about Con if you're a blood mage?


blood mage spells require blood
so if you can siphon or toggle between mana and blood it is no big difference unless and until you want to survive on only life source

i am an arcane warrior blood mage in DAO and DAA with Battle mage specialization

I have no problems
I used blood magic for blood wound and life support nothing else

a few points in constitution does not matter but for a tank and a warrior it means more than to a mage who can nuke...

it all depends on your main character
mine was a mage with blood mage and arcane warrior spec
it was awesome
will miss AW  and  Batlle Mage specialization in DA2


You should throw in some Spirit spells and abilities in there. Full Spirit + AW = beastly.

#897
Ramza_1

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Addai67 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I'd be more happy if mages weren't always relegated to healing...

That's what the NPCs are for.  I never played a healer/ buff mage.  Destruction is too much fun.


You don't actually need healers to beat the game.  I beat origins on hard several times without using heal spells (just potions), and on nightmare I did a melee only run with no mages whatsoever (didn't finish the whole game because of time constraints, but did complete the dhalish and red cliff).  

Im not going to use anyone who heals in DA2 either.  My party kills people before they can kill them.

#898
Gamemako

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So it would seem that a battlemage is... fairly difficult at this
juncture. With all the spec talents in, we can finally build a
semi-complete list of skills. Anyway, here's my list of potential mage
defensive buffs:

Sustained:

Defense:

Self:
Arcane Shield (+20%, -20% mana)
Heroic Aura (+8%, -20% mana)

Others:
Battle Synergy (+15-20%*, warrior's Battlemaster tree)

Damage resist:


Self:
Rock Armor** (+25%, -10% mana)

Others:
Battle Synergy (+9-12%*, warrior's Battlemaster tree)

*Battle Synergy says 5%/3% per companion to all companions, but it doesn't specify whether the battlemaster himself counts.

**Rock
Armor peculiarly references Armor instead of Damage Resist, and
Galvanism isn't terribly specific on how it buffs Rock Armor either. It
could be an effective total of 31.25% additional armor (seems like the
most likely event), but it's hard to tell at this point. We'll just have
to see it in action.

Activated:

Rally (+15% defense, 10s duration, 30s CD, warrior's Battlemaster tree w/ Turn the Blade from Defender tree)
Barrier (+100% DR, 6s duration, 30s CD, mage's arcane tree)


Finally,
it should be noted that Rock Armor is the only mage buff that doesn't
apply to the whole party. That is to say, mages are pretty solidly kept
away from being able to build a melee mage. Rock Armor may give the mage
armor level similar to a rogue or even a warrior's, but he will lack
any defensive abilities beyond that. Compare that to a rogue's ability
to add 40-60% defense with duelist or the monster damage resist and
defense available through the defender and W&S trees. Hexes may give
some momentary benefit by decreasing enemy attack, but it cannot be
kept up all the time: each can only be kept up 1/3rd of the time.
Staggered enemies also get -25% attack, and Rally can be kept up 1/3rd
of the time, but it's all very tentative, and the bonuses affect the
whole party equally (i.e. the mage will still be the easiest to kill,
the opponent will just be less able to kill any of them).

If the
mage adds an undue amount of cunning, he could feasibly achieve over a
50% dodge rate without being utterly gimped in terms of damage (well, at
least I hope), so he may be at least able to stand on his own without
getting his face removed in one second (like the Q&A magehawke), but
I find it pretty unlikely that a mage can ever even survive an attack
from a single elite, let alone a boss. Barring some miraculous bonus
from a character's unique tree, the untouchable Arcane Warrior Anders
from Awakening is now going to be a pathetic punching bag (and an
obnoxious bisexual emo, if reports are true, but that's neither here nor
there).

This depends, of course, on the armor options, but I find
it highly unlikely that you will be able to wear heavier armor at all,
let alone without gimping the hell out of your build. Most items found in the demo seem to be class-specific, so I don't expect any way to wear a suit of plates.

//EDIT: Wow, what happened to the formatting? Well, whatever.

Modifié par Gamemako, 07 mars 2011 - 11:29 .


#899
Grumpy Old Wizard

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I'll be going with a primal primary mage for play on NM. Based on 22 points he will look something like this:

Specializations:
Spirit Healer: Mana regen +25
Force Mage: Physical force: 125% for all attacks and spells
Elemental force: 125% for all attacks and spells

Full Primal--10 points

Spirit--4 points
Spirit Bolt
Dispel Magic--party friendly???
Spirit Strike
Transmutation

Arcane--1 points
[Mind Blast]--Starting Spell, not party friendly

Entropy--1 point
Horror

Force Mage-2 points
Fist of the Maker--not party friendly
Unshakable

Creation-4 points
both upgraded glyphs--party friendly

#900
RelentlessEcho

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Freakaz0idx wrote...

Not to spoil anything, but the mages look like they'll have some very cool staffs.


I'm looking forward to using the Staff of Parthalan, goes well with a blood mage.