74 réponses à ce sujet

[Guesswhotoo]

Well I disagree. Like I said more levels to gain = more fun. and there are no games with "dead levels" they all let you tweek stats somehow and no matter how dull you think it is, its always fun to get your character better stats no matter what each and every time. Gaining levels is what drives you to keep going. tht and the story. But hey, those are critical aspects of any RPG! but i cannot stress enough the levels part.

[Sabresandiego]

One downside of meaningful leveling is that you spend the whole game trying to build the character you want, and when you finally have the character you want the game is over... I actually prefer games which let me have my ideal character working through most of the game.

[Roachbugg]

Levels only need to correspond with how the game it self progresses for instance if after 10 years of killing people and such you are not a bad ass something is wrong if levels match with how awesome you character is that's all. having level for the sake of grinding for levels makes me squirm and think of MMOS like AION *shivers* but if you like leveling go play that.

[marshalleck]

Guesswhotoo wrote...

are you freaking serious?!? WTF! the best part of any RPG is the leveling up and Bioware is only allowing you to reach a weak ass level 20?? the effin blows!i mean seriously WTF? oh let me guess here comes everybody defending this now saying "Oh it dont matter hurr derr cuz like if each level you get to pick more stats to upgrade then whats it matter if its 20 levels or 50"?
it matters cuz everytime i gain a level its like a milestone i reached and i feel like i accomplished something and they are only letting me do that 20 times max. thats bull crap.
and i bet all you people out there who are defending this let me guess - would you like an RPG if it only let you level up to say Level 5 and it was a 60 hour game? what would you say then? "Oh it dont matter cuz i like that stuff yay!"

calm down, petulant child

[nicodeemus327]

Sabresandiego wrote...

One downside of meaningful leveling is that you spend the whole game trying to build the character you want, and when you finally have the character you want the game is over... I actually prefer games which let me have my ideal character working through most of the game.

I think you'll get that with DA2 for the most part. Look at the talent trees. You have a number of key abilites that you can get early on and can later tweak. You won't have to wait half the game to get a certain character defining ability.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 25 février 2011 - 09:10 .

[Guesswhotoo]

I miss playing FF 3 for my snes and being able to level up to 99 if I wanted to. There was a small patch if grass in the overworld map where you could only fight Tyrannosaurs and they would give you mega XP and I would sit there walking back and forth fighting these things gaining level after level. There was no such thing as a cap back then. Some mandatory cap the dev's put in place to stop you leveling. No you were only "Capped" because the game couldnt go past level 99 to 100. and if I wanted to grind to get that high level I could to my hearts content. I dont like how it is lately with RPG's.

[Merced652]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

One downside of meaningful leveling is that you spend the whole game trying to build the character you want, and when you finally have the character you want the game is over... I actually prefer games which let me have my ideal character working through most of the game.

I think you'll get that with DA2 for the most part. Look at the talent trees. You have a number of key abilites that you can get early on and can later tweak. You won't have to wait half the game to get a certain character defining ability.

Which means your only incentive becomes story, much like me2. Except me2's wasn't good enough to play through more than twice at most. <_<

[nicodeemus327]

Guesswhotoo wrote...

I miss playing FF 3 for my snes and being able to level up to 99 if I wanted to. There was a small patch if grass in the overworld map where you could only fight Tyrannosaurs and they would give you mega XP and I would sit there walking back and forth fighting these things gaining level after level. There was no such thing as a cap back then. Some mandatory cap the dev's put in place to stop you leveling. No you were only "Capped" because the game couldnt go past level 99 to 100. and if I wanted to grind to get that high level I could to my hearts content. I dont like how it is lately with RPG's.

I recently played FF7 and leveling up is meaningless and trivial. The only leveling up process that's meaningfull is materia (which worked pretty well imo).

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 25 février 2011 - 09:15 .

[nuclearpengu1nn]

level 99 - 100

check out the demo when you level up

one of the locked talents it says level 99 required

i saw this on rogue class btw

[nicodeemus327]

Merced652 wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

One downside of meaningful leveling is that you spend the whole game trying to build the character you want, and when you finally have the character you want the game is over... I actually prefer games which let me have my ideal character working through most of the game.

I think you'll get that with DA2 for the most part. Look at the talent trees. You have a number of key abilites that you can get early on and can later tweak. You won't have to wait half the game to get a certain character defining ability.

Which means your only incentive becomes story, much like me2. Except me2's wasn't good enough to play through more than twice at most. <_<

Disagree completely. The character stories in ME2 were some of the best in gaming.

[Guesswhotoo]

and another thing I hate about RPG's nowadays is the enemies leveling with you. why do dev's even put this in place??? Bringing up FF 3 again, at the beginning of the game you'd start out at level 1 and you'd typically fight easy enemies like a typical rat or something. Even at level 1 it was still easy but when you gain even more levels, say up to level 10 and you go back to that spot where you fought that rat and you could 1 hit it to death. easy as pie! but with enemies scaling with you that week ass rat is just as strong as you are. it never gets easier to kill ! its stupid. If I gain 30 levels and an enemy that was sort of tough for me to kill at level 5 or so should be EASY AS HELL for me to kill now at level 30. Which damn developer ever thought up this level scaling crap cuz it wasn't like this always. if I am level 50 and I go back to fight an enemy I fought at level 1 I damn well want to be able to kill it 1 hit! level scaling makes that enemy the same strength you are so you feel as tho you never progress and get stronger. WTF is the point in that?!? its like these dev's make these games more difficult than they need to be with all the number cruncing and stat formulas and stuff. why do you need that at all? you dont! Just implelment a Level system, make it so when you gain levels you gradually fight harder enemies as you level up, rinse repeat. and then when you go back you can kick that week little rats ass! i swear it seems to me all these dev's nowadays make their jobs harder than they need to with all this complex number crunching data and what not. you really dont need it. like what was up with the way they calculated damage in Origins?!? I seriously sat there and thought about it for a while one night and wondered if it was at all necesary to do all that.

[nicodeemus327]

Guesswhotoo wrote...

and another thing I hate about RPG's nowadays is the enemies leveling with you. why do dev's even put this in place??? Bringing up FF 3 again, at the beginning of the game you'd start out at level 1 and you'd typically fight easy enemies like a typical rat or something. Even at level 1 it was still easy but when you gain even more levels, say up to level 10 and you go back to that spot where you fought that rat and you could 1 hit it to death. easy as pie! but with enemies scaling with you that week ass rat is just as strong as you are. it never gets easier to kill ! its stupid. If I gain 30 levels and an enemy that was sort of tough for me to kill at level 5 or so should be EASY AS HELL for me to kill now at level 30. Which damn developer ever thought up this level scaling crap cuz it wasn't like this always. if I am level 50 and I go back to fight an enemy I fought at level 1 I damn well want to be able to kill it 1 hit! level scaling makes that enemy the same strength you are so you feel as tho you never progress and get stronger. WTF is the point in that?!? its like these dev's make these games more difficult than they need to be with all the number cruncing and stat formulas and stuff. why do you need that at all? you dont! Just implelment a Level system, make it so when you gain levels you gradually fight harder enemies as you level up, rinse repeat. and then when you go back you can kick that week little rats ass! i swear it seems to me all these dev's nowadays make their jobs harder than they need to with all this complex number crunching data and what not. you really dont need it. like what was up with the way they calculated damage in Origins?!? I seriously sat there and thought about it for a while one night and wondered if it was at all necesary to do all that.

I want challenging instead of easy. Having the enemies scale with you achieves that.

[Torowa]

Guesswhotoo wrote...

I miss playing FF 3 for my snes and being able to level up to 99 if I wanted to. There was a small patch if grass in the overworld map where you could only fight Tyrannosaurs and they would give you mega XP and I would sit there walking back and forth fighting these things gaining level after level. There was no such thing as a cap back then. Some mandatory cap the dev's put in place to stop you leveling. No you were only "Capped" because the game couldnt go past level 99 to 100. and if I wanted to grind to get that high level I could to my hearts content. I dont like how it is lately with RPG's.

That's not so much "the old days" as it is a reference to the JRPG model. Note that almost all of those 99 levels in FFVI were just stat increases. The western model with levels that generally land closer to level 20 is certainly not a "late" development, the fixed level 20 system of old D&D pre-dates the arrival of the JRPG.

BW games have always hewn close to the western model. I no more expect them to make a 99 level game with just stat increase leveling than I expect SquareEnix to give me a character creator.

[Guesswhotoo]

it was still challenging. you can have both at the same time you know

[Torowa]

Guesswhotoo wrote...

wall of text about level scaling

There are legitimate problems with level scaling. But your wall of text doesn't encourage discussion, I stopped after the first line. FWIW, I prefer games that don't have it with major caveat that they are well-designed enough that you don't have to grind. JRPGs are infamous for requiring hours of grinding just to gain levels, so that you can move to the next area.

[Roseking]

Guesswhotoo wrote...
WTF! the best part of any RPG is the leveling

I strongly disagee with that statment. 

[nicodeemus327]

Torowa wrote...

Guesswhotoo wrote...

wall of text about level scaling

There are legitimate problems with level scaling. But your wall of text doesn't encourage discussion, I stopped after the first line. FWIW, I prefer games that don't have it with major caveat that they are well-designed enough that you don't have to grind. JRPGs are infamous for requiring hours of grinding just to gain levels, so that you can move to the next area.

I never liked level grinding myself either. I feel leveling should be a way to ration content. You can't throw every option at the player all at once.

[rob_k]

There's a very small game that's a turn based strategy game called Disgaea that lets you get to level 9999 and once you reach that, you can start again from level 1 and hit level 9999 again to be even more powerful.

Maybe you'd find that game enjoyable?

(I enjoy the game myself, and I think that game would keep you busy for a long time if what you want is levelling.)

Edit: Heck, the damage numbers you can do the game are insane as are the amount of hitpoints and stats you can gain.

Modifié par rob_k, 25 février 2011 - 09:38 .

[Guesswhotoo]

But why make a game hard to develop by implementing a headache inducing method of calculating damage? i mean seriously have any of you looked at how they calculated damage in Origins? its so unnecesary! why cant they make it so that you weapon will do such and such damage if you are this level and this strength and keep it simple instead of that Einstein calculation to figure out the damage your weapon will do? i seriously think they give themselves and the players unnecesary headaches by implementing that. i cant be the only one who has tried wrapping my brain around how much damage my character will do. it was so messed up completely!

[Aesieru]

Merced652 wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

One downside of meaningful leveling is that you spend the whole game trying to build the character you want, and when you finally have the character you want the game is over... I actually prefer games which let me have my ideal character working through most of the game.

I think you'll get that with DA2 for the most part. Look at the talent trees. You have a number of key abilites that you can get early on and can later tweak. You won't have to wait half the game to get a certain character defining ability.

Which means your only incentive becomes story, much like me2. Except me2's wasn't good enough to play through more than twice at most. <_<

DLC sometimes pushes us to play more.

Modifié par Aesieru, 25 février 2011 - 09:36 .

[nicodeemus327]

Guesswhotoo wrote...

But why make a game hard to develop by implementing a headache inducing method of calculating damage? i mean seriously have any of you looked at how they calculated damage in Origins? its so unnecesary! why cant they make it so that you weapon will do such and such damage if you are this level and this strength and keep it simple instead of that Einstein calculation to figure out the damage your weapon will do? i seriously think they give themselves and the players unnecesary headaches by implementing that. i cant be the only one who has tried wrapping my brain around how much damage my character will do. it was so messed up completely!

I'd suggest looking at the character sheet in DAO. That'd help with your problem.

[Guesswhotoo]

I think I will check out that Disgaea game

[Merced652]

Aesieru wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

One downside of meaningful leveling is that you spend the whole game trying to build the character you want, and when you finally have the character you want the game is over... I actually prefer games which let me have my ideal character working through most of the game.

I think you'll get that with DA2 for the most part. Look at the talent trees. You have a number of key abilites that you can get early on and can later tweak. You won't have to wait half the game to get a certain character defining ability.

Which means your only incentive becomes story, much like me2. Except me2's wasn't good enough to play through more than twice at most. <_<

DLC sometimes pushes us to play more.

True, i actually bought kasumi and the LotSB but i have such a general disinterest in me2 that i haven't bothered to even play lotsb, though everyone says its excellent. I was unimpressed with the kasumi one, but on a whole it was probably better than any DLC of DA:Os.

Modifié par Merced652, 25 février 2011 - 09:48 .

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

marshalleck wrote...

Guesswhotoo wrote...

are you freaking serious?!? WTF! the best part of any RPG is the leveling up and Bioware is only allowing you to reach a weak ass level 20?? the effin blows!i mean seriously WTF? oh let me guess here comes everybody defending this now saying "Oh it dont matter hurr derr cuz like if each level you get to pick more stats to upgrade then whats it matter if its 20 levels or 50"?
it matters cuz everytime i gain a level its like a milestone i reached and i feel like i accomplished something and they are only letting me do that 20 times max. thats bull crap.
and i bet all you people out there who are defending this let me guess - would you like an RPG if it only let you level up to say Level 5 and it was a 60 hour game? what would you say then? "Oh it dont matter cuz i like that stuff yay!"

calm down, petulant child

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