348 réponses à ce sujet

[topster88]

XBenotto18 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

 [Spam image removed by Moderator] 

How ironic that you're doing more trolling in this thread than anyone

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 25 février 2011 - 04:05 .

[nelly21]

Tooly McToolbag says...



(Insert haughty voice)



What has happened to BioWare? I recently played the demo and upon doing so, I was most discouraged. I was unable to keep up with the speed of the combat which indubitably means that it has been dumbed down (have to insert key phrases). Furthermore, while I have no experience in game production myself, my 30+ years of gaming have made me an obvious expert at making successful games and it is quite obvious that this will not be a successful game. Not that it should be mind you as high sales numbers invariably mean that the game has been made for the lowest common denominator (remember key phrases) and would not be worthy of my time.



In summation, I believe that this game is utter garbage based on my 30 minute demo playthrough. I shall be canceling my pre-order post haste and surely, I will be only one of the millions of betrayed RPG fans who will be doing the same. My palette will only be reserved for the truly mature fare, such as the Witcher. In the mean time, I will make the entirely reasonable request of having BioWare refund my pre-order forthwith. What's that? They aren't selling me the game? Oh you poor simpleton! When we intellectuals make our demands, we get them without question!





Sincerely,



Tooly McToolbag



RIP RPG: 1970-2011

[AtreiyaN7]

topster88 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Why don't you and the OP commiserate together over the death of gaming in private - where no one else has to listen to you. And it's "generation".

Oh poor you, being forced into listening to other people's opinions

Oh wait, you aren't forced to. Nevermind.

In case you didn't notice, there is at keast one existing thread discussing the dialogue wheel and another gigantic thread for feedback on the demo, which, if you were serious, you should probably be posting in instead of starting another thread. Also, that comment was directed at the other poster who happened to be laying the blame for all evils in the gaming world at the feet of console players.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but it's hard to resist sometimes.

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...


It doesnt have to obvious it just has to make sense to a reasoning mind...........

i.e how did we get from there to here...........its not like you had to make some crazy mental leap to get there.......or maybe you did

of course it's easy to see how the blurb and the spoken responses fit AFTER the fact, the problem is not knowing the spoken response BEFORE you choose your response

That not a problem its a preference

[MannyJabrielle]

I'm not overly fond of the dialogue wheel either. I wasn't too keen on it in ME either. My reason is it's a lack of control over how my character responds. With the DA:O dialogue, sure it was predictable, but you knew what you were gonna say. With the wheel, it's more like in a tabletop game where a player says "Ok, I'm gonna confront the NPC about this or that", and the DM makes up what the player's character actually says for them instead of letting the player decide.



Yes, it works, but it is a bit of grandstanding by the DM, and the player may feel bored or not have much fun with someone else deciding specifics for their character.



It does make me want to play through just to see what the other options actually say when you choose them.



Yes, BTW, signed up recently, please flame with "troll" because I didn't switch over my account when the old NWN boards came over here to bioware social nor do I haunt the forums 24/7 so I know the contents of every single thread :-p



I DO however like the character having a voice. Just wish the text and dialogue was more of a WYSIWYG situation.

[topster88]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

That not a problem its a preference

You're saying that you prefer to not know what the response it before youa ctually pcik it?

[XBenotto18]

topster88 wrote...

XBenotto18 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

 [Spam image removed by Moderator] 

How ironic that you're doing more trolling in this thread than anyone

YOUR THE ONE WITH THE F*CKING PROBLEM ABOUT DAII AND STARTED THIS DUMB THREAD.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 25 février 2011 - 04:06 .

[topster88]

nelly21 wrote...

Tooly McToolbag says...

(Insert haughty voice)

What has happened to BioWare? I recently played the demo and upon doing so, I was most discouraged. I was unable to keep up with the speed of the combat which indubitably means that it has been dumbed down (have to insert key phrases). Furthermore, while I have no experience in game production myself, my 30+ years of gaming have made me an obvious expert at making successful games and it is quite obvious that this will not be a successful game. Not that it should be mind you as high sales numbers invariably mean that the game has been made for the lowest common denominator (remember key phrases) and would not be worthy of my time.

In summation, I believe that this game is utter garbage based on my 30 minute demo playthrough. I shall be canceling my pre-order post haste and surely, I will be only one of the millions of betrayed RPG fans who will be doing the same. My palette will only be reserved for the truly mature fare, such as the Witcher. In the mean time, I will make the entirely reasonable request of having BioWare refund my pre-order forthwith. What's that? They aren't selling me the game? Oh you poor simpleton! When we intellectuals make our demands, we get them without question!


Sincerely,

Tooly McToolbag

RIP RPG: 1970-2011

I loled, but here's the thing: A demo's purpose is to show what the full game is about. What the demo conveyed is that the dialogue options will be thuroughly misleading.

[DrunkenMonkey]

this thread=my childhood

[Sith Reaper]

XRed_RumX wrote...

Can't agree with you more op, I blame the consoles for games being dumbed down.

Good gracious, the terms thrown around this forum astound me. A feature is evolved to give more emotional impact and cinematic presentation and fluidity, and suddenly it is "dumbed down." No explanation as to what makes it 'dumber', or how it might not be a good feature, just blatant complaints to any new feature than that of previous games.

Also, the argument of consoles somehow bringing a change to gameplay is completely ridiculous, as if console players have some kind of mental challenge compared to various high-horse PC players. I am a PC player, and I think the alienation of console players from the PC base is completelty disrespectful, and shameful to the entire community. 

[topster88]

XBenotto18 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

XBenotto18 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

But it is obvious.

Read the example I gave in the OP. How was that at all obvious?

 [Spam image removed by Moderator] 

How ironic that you're doing more trolling in this thread than anyone

YOUR THE ONE WITH THE F*CKING PROBLEM ABOUT DAII AND STARTED THIS DUMB THREAD.

http://www.musicwith...-and-bow-10.gif

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 25 février 2011 - 04:08 .

[WuWeiWu]

topster88 wrote...

I love how people keep saying "well that's, like, your opinion, man" yet no one seems to be able to answer the simple question:

Why don't they just write out the full response instead of blurbs?

That wasn't the main thrust of your post, so it didn't receive an adequate response. I believe the reason BioWare went with the radial speech menu as opposed to lists of dialogues is due to the idea that a list of diologues did not fit well nor support the vision BioWare had for the game.

BioWare has stated (somewhere) that the radial speech menu was to promote a fluid feel to speech, much like the fluid feel they are attempting to add to combat and the ten year time-gap the story spans. Not only does it make sense to use a radial speech menu as opposed to lists of dialogue with regard to DA2's game design and philosophy, it allows for a more involved dialogue.

Which doesn't really answer your question. The reason they don't write out the full response as opposed to blurbs with a 'tone' icon is... well... foregoing the paraphrase and 'tone' icon defeats the entire purpose of the radial menu. One issue with both a radial menu and a list of diologue is tone - you may read it one way, but your character speaks it another. Using tone icons and paraphrasing alleviates that issue almost entirely.

I feel as if the iconned radial speech menu serves DA2's game design far better than a list of dialogue, which is a conclusion that doesn't lend weight over either system - merely saying that it is the better system for DA2. In my opinion, and all that. But I'm right.

Modifié par WuWeiWu, 25 février 2011 - 03:58 .

[MorningBird]

topster88 wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

And read my explanation on page 2.

I did. The problem is that many of the options are NOT merely extentions of the blurb they show

1. Still removes the echo effect if the 'written' and 'spoken' dialogue is split up.
2. Still removes the on-screen clutter that would occur if the entire dialogue string were written out.
3. Still obvious because of the tone icons.

Also, I vote you make a poll.  Polls are nicer, and give a better indication of community opinion.

Plus, I like polls.

[JrayM16]

topster88 wrote...

I love how people keep saying "well that's, like, your opinion, man" yet no one seems to be able to answer the simple question:

Why don't they just write out the full response instead of blurbs?

Because I would rather choose my tone than exact words.  Tone is more important to me in dialogue.

[Helena Tylena]

topster88 wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Well, you answered that one yourself in your third paragraph: tone icons.

I was being kind of sarcastic there. How vague little icons are more honest indicators of what you will say than the actual words you are shown.

In DA:O you had to guess what tone you used, or how it would be interpreted by the people around you. It's a balancing act. Neither system is perfect. Nor is either of them better than the other, in my opinion.

[Cloaking_Thane]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

That not a problem its a preference

You're saying that you prefer to not know what the response it before youa ctually pcik it?

No I'm saying the dialouge wheel with a voiced protagonist holds more immersion for me because of the more.....cinematic qualities to me.

That is my preference, moreover the paraphasing in all the BW games I've played roughly 90% accurate, sure I've raised a few eyebrows but IMO the bad outweighs the good hands down

[Haussier]

i'm honestly not sure why they went with the paraphase but meh doesn't matter to me. (i think someone said some of the response were to long to list completely, probably wrong)
If you play pc someone will mod it so you get to see exactly what your saying.

Modifié par Haussier, 25 février 2011 - 04:00 .

[Vicious]

I believe that this game is utter garbage based on my 30 minute demo playthrough.

epic

[The_mango55]

This has probably come up before, but I'll state it again anyway.



Have you ever played a game with fully voiced PC dialogue where you select the exact words your character says?



If so, do you not realize how boring it is to listen to your character say the exact same thing you just read?

[MasterSamson88]

topster88 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

That not a problem its a preference

You're saying that you prefer to not know what the response it before youa ctually pcik it?

He's saying based on what the paraphrase is and what the icon is, he has a good enough idea of what the PC will say. And I agree with him. I don't really see the need to have Hawke's script in front of me, choose from it, and have him repeat the same thing I just read.

[XBenotto18]

topster88 wrote...
http://www.musicwith...-and-bow-10.gif

Is that what your mommy plays with when no one cares about your problems?


Edit: must be new to the internet, Cant even post a pic.

Modifié par XBenotto18, 25 février 2011 - 04:03 .

[Helena Tylena]

Haussier wrote...
(i think someone said some of the response were to long to list completely, probably wrong)

Actually, I don't think this is a bad thing to assume is a possibility. Paraphrasing allows you to say two lines in a row, for instance, while putting it all down sort of limits that.

[Kingthlayer]

NeroSparda wrote...

XRed_RumX wrote...

Can't agree with you more op, I blame the consoles for games being dumbed down.

Bull. I'll bet a thousand bucks that one day that an PC exclusive series somehow gets dumbed down.

PCs have exclusive series?  Other than WoW?  Which is already by far one of the most dumbed down games ever?

[MJRick]

SoulRebel_1979 wrote...

Look, let me explain something to you. I'm not Mr. Lebowski. You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That or His Dudeness... Duder... or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.

This man speaks the truth

[NRO TYN]

topster88 wrote...

I keep hearing how Mass Effect was highly commended for it's "intuitive" dialogue system, but even in Mass Effect it was horrible. Really, what's the point in dialogue options if you don't actually end up saying what you select? What exactly is wrong with writing out the whole line and having the PC say exactly that?

Case in point: I was playing the DA2 demo (and you know what i thought would make Origins better? Having to mash the A button over and over again instead of simply auto-attacking) and *spoilers* when Carver died, you're given the option to say "He won't be alone". I was thinking hell yeah, that means he's gonna say something like "We're going to send a crap-load of darkspawn to the afterlife as well". But no, he says "at least father will have some company". Bullcrap.

I did notice however that there's a helpful little picture that appears in the center of the circle to tell you what the tone the line has when you highlight it. It seems to me that that vague little picture is a far more intuitive indicator of what you're going to say than the blurbs are. So why not just cut out the middle man, and instead of having blurbs just have the choices be "Good Reply" "Sarcastic Reply" "Evil Reply" and "Neutral Reply"? At least that way the choices aren't misleading and the player isn't being disiusioned into thinking that they actually have control of what the PC says. <_<

I have to agree with you i would have enjoyed the old style with chossing lines to say,but eh what can we do this is the new age of RPG dialogue times change.

But the one thing that urk me is when i choose to say "We can use the help" and Hawke decides to say Sure with your help we can etc...WHY NOT SAY WE CAN USE THE HELP lol but yea times change