348 réponses à ce sujet

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...


Well youre playing Hawke, not you........regardless of how bioware spins it hawke is essentially another shepard, its TBD is we will get more than one game out of it, but odds seem high,

Unexpected to you could be a normal response to others........, but thats how paraphrasing works, its one of the weaker parts of the entire voiced protagonist, but its there for numerous good reasons

It's an RPG. The "RP" part of that acronym is "Role Play". It's kinda tough to role play when you have only a very vague idea of what you can say

Is that what that means?

Hmm its not tough for me to *shock* RP in ME1/2

[topster88]

Helena Tylena wrote...

topster88 wrote...

As opposed to Origins, where you had... no control over what the PC said, apart from 'good reply' 'sarcastic reply' 'evil reply' 'kill with murderknife'?

Did you actually play Origins?

I did. Just because my dialogue options were all written out doesn't mean I wasn't limited to just those few. And quite often they'd be choices between a lighthearted, diplomatic or aggressive option. There was also an Investigate option, most often preluded by "I have some questions" and ended with "I don't have any more questions".
It's basically the same, if you look at it well enough. Only less obvious.

The problem IS that it isn't obvious.

[Naitaka]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Well youre playing Hawke, not you........regardless of how bioware spins it hawke is essentially another shepard, its TBD is we will get more than one game out of it, but odds seem high,

Unexpected to you could be a normal response to others........, but thats how paraphrasing works, its one of the weaker parts of the entire voiced protagonist, but its there for numerous good reasons

That's my main gripe with the game. The fact is that it's NOT the same type of game as DA:O and Bioware could well have made that clear in their marketing strategy. Instead we get this BS about how this is exactly like DA:O only better. They shouldn't have given people false expectation of the game in the first place. Especially with the whole "pre-order months before we release concrete information and get your Signature Edition" marketing campaign, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[MorningBird]

topster88 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

topster88 wrote...

As opposed to Origins, where you had... no control over what the PC said, apart from 'good reply' 'sarcastic reply' 'evil reply' 'kill with murderknife'?

Did you actually play Origins?

I did. Just because my dialogue options were all written out doesn't mean I wasn't limited to just those few. And quite often they'd be choices between a lighthearted, diplomatic or aggressive option. There was also an Investigate option, most often preluded by "I have some questions" and ended with "I don't have any more questions".
It's basically the same, if you look at it well enough. Only less obvious.

The problem IS that it isn't obvious.

But it is obvious.

[topster88]

XBenotto18 wrote...

just pointing out the obvious

you dont need to pms

you can either accept it and get over it or continue to whine a about
it till the cows come home, preferably away from here though.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Helena Tylena wrote...

topster88 wrote...

As opposed to Origins, where you had... no control over what the PC said, apart from 'good reply' 'sarcastic reply' 'evil reply' 'kill with murderknife'?

Did you actually play Origins?

I did. Just because my dialogue options were all written out doesn't mean I wasn't limited to just those few. And quite often they'd be choices between a lighthearted, diplomatic or aggressive option. There was also an Investigate option, most often preluded by "I have some questions" and ended with "I don't have any more questions".
It's basically the same, if you look at it well enough. Only less obvious.

This and the wheel actually gives you more options to investigate etc etc, even the origins system had the

"suprise sex" options

[topster88]

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

[MasterSamson88]

TJPags wrote...

MasterSamson88 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

MasterSamson88 wrote...

gingerbill wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Well, that's you're opinion. Me personally, I think its the next step in the evolution of video-game RPGs.

I agree , it works because you are not reading a line and then saying it , reading the line works with no voice acting , but now theres voice acting i much prefer the wheel .

The only failure of teh wheel system is when they say something diffrent than what you expected . I think ME games overall it worked well and think it will work well in DA2 , there will be the odd time  he says something i dont want but the system can be improved with each game.

It's not like there wasn't a problem with the Origins system either. I had no idea half the time if I was pushing a conversation forward or if I was hitting on the person. People mention Zevran a lot for that, but it happened with me even in other characters.

Just because its not paraphrased doesn't mean you know exactly what you're saying. 

The problem there was lack of intent . . .what some of us took as sarcastic lines were, it seemed, intended as flirting.

I don't mind the intent icons.  I just don't like the paraphrase.

I still don't understand though. I mean just tell me plainly what is wrong with paraphrasing? I feel like it gives you clearly enough info to formulate a idea of what that response will be. Not everything should have to be written out fully for someone to get I feel.

I mean in both Mass Effect's I had no problem at all with the paraphrasing. So... I just don't know.

Well, for me, I don't like knowing the "idea" of a response.  I want to know the actual response.  Words used are important to me.  Tone matters, but the actual words are important.  They just - are. 

I never played ME or ME2, so I don't know, overall, how it worked out there.  However, I've seen several videos of responses that, to me, seemed way out of line for the paraphrased choice.  Now, those may have been the only ones, but I've never played it, so I don't know.  So I'm not sure that, to me, ME is a good example.

With a voiced protagonist it's just not effecient to have to read his entire script and then listen to him repeat it back to you. I just feel like the mechanic in DAII should be enough, you know?

I mean they got the paraphrasing like Mass Effect did. They even have the similar positions, friendly is at the top, mean is at the bottom. And now they've gone one step further and added icons to basically spell it out as to what the response actually is. 

I don't know, maybe it is the difference between acting and directing. I mean I honestly have fun directing it, and I don't feel like that makes it any less of an RPG, nor does it make it break immersion in some way. 

I'll be honest, what was kind of immersion breaking to me was the fact that my PC in Origins was a neutral faced plank. I didn't hate it, but when I compared it to how dialogue had felt in Mass Effect, I felt the latter was far superior and more fluid.

[Harcken]

I don't mind the paraphrasing as much as I do the icons. Whereas in DAO I was picking options all over the place, it feels like DA2 pushes me to picking one Hawke: good hawke, funny hawke, or jerk hawke.

[MorningBird]

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

And read my explanation on page 2.

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

It doesnt have to obvious it just has to make sense to a reasoning mind...........

i.e how did we get from there to here...........its not like you had to make some crazy mental leap to get there.......or maybe you did

[XBenotto18]

topster88 wrote...

XBenotto18 wrote...

just pointing out the obvious

you dont need to pms

you can either accept it and get over it or continue to whine a about
it till the cows come home, preferably away from here though.

 [Spam Image removed by Moderator] 

OP, Why dont you just accept the dalogue wheel

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 25 février 2011 - 04:02 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Naitaka wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Well youre playing Hawke, not you........regardless of how bioware spins it hawke is essentially another shepard, its TBD is we will get more than one game out of it, but odds seem high,

Unexpected to you could be a normal response to others........, but thats how paraphrasing works, its one of the weaker parts of the entire voiced protagonist, but its there for numerous good reasons

That's my main gripe with the game. The fact is that it's NOT the same type of game as DA:O and Bioware could well have made that clear in their marketing strategy. Instead we get this BS about how this is exactly like DA:O only better. They shouldn't have given people false expectation of the game in the first place. Especially with the whole "pre-order months before we release concrete information and get your Signature Edition" marketing campaign, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Fair enough, I guess I figured when they announced hawke they would go this route and I was ok with it, but I understand your sentiments

[Helena Tylena]

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

Well, you answered that one yourself in your third paragraph: tone icons.

[topster88]

Harcken wrote...

I don't mind the paraphrasing as much as I do the icons. Whereas in DAO I was picking options all over the place, it feels like DA2 pushes me to picking one Hawke: good hawke, funny hawke, or jerk hawke.

Indeed. That really takes out the ambiguity from the game. Kind of like how in fable 3 there really weren't any morally ambiguous choices because the game flat-out told you which were good and bad.

[DrunkenMonkey]

OKAY EVERYBODY IS A TROLL!!!!!

and i like the wheel

[aksoileau]

So a list is better than a wheel?

[topster88]

MorningBird wrote...

And read my explanation on page 2.

I did. The problem is that many of the options are NOT merely extentions of the blurb they show

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I'm sorry, but I would take the dialouge system any day. Its simpler than reading a large list of text choices like if your reading a sushi menu.

[XBenotto18]

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

 [Spam image removed by Moderator] 

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 25 février 2011 - 04:03 .

[topster88]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...


It doesnt have to obvious it just has to make sense to a reasoning mind...........

i.e how did we get from there to here...........its not like you had to make some crazy mental leap to get there.......or maybe you did

of course it's easy to see how the blurb and the spoken responses fit AFTER the fact, the problem is not knowing the spoken response BEFORE you choose your response

[Vicious]

Bioware literally can't win. I remember people hating the ME wheel for various reasons. Here's a gem:



People complaining about how in ME1, choosing the [shoot wrex] option on the wheel actually had Shepard *gasp* SHOOT WREX!



Just sad.

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

And read my explanation on page 2.

I did. The problem is that many of the options are NOT merely extentions of the blurb they show

Yes they are, use your brain a little bit, just because it didnt meet your expectation doesnt mean its not a legitimate paraphrase....

[topster88]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Well, you answered that one yourself in your third paragraph: tone icons.

I was being kind of sarcastic there. How vague little icons are more honest indicators of what you will say than the actual words you are shown.

[FieryDove]

DrunkenMonkey wrote...

OKAY EVERYBODY IS A TROLL!!!!!
and i like the wheel

They should  have made it a triangle then there would be 0 complaints.