257 réponses à ce sujet

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

To the topic creator's question: No.  Story is number one in my book.

[Leonick91]

Well not as much as you do.

But I love what they did with da2 it's still the old style but with a little more speed.

[Undeff]

I'm sure this has already been discussed, but more action, for me, wouldn't have been bad, but the amount shown in the demo was just... not needed. It's like in "God of War III," where you face hordes after hordes of undead; and that's great! For "God of War III."

I'd much rather have an intricate, and beautiful, story than waste time slaughtering darkspawn for the duration of my time playing.

But that's me.

Modifié par Undeff, 25 février 2011 - 08:33 .

[Dubya75]

*double post*

Modifié par Dubya75, 25 février 2011 - 08:44 .

[Dubya75]

(previous post didn't get saved?)

I don't think DA2 is more action orientated than Origins, they've simply improved and fixed the combat system. People are as a result focusing so much on it that they don't see the bigger picture.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Tourach77 wrote...

Sweet Dirge wrote...

I honestly have a hard time understanding when people say they like the combat in Dragon Age 2. The combat is not faster than Origins; the animations are faster and dark spawn explode when hit with a sword. Just seems to over the top for a gritty fantasy world I've grown to love.

I want to like DA2, I really really tried, but the demo bored.

I agree completely.  DA:O was like a modern revival to the old BG style of doing RPGs.  I actually didn't pre-order DA2 (the first time for a Bioware game) because I was worried about the idea that the main character needed to be voiced so origins were removed.  Playing the demo just made me sad.

The combat feels like a terrible console game and that's not what I want from my bioware.  I /like/ Batman: Arkham Asylum, but I don't want that when I come to play a party-based tactical RPG.  The new combat system makes me want to laugh.  I mean DA:O was a world where I felt like traditional fantasy RPG elements were being well represented.  I made a mage in the DA2 demo and barely made it through.  Every time I stabbed the ground to shockwave or cut someone with the blade on the bottom of the staff I started either laughing or cringing.  Even the way that skills are represented feels very new age console-y and much less traditional RPG.  I open the skill tree and feel like I'm playing some action game with RPG elements tacked on.  I can't even zoom out to the tactical level with the camera anymore.  Combat is significantly worse right now.

S-T-F-U.

Stop ****ing complaining about how "consoles ruin lives". If you actually stopped and looked, the tactical depth in DA2 is EXACTLY the same as in DAO. Christ, just because everything is faster doesn't mean it's ****ing god of war. Just because you can now play it like an action-RPG, DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO!!!

[Sacred_Fantasy]

I'm fine playing with Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Dynasty Warrior, Samurai Warrior, King of Fighter etc. But don't we have too many of that already?

Edit: Grammar 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 25 février 2011 - 08:51 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Let me put it this way.



I have Two Worlds 2 and Minecraft installed on my new laptop..and the Dragon Age 2 Demo.

Guess what I tried for a bit and am not playing any more. (HINT: DA2)



Yes..both TW2 and Minecraft have a far more engaging and interesting gameplay than DA2.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
S-T-F-U.
Stop ****ing complaining about how "consoles ruin lives". If you actually stopped and looked, the tactical depth in DA2 is EXACTLY the same as in DAO. Christ, just because everything is faster doesn't mean it's ****ing god of war. Just because you can now play it like an action-RPG, DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO!!!

Why don't you STFU?

DA2 demo combat sucked. The whole combat atmosphere and pacing is worse. If I can play it like an action RPG and easiyl slaughter random mooks by the millions, then it isn't tactical enough. Period.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Undeff wrote...

I'm sure this has already been discussed, but more action, for me, wouldn't have been bad, but the amount shown in the demo was just... not needed. It's like in "God of War III," where you face hordes after hordes of undead; and that's great! For "God of War III."

I'd much rather have an intricate, and beautiful, story than waste time slaughtering darkspawn for the duration of my time playing.

But that's me.

So good combat and good story are now mutually exclusive? You spent all of your time slaughtering darkspawn in DAO!! Now the combat is faster, that suddenly means there must be more darkspawn-slaughtering in this game? It is stated by the devs that there is 103 minutes of cutscenes, against the 70 minutes DAO had.

You people boggle my mind.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
S-T-F-U.
Stop ****ing complaining about how "consoles ruin lives". If you actually stopped and looked, the tactical depth in DA2 is EXACTLY the same as in DAO. Christ, just because everything is faster doesn't mean it's ****ing god of war. Just because you can now play it like an action-RPG, DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO!!!

Why don't you STFU?

DA2 demo combat sucked. The whole combat atmosphere and pacing is worse. If I can play it like an action RPG and easiyl slaughter random mooks by the millions, then it isn't tactical enough. Period.

RAISE-THE-DIFFICULTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! The devs have said, that on normal and casual there you can survive without micro-managing,, but on hard and nightmare it is a NECESSITY.

Use common sense people, please for the love of god.

[Kidd]

I find it so weird people are talking about how easy the demo was. My Hawke died a few times throughout my three playthroughs. And my friend who was playing a rogue on PC and pausing way more than I was had to retry the ogre fight two times =S



As for the topic itself, I don't want DA to become more action oriented. I don't see how DA2 really is though (aside from the lack of auto attack on consoles, but I honestly like it anyway), it's basically a more tactical DAO. No more same spells of different elemental types, instead the spells are more diverse. And the abilities for warriors and rogues have a lot more thought behind them than the DAO's standard "I hit hard and take aggro" and "I hit hard and stun." All that's done in a faster pace which is wonderful, considering DAO was way slower than, say, Baldur's Gate.

[truestatic]

I think people are drawing a lot of the negative "IT'S AN ARPG" opinion from the first part of the demo where everything you do one shots an enemy. ARPG's don't have stop motion combat. GOOD ARPG's don't have you right click on a single monster and hit one button every 10 seconds or so. An ARPG foot soldier NPC doesn't take 30 seconds to whittle down. DA2 isn't an ARPG.

[Hellosanta]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I find it so weird people are talking about how easy the demo was. My Hawke died a few times throughout my three playthroughs. And my friend who was playing a rogue on PC and pausing way more than I was had to retry the ogre fight two times =S

I found the demo wasn't so hard since the difficulty was fixed to normal. I've never died in the Ogre fight, but I still find people who say that they easilly have defeated the Ogre or have done solo play without using any tactic/pause and healing potions very interesting (I can do that if I don't try to have all three party members to be alive though). I just want to know how they have managed to do that.

[Tourach77]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

RAISE-THE-DIFFICULTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! The devs have said, that on normal and casual there you can survive without micro-managing,, but on hard and nightmare it is a NECESSITY.

Use common sense people, please for the love of god.

We'll see, but I kind of doubt it.  I don't doubt that it will be harder on a higher difficulty, but that is different from more tactical.  It is clear that the direction they went with DA2 is of hordes and action oriented combat.  The simple fact that I can't zoom out and unlock the camera into the top down tactical view (or couldn't in the demo at least) is proof enough IMO.  Pausing a lot isn't necessarily what makes combat tactical.  Even the new way of modeling health and abilities makes it clear that the goal is to make it a "quicker" combat system more in the console vein.  I like Darksiders, hell I like playing MvC2.  But this is a completely different direction for DA2 and I don't like it in my traditional RPGs.  Inappropriate amounts of punctuation and abuse of the caps lock key will not somehow magically remove the fact that they have fundamentally changed combat.  No matter how much people claim you can "do both" they have removed the ability to play the way you could in DA:O, pauses alone do not make that happen.  Things like a one minute CD on the only healing spell, the significant reduction in ability variety, and the addition of "real time" dodging alone mean that combat is fundamentally different.  Seriously, the mage auto-attack animations and the rogue ninja-dodges are comical to me for an RPG.  I'm not saying this is a God of War game; it isn't.  But it is far more Diablo and far less Baldur's Gate than DA:O.

I'm fine with you liking the new way better.

But don't claim I have the option of doing what I always did when I don't.

Edit: Regarding cut scenes - I don't think adding more cutscenes adds more story.  I don't enjoy modern Final Fantasy games because they are effectively movies that I have to engage in annoying and tedious grinding to get to finish.  I come from an age of text-based adventure games plenty of which had wonderful story...and obviously no cutscenes.  The idea that my character has to be voiced or that "story" should be told primarily through cut scenes is a modern creation that I think actually harms story since voice acting and cutscenes are far more expensive than story told through dialogue.

Modifié par Tourach77, 25 février 2011 - 09:20 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

No. I don't want DA2 to be more action oriented. In fact I started playing DA:O because someone here at the old forums suggested that I might like it better than ME2. And that person was right. I was pleasantly surprised. I still have pre-ordered DA2 and hope they will surprise me again. So far I am not impressed, though.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 25 février 2011 - 09:23 .

[MrStorm2K]

Tourach77 wrote...

We'll see, but I kind of doubt it.  I don't doubt that it will be harder on a higher difficulty, but that is different from more tactical.  It is clear that the direction they went with DA2 is of hordes and action oriented combat.  The simple fact that I can't zoom out and unlock the camera into the top down tactical view (or couldn't in the demo at least) is proof enough IMO...

I'm fine with you liking the new way better.

But don't claim I have the option of doing what I always did when I don't.

Why do you assume they're lying? Or do you think they don't understand their own product and are mislabelling it? I'm confused as to where all this Bioware mistrust came from.

[Tourach77]

MrStorm2K wrote...

Why do you assume they're lying? Or do you think they don't understand their own product and are mislabelling it? I'm confused as to where all this Bioware mistrust came from.

I think you misunderstand the idea of lying.  I believe that on higher difficulties you will have to pause more in order to micro-manage all of your party members more.  Pausing to trigger abilities doesn't, in and of itself, make combat more tactical.  The very lack of the complete top down free-camera view is a huge blow to any ability to be tactical.  Even the new template placing (especially cones) is geared towards the "mow down hordes of mooks" than the "tactical combat" of DA:O.  No matter how slowly I put shotguns in zombies' faces, all I'll ever be doing is putting shotguns in zombies' faces.  Pausing to make sure all of my party is doing that simultaneously doesn't make it any different.

Someone in the thread compared traditional RPG style combat to playing chess.  I much prefer that style in an RPG...it's a shame that everything is getting the pro-action treatment (not to say that this is nearly as bad of a change in combat as Fallout 2 -> 3 or anything).

Edit:  And at least for me, and I suspect many others, Bioware mistrust came from EA hatred.

Modifié par Tourach77, 25 février 2011 - 09:28 .

[Drake Sigar]

No. Every genre has been gravitating towards a more action-orientated approach. I’m not against an adrenaline-pumping action adventure game once in a while, but it shouldn’t be the ONLY product out there.

Modifié par Drake Sigar, 25 février 2011 - 09:30 .

[AllThatJazz]

Nope. I like ARPGs very much, but I'm happy that Origins wasn't one. I don't mind (in fact I quite like) faster combat animations and the like, as long as I'm not expected to button-mash my way through the game. Since there will be an auto-attack feature, and RTwP is still implemented, and I'm assuming there will be non-violent solutions to some quests, I'm hopeful. Will be very disappointed if I'm wrong. I have to admit, I'm okay with the idea of DA2 not being turn-based, though. I enjoyed turn-based combat well enough in Fallout and Arcanum (both largely due to being able to increase the speed of rounds without putting my decisions on a timer), but otherwise found it generally poorly implemented in games. Frustration rather than enjoyment ensued. RTwP is cool because I can control the pace of the game. Fast and furious? Check. Slow and tactical. Yup. It's my ideal, to be honest. x

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 25 février 2011 - 09:34 .

[Rompa87]

P n' P D&D might be a better choice for those people who don't like the pace of the game?



Moaning and complaining aside, the time for constructive criticism has long passed on this subject.

[MrStorm2K]

Tourach77 wrote...
I think you misunderstand the idea of lying.  I believe that on higher difficulties you will have to pause more in order to micro-manage all of your party members more.  Pausing to trigger abilities doesn't, in and of itself, make combat more tactical.  The very lack of the complete top down free-camera view is a huge blow to any ability to be tactical.  Even the new template placing (especially cones) is geared towards the "mow down hordes of mooks" than the "tactical combat" of DA:O.  No matter how slowly I put shotguns in zombies' faces, all I'll ever be doing is putting shotguns in zombies' faces.  Pausing to make sure all of my party is doing that simultaneously doesn't make it any different.

Edit:  And at least for me, and I suspect many others, Bioware mistrust came from EA hatred.

So you're saying the very nature of facing more enemies than DA:O makes it non-tactical? Or the very ability to not zoom out? Or a combination of those two?

As for the EA mistrust, DA:O was released under them. Why is that exempt? Or is it not exempt and you thought it was hurt in some way?

[Sengoku no Maou]

I don't like the changes, but it's not as if I can do anything about it.

[Tourach77]

Rompa87 wrote...

P n' P D&D might be a better choice for those people who don't like the pace of the game?

Given that you are talking about a Bioware game I find the suggestion that Bioware fans should turn to pen and paper dungeons and dragons quite hilarious.

How quickly we forget.

And farewell to the wonderful memories that I'm sure brought many of us to our adoration for BioWare as a company.

Edit:  DA:O being released under EA made me quite wary of it.  ME as well.  I was pleasantly surprised by DA:O and the freedom EA gave them to do what they traditionally do.  It looks like they lost some of that here and pushed another mass marget - target the console playing teenager - game.

Modifié par Tourach77, 25 février 2011 - 09:34 .

[DrunkenMagicianNL]

Chloe_W1971 wrote...

No. I played the demo, then I cancelled my pre-order with Amazon. They took an RPG and turned it into Diablo. I'm not going to pay 80 Euros for that, sorry Bioware. If this is what EA wants you to make, good luck, it's been fun while it lasted. The Bioware logo used to be pretty much a guarantee that I could buy the game bearing it blindly, but now it looks more like the BW logo is going to mean "better be careful" from now on.

If I wanted to play a Diablo clone, I'd bloody well buy one.

I agree. But it's what I had expected from the interviews.
And besides: Mass Effect 1 > Mass Effect 2. More action, less rpg. It's what sells games these days, unfortunately.