304 réponses à ce sujet

[Null_]

yeah a DLC where your whole squad dies. That will sell well.

And then someone who didnt play the DLC imports his save to ME3 and reads "looks like ur whole team survived suicide mission good job... they all died in dlc tho. umad?"

[jamie94]

that seems like a good idea tbh. i can see us having a choice of either allowing reapers to attack earth and get help or fight them on our own. seems good cant wait for the "arrival"

xD

[Valmarn]

Bluko wrote...

It seems very much a possibility that Shepard could end up staying behind to let the rest of his team make a break for it. So in a way that could be the "Ultimate Sacrifice", though "Last Stand" or something else would seem a little more appropriate. This also would work well in setting up ME3. There has to be some reason or basis for Shepard having to start afresh again. And a Batarian prison would make an excellent intro/tutorial and set the dark mood for the rest of the game. I get the feeling you may be on to something. Also it does make sense that Shepard would stay behind since if there is some evidence of the Reapers that'd it be vital the rest of the galaxy finds out about it. Also no Shepard is particularily fond of the Batarians, so I can see even the most Paragon or Renegade Shepard staying behind to kill some Batarians.

Why? Why couldn't we just start the game off at Level 30?

Considering the Level 60 cap in Mass Effect 1, it finally makes sense why they set the cap at only 30 in Mass Effect 2: they want to avoid the silly "sequel amnesia" cliche'

Mass Effect 1 - Level 1 to 60
Mass Effect 2 - Level 1 to 30
Mass Effect 3 - Level 30 to 60

My only nitpick is so far every DLC has been made available during the game. The way this DLC would work by your suggestion Pwener means that could only be done if you have beat the game. Thing is Bioware hasn't done this yet and I'm not sure that they will. Although they have eluded to this being a possibility. Though it could be problematic given that some people may have chosen not to continue their game, and are in progress of new game. That's my only concern here.

Why would it be such a problem for people who chose not to continue their game? You do realize that the game can still be continued, even if you don't choose to immediately after beating the game, right?

We're able to save our games for a reason; even if one neglected to, there's likely an auto save that will get you close enough. So, if you want to continue, load the last save for that character profile.

[Alienmorph]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Plus the idea of a "last stand" involves multiple deaths (classical example - the finale of Saving Private Ryan). That's why I think that "Arrival" is going to be like a "suicide mission" all over again. With the possibility of multiple squadmates dying plot deaths. Like 1 squadmate per wave in "the battle for Object Rho".

I'm scared. A lot scared.

Because I agree with you.

Wiping out a few pre-determined squadmates in the first big battle against the reapers would be good in terms of plot (better than another death-rebirth-rebuilt ot the team) and will reduce the amount of variables that BW will have to deal with for ME3, giving highter chances to the more plotworthy characters to return as full squadmates in ME3 if they survived SM. And also it's not that deabilitating for who didn't play the DlC... we can assume quite easily that there will be a "summary of the previous events" dialogue at the beginning of ME3, like happened with the "memory test" in ME2... simply in that will hadded an extra dialogue: 

"You were able to bring all your team alive out of the Collector's Base, but then you took some bad losses when Reapers arrived." (fully successfull SM)

"You defeated Collectors without big casualties. but then the Reapers whiped out many of the survivors."  (SM with a few losses)

"Almost anyone who fought at your side is dead because of the Collectors before and of the Reapers after, but you still resist." (heavy losses in SM)

Who care about the character will find out what happened to the missing squaddies with the DlC, for the others they will be simply casualties of war, and considered how big is going to be the Reaper's war there will be nothing to be surprised. 

About the prisoner of Batarian... meh... it's possible, but sounds a bit lame imo.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 25 février 2011 - 03:47 .

[Smeelia]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Plus the idea of a "last stand" involves multiple deaths (classical example - the finale of Saving Private Ryan). That's why I think that "Arrival" is going to be like a "suicide mission" all over again. With the possibility of multiple squadmates dying plot deaths. Like 1 squadmate per wave in "the battle for Object Rho". Alternatively, if Shepard (player) choses to withdraw without standing against all the 5 waves, someone else is going to be the "ultimate sacrifice" (Dr. Kenson, the VS, a crowd of unnamed civilians, etc.)

I tend to think the idea of a last stand is more that you have nowhere to fall back to and you either win or lose here (losses aren't necessary, just very likely).

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's only because the "suicide mission" sucked. The enemy was wussified, and the player could achieve the perfect result just for being a completionist. No actual challenge or skills involved. That made the story cheap.

Now, here's to hope BioWare has learnt a tad from that mistake and there won't be easy cop-outs as far a the "Last Stand" trophy goes.

You could argue that, especially with it being an RPG, the effort that Shepard goes to in making his squad loyal and ensuring his team is at their best is where the challenge and skill comes from.  Escort missions are one of the most annoying things in gaming and it's very rare that anyone manages to make a good one, a suicide mission where your gameplay directly affects the survival rate of your crew could easily fall into the common escort mission traps.  For example, different classes and players may have different ways of playing, if you make your requirements too restrictive then some players may be severely disadvantaged or forced into playing a way they don't enjoy in order to succeed.  If AI starts getting involved then things can only take a turn for the worse, escort AI is always terrible.  If it makes you feel better, you could always play through the suicide mission on Insanity and if you die once then you can just say that Shepard died and all was lost (or you could restart from the start until you complete it in one go).

I'm not saying that I wouldn't have liked for there to have been interesting and challenging extra objectives in the suicide mission that tied in well with the gameplay (this is often the killer for these kinds of ideas) but I do feel that going through the motions of team-building and preparation was a good enough explanation for why everyone survived (and I think it'd be much worse if some deaths were inevitable).  I found playing through the game challenging enough itself, I suppose we all have different ideas of what a challenge is so they can't please everyone.

Back on the main topic, I don't really like the idea of Shepard being captured by Batarians.  I'm not a big fan of cutscene captures really, they tend to be realistically avoidable and only work because you're trapped by the limits of the game itself.  I remember one from another Bioware game where my group was captured by an unavoidable knockout gas trap but the entire group was immune to gas in one way or another and the cutscene (being in-game) reflected this by showing us not succumbing to the gas, the only problem was that in the next scene we'd been disarmed and captured while unconscious so it made the whole thing extremely silly.  Still, I was willing to let them off with a cutscene death so I suppose it could work, I'm just not sure how much it adds and it could take a lot away if it's poorly handled.

I think that I just don't like too many things happening to my Shepard or having Shepard do much outside of my control, being killed was actually fairly minor really since you were brought back and it was a decent excuse for why things happened for two years without Shepard being involved.

The idea of being interrogated to answer questions about the previous games doesn't work for me since you would refuse to give information to your captors, a debriefing after the escape might be a better way to do that.  I do think that fighting your way out of (another) prison would have the potential to be a fun tutorial mission though.  From Zaeed's description, it's possible that a Batarian prison is almost like a kind of arena thing, where the prisoners have to fight to the death to escape (perhaps more something along the lines of "The Running Man", where it's done as a kind of gameshow).  Extra points if you can convince some of the prisoners to fight with you and take the whole thing down on the way out.

I like the points about the Leviathan getting involved, it might be a shame to keep that for DLC though since it could be a major factor in Mass Effect 3.

[Dark Specie]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
That's only because the "suicide mission" sucked. The enemy was wussified, and the player could achieve the perfect result just for being a completionist. No actual challenge or skills involved. That made the story cheap.

Now, here's to hope BioWare has learnt a tad from that mistake and there won't be easy cop-outs as far a the "Last Stand" trophy goes.

Well, excuse me for being a completetionist who actually likes to be rewarded for taking all of the necressarilly precautions (hiring all alvailable squadmates, doing all upgrades, etc) 

And who likes having a "third choice" available, either way.

Anyway, I hope for no prison escapes, or any "Batarian POW" scenario. I tire of those (both prison escapes - I hope to be able to escape this year by playing only the one in The Witcher 2 - and "cutscene capture").

And if someone has to be sacrified, I can only hope we have a hand in who it is. Bah...

[Smeelia]

Dark Specie wrote...

Anyway, I hope for no prison escapes, or any "Batarian POW" scenario. I tire of those (both prison escapes - I hope to be able to escape this year by playing only the one in The Witcher 2 - and "cutscene capture").

Don't forget Skyrim, being a prisoner at the start is an Elder Scrolls tradition.  Actually being a prisoner is quite common in RPGs, even Baldur's Gate 2 started that way.

[Aradace]

Smeelia wrote...

Dark Specie wrote...

Anyway, I hope for no prison escapes, or any "Batarian POW" scenario. I tire of those (both prison escapes - I hope to be able to escape this year by playing only the one in The Witcher 2 - and "cutscene capture").

Don't forget Skyrim, being a prisoner at the start is an Elder Scrolls tradition.  Actually being a prisoner is quite common in RPGs, even Baldur's Gate 2 started that way.

So did one of the Fallout games I believe...wait...nvm, I think that's the one that was "cancelled" lol.

[Fiery Phoenix]

The thing is, if Shepard does end up surrendering to the batarians to let Amanda escape with (possibly) Object Rho, then that means an official conclusion to ME2's storyline, and a setup for an ME3 opening. In other words, there would be no post-mission play after the end of Arrival; ME2 has ended for good.


Regardless, there's no denying that a prison break would make for an excellent (though cliched) tutorial level for ME3. That, and it would likely be a nice way of referencing past events if an interrogation/trial were to take place beforehand. All in all, it's a great idea, in my opinion, and I'd definitely like it.

[samuraix87]

people keep saying just shepard is in prison why not shep and the 2 squaddies he has with him on the mission that would make more sense and you put either garrus or mirand in charge while your captured

[Fiery Phoenix]

samuraix87 wrote...

people keep saying just shepard is in prison why not shep and the 2 squaddies he has with him on the mission that would make more sense and you put either garrus or mirand in charge while your captured

Because this is about Shepard, not the squaddies. I'd imagine Shepard sending her squadmates off to escort Amanda to the Normandy, while working as a distraction before she surrenders herself to the batarians. Something like that.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 25 février 2011 - 07:37 .

[Dark Specie]

Smeelia wrote...
Don't forget Skyrim, being a prisoner at the start is an Elder Scrolls tradition.  Actually being a prisoner is quite common in RPGs, even Baldur's Gate 2 started that way.

Yeah, on top of my head, I can recall a few:

Baldur Gate 2.
Alpha Protocol.
Hitman.
Arx Fatalis.
The Witcher 2.
Oblivion.
Beyond Divinity.
Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader.

And so forth. There's also plenty of games that has a Prison Escape somewhere during the MQ (such as Dragon age or Fallout 3). But I think my biggest beef with a Prison escape here isn't exactly that it's an old and outdated trope to go for. It's that it'd be Shepard, of all people, not some unknown beginner who has yet to rise to prominence prior to us taking control of him...

BTW, as far as it being an Elder Scrolls tradition: True, though at least in Morrowind, you didn't have to do any prison escape, you were released as soon as you arrived at your destination...

[Aradace]

Honestly, I dont care if they go with the prison break theme. Just so long as I get to ace as many batarians as possible. Because I really....cant....stand....Batarians XD

[LeVaughnX]

Dark Specie wrote...

Smeelia wrote...
Don't forget Skyrim, being a prisoner at the start is an Elder Scrolls tradition.  Actually being a prisoner is quite common in RPGs, even Baldur's Gate 2 started that way.

Yeah, on top of my head, I can recall a few:

Baldur Gate 2.
Alpha Protocol.
Hitman.
Arx Fatalis.
The Witcher 2.
Oblivion.
Beyond Divinity.
Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader.

And so forth. There's also plenty of games that has a Prison Escape somewhere during the MQ (such as Dragon age or Fallout 3). But I think my biggest beef with a Prison escape here isn't exactly that it's an old and outdated trope to go for. It's that it'd be Shepard, of all people, not some unknown beginner who has yet to rise to prominence prior to us taking control of him...

BTW, as far as it being an Elder Scrolls tradition: True, though at least in Morrowind, you didn't have to do any prison escape, you were released as soon as you arrived at your destination...

Hey don't leave out Gears of War =D!!

[LeVaughnX]

Though I will say this - if the Batarian prison thing goes down that leaves room to recruit a Batarian and maybe another prisoner that had been captured - maybe a refugee Vorcha....



Though you'd have to do a lot of convincing - you might be able to find a Batarian/Vorcha who both want freedom and will help you achieve it if they can join you on your squad...hm...

[Aradace]

LeVaughnX wrote...

Though I will say this - if the Batarian prison thing goes down that leaves room to recruit a Batarian and maybe another prisoner that had been captured - maybe a refugee Vorcha....

Though you'd have to do a lot of convincing - you might be able to find a Batarian/Vorcha who both want freedom and will help you achieve it if they can join you on your squad...hm...

nonononononononononononononononooooooooo pleaaaaaaase no lol...Seriously, that'd be a deal breaker for me to have a batarian or a vorcha squaddie forced down my throat.  I would seriously only play ME3 to that point and then snap the disc in half

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Aradace wrote...

LeVaughnX wrote...

Though I will say this - if the Batarian prison thing goes down that leaves room to recruit a Batarian and maybe another prisoner that had been captured - maybe a refugee Vorcha....

Though you'd have to do a lot of convincing - you might be able to find a Batarian/Vorcha who both want freedom and will help you achieve it if they can join you on your squad...hm...

nonononononononononononononononooooooooo pleaaaaaaase no lol...Seriously, that'd be a deal breaker for me to have a batarian or a vorcha squaddie forced down my throat.  I would seriously only play ME3 to that point and then snap the disc in half

just for this i want it to happen

i support the batarian/vorcha squadmate idea

[Aradace]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

LeVaughnX wrote...

Though I will say this - if the Batarian prison thing goes down that leaves room to recruit a Batarian and maybe another prisoner that had been captured - maybe a refugee Vorcha....

Though you'd have to do a lot of convincing - you might be able to find a Batarian/Vorcha who both want freedom and will help you achieve it if they can join you on your squad...hm...

nonononononononononononononononooooooooo pleaaaaaaase no lol...Seriously, that'd be a deal breaker for me to have a batarian or a vorcha squaddie forced down my throat.  I would seriously only play ME3 to that point and then snap the disc in half

just for this i want it to happen

i support the batarian/vorcha squadmate idea

lol wouldnt be the first time Ive snapped a game in half and wont be the last

[WhiteAden]

as I have read in a bunch of interviews between Bioware & the Media (no links sorry, I'm lazy) : if you Shepard died at the end of ME2, you cannot import your game in ME3... because ME3 starts with a living Shepard... thus... I think you will have to sacrifice either technology, or some kind of human colony/researchbase/thing... it's the "ultimate" sacrifice" because Human colonies are already dissappearing everywhere! which means you would (of course) prefer to save as many humans as you can right?

[Pwener2313]

I did't know this was gonna pick so well. Most of my threads fail after 5 to 15 posts (no trolling, just that no one ever likes my crazy ideas). Thanks for the support so far, please keep them coming.



Starting out fresh also means losing everything you had in ME2. You can't start ME3 with the ship, crew, weapons and resources. You need some kind of problem to start off form the bat clean as a whistle. For example, the Lone Wanderer gets shot in the head and left for dead in the desert in Fallout New Vegas, losing everything he had (in my canon, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas have the same character). It would make more sense to connect both ME2 and ME3 since it's what BW said they'd do. Furthermore, leaving a definite ending to ME2 in a cliffhanger just seems so right to me and apperantly so many other people.



Shepard escapes the prison after months of torture and interrogation (along with a few new possible scars for those that liked them) and must then find a shuttle off the Batarian planet and is given the option to join any previous organization or go at it solo (Cerberus, Alliance, Spectres or lone wolf with his crew and himself alone).

[Reavah]

Pwener2313 wrote...

I did't know this was gonna pick so well. Most of my threads fail after 5 to 15 posts (no trolling, just that no one ever likes my crazy ideas). Thanks for the support so far, please keep them coming.

Shepard escapes the prison after months of torture and interrogation (along with a few new possible scars for those that liked them) and must then find a shuttle off the Batarian planet and is given the option to join any previous organization or go at it solo (Cerberus, Alliance, Spectres or lone wolf with his crew and himself alone).

That's not a crazy idea, that's an awesome idea. Big ol' dialogue wheel while on the shuttle. Council, Alliance, Cerberus, or solo. Love it!

[nuclearpengu1nn]

i like it

but do we actually have to wait til me3 for ash/kaidan to save our asses?

[Pwener2313]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

i like it
but do we actually have to wait til me3 for ash/kaidan to save our asses?

The VS could be in the DLC but leaves with the Dr. and Object Rho along with the rest of the team on the Normandy while Shepard stays behind. Then in ME3, it's the VS who helps us bust out of prison through a diversion or something and they leave the planet together and then the VS gives Shepard the option on what to do next (since by this point, they have come to trust the Commander and his/her judgement).

Works for me.

[Pwener2313]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

I like it
but do we actually have to wait til me3 for ash/kaidan to save our asses?

The VS could be in the DLC but leaves with the Dr. and Object Rho along with the rest of the team on the Normandy while Shepard stays behind. Then in ME3, it's the VS who helps us bust out of prison through a diversion or something and they leave the planet together and then the VS gives Shepard the option on what to do next (since by this point, they have come to trust the Commander and his/her judgement).

Works for me.

[samuraix87]

i would like the squadies you have with you on the mission to also be put in prison with shepard i mean what would it do to garrus or samara or even mordin i find that it might change them in different ways