348 réponses à ce sujet

[topster88]

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe I missed it, but what game do you consider to have a "great" dialogue system, and why?

KotOR. No surprises, and the dialogue was clear enough to figure out the tone.

Fair enough. The thing is, KotOR and DAO have the same dialogue system You just like the particular KotOR implementation of that system better than DAO's implementation.

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

[BeardedNinja]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

So youre going to buy the game or not?

At this point? Probably rent it and buy it if I end up really liking it.

So the demo did its job of determining your preference for the game.

End of thread really.

TBH you've brought no supporting evidence for your opinion other than anecdotal evidence and a differenct viewpoint of the world.

You should thank the demo for saving you $60!

Its like Gaider said, if the demo gives you doubts there is really nothing further to day

I'll never understand your point of view...

"You don't like it, so shut up!"

BioWare has a feedback topic specifially for people to say what they think about the demo. Clearly they want to hear what people have to say about it. Originally I was going to post this in that topic, but after a brief perusal through it it looked like it degenerated into a flame war, so I made a topic for this instead. You may not care what other people think about the game, but BW does.

yes, and this thread hasnt turned into a flame war at all, well done that.

Modifié par BeardedNinja, 25 février 2011 - 06:04 .

[Tietj]

This argument is going to go on forever; nobody is going to be convinced one way or the other. What I don't like is the way a lot of people are stating their opinion--and whether or not you like the system is your opinion--as fact. Personally, I like the dialogue system, and I actually really like the paraphrasing. For me, it's like opening a little present. And I would not like Hawke to say exactly what I just chose, verbatim. But I would never say that it is inherently "better" than having a system like DA:O where a silent protagonist says exactly what you want them to. I just think that it is. I absolutely hated the dull, blank slate that was my Grey Warden in Origins. But I know other people really liked that. It's opinion.



It's also my opinion, although I think it's a correct and rather obvious one, that the paraphrasing is mostly pretty clear about what is going to be said, particularly with the icons as helpful hints. I don't completely disagree with the OP about the first example (about the dead sibling not being alone)--that did kind of come out of left field--but it was only one of many responses and I generally could tell what was about to be said.

[XBenotto18]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

XBenotto18 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree with you, topster88. And BTW: Welcome to the forums.

And to XBenotto18: You don't accept that other people have different opinions than yours. Instead of using reason you are trying to invalidate that opinion by ridicule it. You call it "dumb", but fail to provide any thought behind it. The fact that the OP is new to the forum does not mean he can't have a different opinion. Your intolerance makes you no better than a troll.

Just saying that a new member with no game registration that only post bad things on his own thread is suspicious. He is entitled to his opinion though. But things happen on forums before a big realese.

And you keep on trying to invalidate a different opinion by throwing accusations to the OP? Even in this response. Why are you doing that?

Fine, the wheel sucks. its not written out like the box. OP is right. Its the prevailing opinion. You must be happy now

I approve +30 just because of theirs no proof. Lets just watch his arguments for fun then

PS: nevered called it dumb (your first post)

Modifié par XBenotto18, 25 février 2011 - 06:10 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe I missed it, but what game do you consider to have a "great" dialogue system, and why?

KotOR. No surprises, and the dialogue was clear enough to figure out the tone.

Fair enough. The thing is, KotOR and DAO have the same dialogue system You just like the particular KotOR implementation of that system better than DAO's implementation.

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

How would your new system handle:

Monologues
Reptition Factor

I'm out, unless fact are brought in this meaningless (not that it wasnt already), Have fun with your rental OP

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 25 février 2011 - 06:06 .

[Mr. Gerbz]

topster88 wrote...

Mr. Gerbz wrote...

It's really funny that people dislike a dialogue system which has been improved in every single area compared to its previous instalment.

Anyway, stop making threads like these. Most of us like the new dialogue style.

Improving a piece of crap doesn't make it anything but a piece of crap

Luckily it has never been a piece of crap, and thus its really great now.

[topster88]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe I missed it, but what game do you consider to have a "great" dialogue system, and why?

KotOR. No surprises, and the dialogue was clear enough to figure out the tone.

Fair enough. The thing is, KotOR and DAO have the same dialogue system You just like the particular KotOR implementation of that system better than DAO's implementation.

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

How would your new system handle:

Monologues
Reptition Factor

Yeesh, why are you so angsty?

I don't want a new system. I want clarity. is this too tough a concept to grasp?

[HTTP 404]

I dislike where this thread is going. adios people. have fun! remember its just people on the internetz!

Modifié par HTTP 404, 25 février 2011 - 06:08 .

[TaHol]

I love the new dialogue-system. End of story.

[AlanC9]

topster88 wrote...

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

So how do you determine which problems in DA2 are a result of the system and which problems are the result of poorly-written dialogues and scripting errors.

[topster88]

HTTP 404 wrote...

I dislike where this thread is going. adios people. have fun! remember its just people on the internetz!

I haven't liked it 11 pages ago

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe I missed it, but what game do you consider to have a "great" dialogue system, and why?

KotOR. No surprises, and the dialogue was clear enough to figure out the tone.

Fair enough. The thing is, KotOR and DAO have the same dialogue system You just like the particular KotOR implementation of that system better than DAO's implementation.

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

How would your new system handle:

Monologues
Reptition Factor

Yeesh, why are you so angsty?

I don't want a new system. I want clarity. is this too tough a concept to grasp?

Its not tough at all to grasp clarity as a concept,
but dont try to spit in my face and tell me its raining bud, read your own title FFS, not to mention any number of quotes I can pull....

I subscribe to the theory that you are in a vast minority of confused paraphrase player, and I'll stick by it

[Tietj]

topster88 wrote...

I don't want a new system. I want clarity. is this too tough a concept to grasp?

But it is clear.  Or at least, most of us thought it was clear, most of the time.  And was that last sentence really necessary?  You're the one saying that people are angsty but you're being just as insulting.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Raanz wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Raanz wrote...

The end is pre-determined and the only thing anyone is allowed to "role-play" is whether you have a lot of friends or a lot of enemies.  Written out respones that convey what Hawke is going to say word for word is not going to change that.

At least written out responses would make clear which direction the conversation and the story are going. The icons may help or the paraphrases may indicate intention, but in the end the complete sentence will be more clear to avoid confusion. The way the paraphrases are worded in the demo are not exactly helpful. A mix would work. Icons in front of a full sentence may give a further indication of the intention. And maybe even prevent the "Zevran problem".

I understand where you are coming from, but it's really not practical for the developer to do that.  In the response I just posted to topster, sometimes the chosen response is going to be a short monologue, writing out that response on the dialog wheel would not be feasible.

It is very easy to do for the "developer". They have already done so in DA:O. In tha game longer convos followed as well. Like I said icons in front of those sentenses would be an improvement and would work out fine. The system as I experience it in the demo is a step back.

[AlanC9]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

How would your new system handle:

Monologues
Reptition Factor

Dunno about repetition, but monologues would presumably work like the pre-battle speech in KotOR 2. Which used -- you guessed it -- paraphrases.

[topster88]

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

So how do you determine which problems in DA2 are a result of the system and which problems are the result of poorly-written dialogues and scripting errors.

If the blurbs were clearer, there would be no problem. However the consistant issue with the radial menu is that they seem to need to write the blurbs with as few words as possible just so all the choices can appear on the screen at the same time, and I can't help but ask "why bother with the radial menu at all"? Why not just have the list, make the blurbs longer and more accurate, then have the VA speak the whole line?

[Raanz]

topster88 wrote...
Yeesh, why are you so angsty?

I don't want a new system. I want clarity. is this too tough a concept to grasp?

I think that's the point.  For a lot of folks, there is already clarity.  Is that tough to grasp?  Bioware obviously thought that there was enough clarity as well.
I get it, it's a deal-breaker for you.  I am not too fond of the huge weapons, and eastern art influence of that game, while a lot of people love it...no deal breaker and definitely not worthy of it's own thread outside the feedback thread Bioware created for things of this nature.

Modifié par Raanz, 25 février 2011 - 06:14 .

[Hellosanta]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

topster88 wrote...

I love how people keep saying "well that's, like, your opinion, man" yet no one seems to eb able to answer the simple question:

Why don't they just write out the full response?

Because then you would read it and then hear it repeated back like you were 3 Yrs old



Are you 3 yrs old?

I'd prefer that over the PC saying something that 100% isn't what i selected like what i want to say doesn't matter.

Does what you say not matter?

You see there? It's damn f***ing "personal preference". People should stop saying their opinion as a fact.

[topster88]

AlanC9 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

How would your new system handle:

Monologues
Reptition Factor

Dunno about repetition, but monologues would presumably work like the pre-battle speech in KotOR 2. Which used -- you guessed it -- paraphrases.

That was a singular instance in KotOR 2. The entirety of DA2 will be like that.

[nRGon]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe I missed it, but what game do you consider to have a "great" dialogue system, and why?

KotOR. No surprises, and the dialogue was clear enough to figure out the tone.

Fair enough. The thing is, KotOR and DAO have the same dialogue system You just like the particular KotOR implementation of that system better than DAO's implementation.

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

How would your new system handle:

Monologues
Reptition Factor

Yeesh, why are you so angsty?

I don't want a new system. I want clarity. is this too tough a concept to grasp?

So because it doesn't state exactly what the character is going to say, you think that's unclear?  Ultimately it should be viewed as a choice that influences the character development of Hawke.  The text isn't the only emphasis in a sense, it's your decision in relation to the situation at hand.  The text is a summary of how that's expressed and it's shortened so you don't have a huge line of text on the screen.  Granted there are times when you don't get exactly what you had thought the character would say but the dialog is rarely bad.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.
<3:)

[Tietj]

topster88 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

The system in the end is irrelevant. The reason I hate the radial menu is because ambiguity is inherent in the design. If the choices in Origins were written more clearly, there would be no "surprise sex" issues.

So how do you determine which problems in DA2 are a result of the system and which problems are the result of poorly-written dialogues and scripting errors.

If the blurbs were clearer, there would be no problem. However the consistant issue with the radial menu is that they seem to need to write the blurbs with as few words as possible just so all the choices can appear on the screen at the same time, and I can't help but ask "why bother with the radial menu at all"? Why not just have the list, make the blurbs longer and more accurate, then have the VA speak the whole line?

Because a list of choices is--in my opinion--clunky, out of date, and much less sleek-looking than the wheel.  And if what you say about the blurbs not being clear were obviously true, I would agree with you.  But most of us understood what Hawke was going to say!  We may not know the specifics, but do we really need to?  I understand some people would like it, but that's not this game. What are we all arguing about?

[AngryFrozenWater]

XBenotto18 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

XBenotto18 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree with you, topster88. And BTW: Welcome to the forums.

And to XBenotto18: You don't accept that other people have different opinions than yours. Instead of using reason you are trying to invalidate that opinion by ridicule it. You call it "dumb", but fail to provide any thought behind it. The fact that the OP is new to the forum does not mean he can't have a different opinion. Your intolerance makes you no better than a troll.

Just saying that a new member with no game registration that only post bad things on his own thread is suspicious. He is entitled to his opinion though. But things happen on forums before a big realese.

And you keep on trying to invalidate a different opinion by throwing accusations to the OP? Even in this response. Why are you doing that?

Fine, the wheel sucks. its not written out like the box. OP is right. Its the prevailing opinion. You must be happy now

I approve +30 just because of theirs no proof. Lets just watch his arguments for fun then

PS: nevered called it dumb (your first post)

Oh. Didn't you? How about this...

XBenotto18 wrote...

Thats all fine and dandy. Still dont know how I'm a troll, I just post against your dumb reasoning why the wheel sucks. And If people change their minds off you, who just signed up to post crap about a wheel in a game, then thats just all fine and dandy as well OP. You didnt even play origins because you probably work for another gaming company

You don't reason. You just attack.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 25 février 2011 - 06:19 .

[AlanC9]

topster88 wrote...

If the blurbs were clearer, there would be no problem. However the consistant issue with the radial menu is that they seem to need to write the blurbs with as few words as possible just so all the choices can appear on the screen at the same time, and I can't help but ask "why bother with the radial menu at all"? Why not just have the list, make the blurbs longer and more accurate, then have the VA speak the whole line?

Devs said they tested having the full text. It failed. People found it annoying to read the line and then hear the exact same thing.

Besides, writing the PC's dialogue that way puts severe constraints on the writing, since people don't like walls-o-text and a lot of the console players couldn't read w-o-ts even if they wanted to put up with them. The PC has to speak in short, choppy sentences. It works in The Witcher because Geralt's a laconic kind of guy., but a lot of Shepard and Hawke's lines would fail.

[AngryFrozenWater]

AlanC9 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

If the blurbs were clearer, there would be no problem. However the consistant issue with the radial menu is that they seem to need to write the blurbs with as few words as possible just so all the choices can appear on the screen at the same time, and I can't help but ask "why bother with the radial menu at all"? Why not just have the list, make the blurbs longer and more accurate, then have the VA speak the whole line?

Devs said they tested having the full text. It failed. People found it annoying to read the line and then hear the exact same thing.

Besides, writing the PC's dialogue that way puts severe constraints on the writing, since people don't like walls-o-text and a lot of the console players couldn't read w-o-ts even if they wanted to put up with them. The PC has to speak in short, choppy sentences. It works in The Witcher because Geralt's a laconic kind of guy., but a lot of Shepard and Hawke's lines would fail.

A lot of console players complain that the text in the demo is hardly readable on certain displays. Even when paraphrased. So, this whole solution doesn't really work, does it?

[clopin]

If you can't guess the vast majority of the time what Hawke is going to say from both the icons and the text, then you have the deductive reasoning skills of a goat.

Modifié par clopin, 25 février 2011 - 06:27 .