348 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesX]

Naltair wrote...

Change is scary and people will always hate change.

The end.

And often change is simply bad.  Or else we will be changing constantly.  History has more stupid and unsuccessful changes than it does sucessful ones.  To blanketly apply that statment to all change is pretty, well, ill conceived.


[Following is unrelated to the quoted person above]

The whole wheel argument does not degeneate into "Well my perferrence so its mine."  That is what defines childish.  if someone believe it is better, and hence match their perferrence, then they should be able to come up with a reason why it fits their perferrence.

majority of complain is "Well I say things I don't mean to say in DA:O"  ... well that is a valid reason.
The same stupid things happen with the dialogue wheel.  You pick "Witty: I want to be a dragon" and the non-sense 4 year old speech that comes out of the NPC is far worse than what I ever seen in DA:O.

Other have aruged that reading text is emotionless.. well so is reading a book, no one ever complain a well written book is emotionless.

Etc. etc.  it has been repeated ad nauseam, but if a person is incapable of engaging in meaningful conversation and just want to pretend this is a 4Chan board, then it would be better to simply ignore the thread and not ony bump a pointless thread but also contributing to spam.

Modifié par JamesX, 25 février 2011 - 05:26 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

[quote]topster88 wrote...

[quote]Raanz wrote...

It's all about the cinematic experience.  :happy:
The days of 5-6 typed out responses to questions, or to drive a story are over.  Game companies do focus testing, and make major gameplay decisions based on that testing.  I realize there are some folks that love that type of game.  That's the reason why MUDs still exist, but if you haven't guessed all ready, MUDs don't make millions of dollars, they don't "sell" over 2 millions copies.[/quote]

Except, ya know, Origins.

[quote]
I find it very hard to believe that not having an entire response typed out for you before a character would say it totally confuses you and causes unwanted behaivor from the pre-written protagonist of the game.
I think what is more likely is that you got used to reading every possible response, and that helped you get into the story, so now you don't want it to change, regardless if it makes a difference or not.[/quote]

I find it fairly hard to believe that 4-5 single-sentecne responses are that grueling to read


[quotePeople voicing their opinion about a subject, a game mechanic, a character, etc. really doesn't bother me...what does snap my panties is when folks voice their opinions from atop Mt. Sinai, and claim it's the ten commandments.
Guess what, opinions are like ****s; everyone has one.

[/quote]

And forums are a place to present those opinions. Never once have I berated any of you for saying you like the system, so why am I getting crapped on for saying i don't?

[/quote]

Please do me a favor and play origins............read you text selection aloud and then read it aloud again as you are playing, for every dialogue, I'll wait.

[XBenotto18]

topster88 wrote...

XBenotto18 wrote...

At least I'm not saying anything bad about DAII, I dont see how I'm a troll. If you dont like the wheel then thats fine Mr.T

Well this explains a lot. you have no idea what a troll is.

Listen up broheim: A troll isn't someone who complains. A troll is someone who actively tries to get inflammatory responses. Like what you appear to be doing.

Thats all fine and dandy. Still dont know how I'm a troll, I just post against your dumb reasoning why the wheel sucks. And If people change their minds off you, who just signed up to post crap about a wheel in a game, then thats just all fine and dandy as well OP. You didnt even play origins because you probably work for another gaming company

Modifié par XBenotto18, 25 février 2011 - 05:24 .

[Naltair]

This change is not a bad one it's just changing one way of framing an interactive narrative with another and providing the same amount of interactivity.

[topster88]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Sure, but to get any meaningful conversation we would have to have much much more data to reference, as it stands in this thread id say about 75-85% understood that paraphrase given the, context and Icon

Are you actively ignoring how the so-called "compassionate" response was in no way compassionate? besides, Would it have cost SO MUCH MORE SPACE to write "At least he will be with dad" as the blurb as opposed to "he will not be alone"?

Bioware cant hold your hand about everything,

Making dialogue options clear is not hand-holding.

One important thing youve ignored is this........had they given that option in full you would have picked a different option even if your RP identitiy was charming/compassionate..........you  had a problem with the outcome, it sounded like you just didnt care for that option, but it would have been the end result as that was the writers intent.........

Which is exactly the crux of my issue. The compassionate option should not have been the compassionate option. The phrases we are given as options should be clear and they should get realistic reactions from NPCs.

Coming full circle, you are alway choosing from set dialogue, I much much much prefer shorthand when its a voiced protag, otherwise its redundant IMO

Again, you don;t NEED to write out the full sentence to make it clear.

Modifié par topster88, 25 février 2011 - 05:27 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

[quote]topster88 wrote...

[quote]Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Sure, but to get any meaningful conversation we would have to have much much more data to reference, as it stands in this thread id say about 75-85% understood that paraphrase given the, context and Icon[/quote]

Are you actively ignoring how the so-called "compassionate" response was in no way compassionate? besides, Would it have cost SO MUCH MORE SPACE to write "At least he will be with dad" as the blurb as opposed to "he will not be alone"?

[quote]Bioware cant hold your hand about everything,[/quote]

Making dialogue options clear is not hand-holding.

[quote]One important thing youve ignored is this........had they given that option in full you would have picked a different option even if your RP identitiy was charming/compassionate..........you  had a problem with the outcome, it sounded like you just didnt care for that option, but it would have been the end result as that was the writers intent.........[/quote]

Which is exactly the crux of my issue. The compassionate option should not have been the compassionate option. The phrases we are given as options should be clear and they should get realistic reastions from NPCs.

[/quote]Coming full circle, you are alway choosing from set dialogue, I much much much prefer shorthand when its a voiced protag, otherwise its redundant IMO

[/quote]

Again, you don;t NEED to write out the full sentence to make it clear.

[/quote]

No I've stated many times I've heard that exact phrase referencing death at funerals and the like, as a term of compassion

It was clear to me, it wasnt clear to you, again statistics and fact otherwise its ****** for tat all day

Sure you dont need a full sentence to make stuff clear, but the paraphrases are like I said on previous exp w/ ME1/2 (and w/o intent Icons mid you) 90% clear to me.

There are no mind bendingly complex logic leaps here.

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 25 février 2011 - 05:28 .

[Lethys1]

It's kinda funny, I actually liked it better in Mass Effect than in Dragon Age.  It isn't clear what options you're taking.  I chose a seemingly sarcastic answer and then my Hawke says to Isabella in the demo that I was tryin to talk that guy she was after down from being violent.  I don't know how or why that conclusion was made by the game based on what I  said, but it was pretty off.

Also there was a time when a choice was "He won't be the only one" about carver being dead.  I thought that meant along the lines of if we don't hurry up we're gonna join him, as opposed to "At least dad will have some company now."  What?

I mean I don't like most of the changes but I think that's more to do with being unfamiliar with these things.

Modifié par Lethys1, 25 février 2011 - 05:28 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I agree with you, topster88. And BTW: Welcome to the forums.

And to XBenotto18: You don't accept that other people have different opinions than yours. Instead of using reason you are trying to invalidate that opinion by ridicule it. You call it "dumb", but fail to provide any thought behind it. The fact that the OP is new to the forum does not mean he can't have a different opinion. Your intolerance makes you no better than a troll.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 25 février 2011 - 05:29 .

[XBenotto18]

Topster88 you mine as well just tell your boss that respected bioware members arent going to give 2 sh*ts about your thread and are still going to play DAII.

[Nonoru]

What an original thread.

*sigh*

[topster88]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Sure you dont need a full sentence to make stuff clear, but the paraphrases are like I said on previous exp w/ ME1/2 (and w/o intent Icons mid you) 90% clear to me.

There are no mind bendingly complex logic leaps here.

They should all be 100% clear.

[HTTP 404]

topster88 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...


why dont we see how it works on when the game is out?  nothing is without its flaws so I give you that.  maybe then we can have a better idea and then throw out ideas that could work maybe in DA3 it can be improved.

Protip: The point of a demo is to be a demonstration of the full version. I would say it is entirely safe to judge a game based on the demo, because that's the point of a demo.

Reviews for game dont come out from playing a demo.  Its ok to have a first impression of the game by playing a demo but you shouldnt truly judge a game from a demo.  A demo isnt made to be judged but rather give you a first impression.  If your impression and not your judgement of the game is such, than thats what it is.  But with the game coming out perhaps you will be better equipped at making your argument.  Because right now, it just looks like you are picking fights when there barely is one.  Im giving you the benefit of the doubt in your point of view the least you can do is respect why other people like the system as it is and wait for the full game to see how it fully plays out rather than judge how it works based on 4 or 5 instances where it was used in the demo.

[topster88]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Reviews for game dont come out from playing a demo.  Its ok to have a first impression of the game by playing a demo but you shouldnt truly judge a game from a demo.  A demo isnt made to be judged but rather give you a first impression.  If your impression and not your judgement of the game is such, than thats what it is.  But with the game coming out perhaps you will be better equipped at making your argument.  Because right now, it just looks like you are picking fights when there barely is one.  Im giving you the benefit of the doubt in your point of view the least you can do is respect why other people like the system as it is and wait for the full game to see how it fully plays out rather than judge how it works based on 4 or 5 instances where it was used in the demo.

My first impression of the radial menu in DAII is that is sucks. Happy?

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Sure you dont need a full sentence to make stuff clear, but the paraphrases are like I said on previous exp w/ ME1/2 (and w/o intent Icons mid you) 90% clear to me.

There are no mind bendingly complex logic leaps here.

They should all be 100% clear.

Please show me any game where that has been the case ever?

Origins suprise sex is fairly infamous now, moreover the system allowed you to be a d*** and still have 100% approval via gifts......but i digress

[XBenotto18]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Sure you dont need a full sentence to make stuff clear, but the paraphrases are like I said on previous exp w/ ME1/2 (and w/o intent Icons mid you) 90% clear to me.

There are no mind bendingly complex logic leaps here.

They should all be 100% clear.

They are 100%

For you........ya well you cant seem to role play and choose between 3 personalities

[XBenotto18]

topster88 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Reviews for game dont come out from playing a demo.  Its ok to have a first impression of the game by playing a demo but you shouldnt truly judge a game from a demo.  A demo isnt made to be judged but rather give you a first impression.  If your impression and not your judgement of the game is such, than thats what it is.  But with the game coming out perhaps you will be better equipped at making your argument.  Because right now, it just looks like you are picking fights when there barely is one.  Im giving you the benefit of the doubt in your point of view the least you can do is respect why other people like the system as it is and wait for the full game to see how it fully plays out rather than judge how it works based on 4 or 5 instances where it was used in the demo.

My first impression of the radial menu in DAII is that is sucks. Happy?

Thats what we expect from a new member when a sequals coming out

[HTTP 404]

topster88 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Reviews for game dont come out from playing a demo.  Its ok to have a first impression of the game by playing a demo but you shouldnt truly judge a game from a demo.  A demo isnt made to be judged but rather give you a first impression.  If your impression and not your judgement of the game is such, than thats what it is.  But with the game coming out perhaps you will be better equipped at making your argument.  Because right now, it just looks like you are picking fights when there barely is one.  Im giving you the benefit of the doubt in your point of view the least you can do is respect why other people like the system as it is and wait for the full game to see how it fully plays out rather than judge how it works based on 4 or 5 instances where it was used in the demo.

My first impression of the radial menu in DAII is that is sucks. Happy?

Im always happy

[topster88]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Sure you dont need a full sentence to make stuff clear, but the paraphrases are like I said on previous exp w/ ME1/2 (and w/o intent Icons mid you) 90% clear to me.

There are no mind bendingly complex logic leaps here.

They should all be 100% clear.

Please show me any game where that has been the case ever?

Origins suprise sex is fairly infamous now, moreover the system allowed you to be a d*** and still have 100% approval via gifts......but i digress

How many more times do you need me to wtrite that I didn't think the dialogue system in Origins was great either before you stop comparing the two games in terms of clarity?

[Mr. Gerbz]

It's really funny that people dislike a dialogue system which has been improved in every single area compared to its previous instalment.



Anyway, stop making threads like these. Most of us like the new dialogue style.

[AngryFrozenWater]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Reviews for game dont come out from playing a demo.  Its ok to have a first impression of the game by playing a demo but you shouldnt truly judge a game from a demo.  A demo isnt made to be judged but rather give you a first impression.  If your impression and not your judgement of the game is such, than thats what it is.  But with the game coming out perhaps you will be better equipped at making your argument.  Because right now, it just looks like you are picking fights when there barely is one.  Im giving you the benefit of the doubt in your point of view the least you can do is respect why other people like the system as it is and wait for the full game to see how it fully plays out rather than judge how it works based on 4 or 5 instances where it was used in the demo.

I don't agree. A demo is intended to convince people to buy the game. If a demo cannot provide that it it is worthless and even damages the intended it was created for. Therefore it does not make sense to me to defend a demo which cannot show how cool the game is.

[Cyclone Prime]

I'm tired of these threads....



Ya wanna know why they put in paraphrasing and voice?



Because during the LANDSMEET when Loghain would yell in my face and call me criminal, I'd pick a diologue option that never got read, my warden would just turn his head, and Loghain would go back to yelling!



I like a voiced character so that there'll be more emotion to something than me just standing there turning my head.



And do you really want the dialogue option to NOT be paraphrased? Read a whole sentence, click it, just to here it read back to me! I like the new system it let's me listen to my own character and gives him a voice, instead of me saying it out loud like they can hear me.

[Naltair]

My two cents on this issue which seems to be two issues in one: voiced protagonist and the “loss” of choice for players. Now for the first part I can’t really say much that is going to get people to get on board with a voiced protagonist if they hate the idea. I do feel that a voiced protagonist makes for a more interactive story since they can emote and actually be apart of the narrative.

But the second issue is much easier to address. I keep seeing people mentioning that the dialogue wheel removes choice or role playing or makes them less connected to their character than fully written out text responses that are not voiced. Choice in any of these games is an illusion, we are playing a narrative with multiple paths to an endpoint but those paths are all fully scripted and for all your role playing and backstory you create for your Warden or Hawke there are certain things you just can’t do and certain things you will do.

No matter what origin you choose you will become a Grey Warden. No matter what you do no matter how maniacal or cowardly you try to be if you play the narrative you will defeat the Blight. You can’t quit, you can’t decide to go run a **** house for a few years… and without mods you are even limited to certain characters you can have a physical relationship with. Again with all these limitations in mind, whether the dialogue is voiced with a dialogue wheel or written in text with a silent protagonist the effect is the same. Just the style of how the story is told is changed. But you have the same exact narrative with built in expectations that you cannot change, short of adding mods. So again I am not sure how this limits your role playing potential when you have a limited path you can already take.

Now it is a given assumption that most people will buy into the purpose of the game and go with it, but I find it amusing that people keep throwing the role playing and choice excuses around when really it only exists within the scope of the narrative and allowable options BioWare gives you in the first place.

With this in mind your connection to the character is a purely personal thing and that really cannot be disputed but as I have tried to say before the conversation system in place now is the same it just obfuscates elements that BioWare felt were clunky and work better for a voiced protagonist. If that makes you less connected there isn’t much BioWare can do to fix that at this juncture given the game is gold and probably heading out to be sold as we speak.

Modifié par Naltair, 25 février 2011 - 05:37 .

[Raanz]

topster88 wrote...
And forums are a place to present those opinions. Never once have I berated any of you for saying you like the system, so why am I getting crapped on for saying i don't?

I think you misunderstand, I am not berating you, I am pointing out that you voiced your opinion, but persist to demand an answer to why responses can't be written out word for word in the way that you'd like them to be.  Many folks have posted in here telling you why they think it shouldn't or wasn't but that doesn't seem to satisfy you.

So in the spirit of a forum debate I will ask you; honestly, did you get confused from the dialog wheel, or do you just prefer to have it spelled out?  If it's the latter, then I say that it doesn't really matter.
DA2 is a linear-story based, dialog tree driven game.  Choice is purely to dictate how your Hawke is perceived to a world filled with NPCs that have their story written already.  The end is pre-determined and the only thing anyone is allowed to "role-play" is whether you have a lot of friends or a lot of enemies.  Written out respones that convey what Hawke is going to say word for word is not going to change that.

[HTTP 404]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Reviews for game dont come out from playing a demo.  Its ok to have a first impression of the game by playing a demo but you shouldnt truly judge a game from a demo.  A demo isnt made to be judged but rather give you a first impression.  If your impression and not your judgement of the game is such, than thats what it is.  But with the game coming out perhaps you will be better equipped at making your argument.  Because right now, it just looks like you are picking fights when there barely is one.  Im giving you the benefit of the doubt in your point of view the least you can do is respect why other people like the system as it is and wait for the full game to see how it fully plays out rather than judge how it works based on 4 or 5 instances where it was used in the demo.

I don't agree. A demo is intended to convince people to buy the game. If a demo cannot provide that it it is worthless and even damages the intended it was created for. Therefore it does not make sense to me to defend a demo which cannot show how cool the game is.

having a good first impression is a convincing way for people to buy the game is it not?  I also didnt defend the demo, I was saying to reserve judgement.  I swear some people read my posts very differently than what I write.  haha

Modifié par HTTP 404, 25 février 2011 - 05:38 .

[XBenotto18]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree with you, topster88. And BTW: Welcome to the forums.

And to XBenotto18: You don't accept that other people have different opinions than yours. Instead of using reason you are trying to invalidate that opinion by ridicule it. You call it "dumb", but fail to provide any thought behind it. The fact that the OP is new to the forum does not mean he can't have a different opinion. Your intolerance makes you no better than a troll.

Just saying that a new member with no game registration that only post bad things on his own thread is suspicious. He is entitled to his opinion though. But things happen on forums before a big realese.