257 réponses à ce sujet

[Zigzaggy]

No

[Dragoonlordz]

Wygrath wrote...
The same thing happened with Mass Effect 2 and overall ME2 is a far better game than it's predecessor.

No.. It's not a better game, ME2 is far worse than ME1. Go back to scanning planets from space which takes 30 minutes of your time if thats how you like to play removing the exploration, cutting down size of games and restricting choices and freedom with no feeling of gratification of reaching the end.

Slow combat isn't always a bad thing look at KOTOR series and original DAO both had simular slower paced combat and was incredably popular, speeding up combat to action style game merely improves it for instant gratification players while the RPG players tend to prefer well thought out planning and tactics rather than button mashing. They atleast left in the option to pause to issue commands but going by the demo I'm not 100% convinced yet as to whether it will be ok I'm waiting for retail version before make my judgement.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 février 2011 - 06:52 .

[Gamer Xtreme]

Zigzaggy wrote...

No

Well I do...

So yes.

[anzurose]

Hm, interesting question. Going into this whole thing, no, I didn't want the game to be more action-oriented. However, after playing the demo and feeling the satisfaction of disappearing from that ogre and backstabbing him as his fists slammed down on where I was just a second ago...

I'm actually kind of excited that the physical classes are more action oriented.

[sanadawarrior]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

Based on occasional lurking around here, it seems like a lot of the people here are very much old school RPG fans. Because of this, the perception seems to be that the new Dragon Age will be terrible simply because it will be faster paced, leading people to assume that it will be a dumbed down hack and slasher. The thing is, I wish that were the case. I would love it if Dragon Age 2 became to God of War what Mass Effect 2 was to Gears of War, an action game with RPG elements. Really though, the only difference me, "a slack jawed console moron who loves teh haloz  and started playing BioWare games on consoles when KOTOR was released" can see is that the combat system they tried to implement in Origins actually works.

TL;DR - This isn't a dumbed down casual God of War clone, but I wish it was.

I would like that but not for DA. I think the combat is fine as it is now, however I believe what you are talking about would be amazing for Jade Empire. Imagine martial arts styles having real combos and graples/counters. Would be an amazing thing for a martial arts RPG IMO.

[Vincent Rosevalliant]

LessThanKate wrote...

Well, as I said, I'm a console player, so I'm not surprised to be wrong. This does, however, tell me that what's considered traditional role playing is relative. If you're saying that Origins was along these lines, then perhaps it should have been exclusive to the PC. Can't say I didn't benefit from their decision, though; the sometimes clunky combat of console Origins did not phase me as I explored the new world and story, and I don't expect a faster version of that will bother me either. 

My guess is the framed narrative is asking players to suspend some of their beliefs on how the characters would actually move and such. To an extent, a lot of games do something like this (example, walking around snowy mountains in normal clothes and not freezing to death) and it's done because certain realties don't translate very well into gameplay. I can't account for the CRPGs you speak of, but I would wager even they can't have perfect verisimilitude. 

I will admit, it was...pitiful that one sibling died so easily when it could have been prevented just as easily. Not like it was the first time in a Bioware game a character fell for the sake of the plot, but there it is. I assumed two characters dying right off the bat was to implicate a long journey of personal struggles. The fact that Hawke has unusually quick reflexes and nimble flips (don't really see how becoming transparent with "Stealth" is any better) did not phase that. If I were reading a book, then it would have bothered me, but not here.

Well at least you don't sound like a console gamer. It appears you read books and know words that I don't.
*quickly leaves before flamewar startes*

[harktag]

I guess I'm indifferent as long as it doesn't take away from the RPG elements. I typically purchase a game and play on the easiest mode simply because I'm more interested in getting to the "story" bits than the actual combat itself. I know I'm probably in the minority, but when I buy games like StarCraft 2, I just play the campaign, and then I'm pretty much done with the game until the expansion so I can see what happens next in the story. Which I'm sure is odd to most people, since I think majority play it for the multiplayer aspect and may even completely ignore the campaign altogether. I'm just not that kind of person. Heck, on a few occasions I've gone to YouTube to simply watch all the cut-scenes of cool games I don't have time to play (like the latest Resident Evils), since again, I only care about the story - not the combat.

So while I'm sure BioWare is trying to make their games more universally accessible to a wider audience - which is a perfectly good business practice - it makes it more difficult for us "niche players" who are looking for something specific and hope that there are still games out there that make it a point to preserve the things we love.

Would I be perfectly happy with an "interactive movie" more than a game? Honestly, I would. Heavy Rain is a perfect example. LOVE that game! Would I necessarily mind if there was combat and gameplay added onto the interactive movie? Again only if the RPG elements weren't still intact.

Modifié par harktag, 25 février 2011 - 07:00 .

[Tourach77]

LessThanKate wrote...

If I were reading a book, then it would have bothered me, but not here.

I think that's the fundamental difference.  playing through Baldur's Gate or that era of game makes you feel immersed in the story and the goal is to make the experience much more like participating in a novel than getting a quick adrenaline burst.

Every little thing doesn't have to be "true to life", but I want a game where the combat meshes with the narrative.  I don't need to remember to use the restroom or necessarily sleep every day, or any of that.  I find those concessions (and walking in the snow in inappropriate gear) relatively minor.  When I'm supposed to be feeling bad for the human side of characters (like the two deaths in the demo) or in awe of power (like the show from Flemeth) I just can't given the combat system.  I mean really, I can kill hordes of darkspawn?  You can too Flemeth?  Okay?  Why do I care?

Fighting Flemeth in DA:O (without exploiting) made me really feel her threat and her power given the way the combat worked.  Had I been flash jumping all over and teleporting through her or burning down hordes of darkspawn mooks while it was going on I would have really felt completely different in a narrative sense about that fight.  That's my issue here - action relates to story.

Even the darkspawn themselves I almost feel insulted to see sharing the names of the darkspawn in DA:O.  I actually loved playing as a darkspawn because I felt like they all had their own character and such.  In DA2 they all struck me as faceless hordes of zombies to be mowed down by shotgun fire.  In DA:O I actually felt like a Hurloc was cool and threatening on an individual level.  I wasn't doing poorly implemented versions of Arkham Asylum dashing from mob to mob.

[31416]

no

[Raraptor]

Yes, I do. Like others have already said; DAO wasn't that good in that specific department and made combat feel troublesome at times, like "Oh, here we go again." -Click, Click-



I think because the combat now is faster and therefore more fun imo, it's an improvement and doesn't get boring quickly after 10 hours of gameplay.

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, perhaps I'd appreciate something more reflex-based but still stat-based in every aspect - like Demon's Souls.

Still, after playing the demo I have to say - it plays better than Origins. Gameplay-wise that is.

[Merced652]

yea for real broseph, i'll suddenly stop rolling my eyes over the ridiculous leap or teleport that guy just pulled after 15 hours of seeing it:innocent:.

Modifié par Merced652, 25 février 2011 - 07:07 .

[Tourach77]

Merced652 wrote...

yea for real broseph, i'll suddenly stop rolling my eyes over the ridiculous leap or teleport that guy just pulled after 15 hours of seeing it:innocent:.

It has nothing to do with the story at least.  He's only able to mythical teleport during combats, in teh story you have to think about how he has all the normal human limitations and weakness.  Until weapons get drawn and he super slides and backstabs a bunch of zombies.

What I think they should add next are more fatalities.  And button comboes where I can rip out people entrails to show how awesome I am.

Not combat related, but I think it is related to the bro generation this caters to:  Was anyone else knocked out of their chair laughing at the Isabella parts?  I mean I'm used to gratuitous portrayals of women as sex objects in games...but that was worse than I'm used to, especially from a BioWare title.  I saw her outfit once, added to it her chest size, and immediately stopped being able to take that section seriously.  I was waiting for the option to kill her or abandon her to her fate.

P.S.  After we action up the combat a bit more we should make a TV commercial that says nothing about the game, instead marketing it to teenagers as something their mothers will hate.

Modifié par Tourach77, 25 février 2011 - 07:14 .

[nicodeemus327]

So long as there's plenty of tactical options I'm fine. After playing the demo I think they have that taken care of. I'd say more action is welcome.

[AkiKishi]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Well, perhaps I'd appreciate something more reflex-based but still stat-based in every aspect - like Demon's Souls.
Still, after playing the demo I have to say - it plays better than Origins. Gameplay-wise that is.

Just reminded me I have the black edition of that and I still haven't played it.

[Merced652]

Tourach77 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

yea for real broseph, i'll suddenly stop rolling my eyes over the ridiculous leap or teleport that guy just pulled after 15 hours of seeing it:innocent:.

It has nothing to do with the story at least.  He's only able to mythical teleport during combats, in teh story you have to think about how he has all the normal human limitations and weakness.  Until weapons get drawn and he super slides and backstabs a bunch of zombies.

What I think they should add next are more fatalities.  And button comboes where I can rip out people entrails to show how awesome I am.

Not combat related, but I think it is related to the bro generation this caters to:  Was anyone else knocked out of their chair laughing at the Isabella parts?  I mean I'm used to gratuitous portrayals of women as sex objects in games...but that was worse than I'm used to, especially from a BioWare title.  I saw her outfit once, added to it her chest size, and immediately stopped being able to take that section seriously.  I was waiting for the option to kill her or abandon her to her fate.

P.S.  After we action up the combat a bit more we should make a TV commercial that says nothing about the game, instead marketing it to teenagers as something their mothers will hate.

As a ETL at a retailer i often end up having to back up eletronics because it can be pretty busy since we have to lockdown most of our merchandise these days. As a result i often end up in conversations with mothers about how appropriate a game is for her child. I really cannot wait for those times when it will involve DA2. I've had some parents tell me AC2 was bad...

As far as killing isabella, i'm hoping we can kill her or at the very least run her off. I wouldn't be satisfied with simply having to choose to not include her in my party, and since most companions in DA:O were able to be killed or removed it would only seem appropriate. But given how much this series has changed.. well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you couldn't because of this "framed narrative."

[Postguard]

Modifié par Postguard, 25 février 2011 - 07:32 .

[31416]

Raraptor wrote...

Yes, I do. Like others have already said; DAO wasn't that good in that specific department and made combat feel troublesome at times, like "Oh, here we go again." -Click, Click-

I think because the combat now is faster and therefore more fun imo, it's an improvement and doesn't get boring quickly after 10 hours of gameplay.

The characters move faster and hit faster but on the other hand there seems to be more enemies and taking one down takes about twice as many (normal) hits as in DA:O. So the fights may be faster, but the combats take longer. Some may like that, I dont.

[rwilli80]

It doesn't really matter what I or anyone else wants for DA2... its what Bioware wanted and that's what we got. You either take it or leave it. Its the only way to get your point across.

[Lord_Saulot]

I don't mind things being a bit faster, but I think DA2 might have gone a bit too fast. But I'm ok with things as they are in the demo. ANy more faster and action oriented though, would disappoint.

[AngelicMachinery]

This talk of killing Isabella simply because her chest size is kind of grossing me out...

[Balvale]

Combat in DA:O was probably my biggest gripe. Doing the foxtrot towards enemies was incredibly off-putting. So yes, more action please. Still plays like DA:O, but has some flare.

[nicodeemus327]

31416 wrote...

Raraptor wrote...

Yes, I do. Like others have already said; DAO wasn't that good in that specific department and made combat feel troublesome at times, like "Oh, here we go again." -Click, Click-

I think because the combat now is faster and therefore more fun imo, it's an improvement and doesn't get boring quickly after 10 hours of gameplay.

The characters move faster and hit faster but on the other hand there seems to be more enemies and taking one down takes about twice as many (normal) hits as in DA:O. So the fights may be faster, but the combats take longer. Some may like that, I dont.

I personally love it. It'll open up a number of tactical options.

[Sabresandiego]

The more action the better. The more skill involved in battle the better. I love RPGs and I hate slow combat. DA2 is way better than origins. And I loved ME2, my favorite single player game of all time.

[Tourach77]

Sabresandiego wrote...

The more action the better. The more skill involved in battle the better. I love RPGs and I hate slow combat. DA2 is way better than origins. And I loved ME2, my favorite single player game of all time.

Do you play on consoles?  While I could mean that in a derogatory way I don't actually, I'm more interested.  I feel like console gamers are more likely to prefer the ME2, instant gratification, action oriented kind of combat.

I think the PC gamers are more likely to prefer old school combat options.  Obviously I don't think platform and combat preference are set in stone, but I predict there is a correlation.

And even BioWare games alone...to say ME2 was better Baldur's Gate 2?  I'd say that says it all right there.