139 réponses à ce sujet

[TheGreyGhost119]

jeweledleah wrote...

1.  neither Ash nor Kaidan got promoted in order to stop them from investigating reapers etc - its something that their detractors like to imagine, to justify the hate.

I never said they were promoted to stop them from investigating the reapers, I said it SEEMS like they were promoted just to shut them up about Shepard. 

Them being promoted doesn't matter in any case, as the fact that they didn't defend Shepard at all is an insult enough.

2.  how do you know they didn't say anyhting.

How do you know they did say anything?  I would think the fact that nothing is said about it is a better indication that they didn't than they did.

why is Virmire survivor's position so classified.  why are they in
Terminus systems.  are they investigating the dissapearing colonies for
fun?

What does their position being classified have to do with anything?  The reason they are in the Terminus systems, as well as their reasoning for investigating the colonies, is actually explained on Horizon.

3. what alliance engineer?

As Zulu already answered, Ken.  The fact that you seemed to miss a lot of very obvious things kind of makes me sad.

Modifié par TheGreyGhost119, 01 mars 2011 - 04:28 .

[Dirty_Dan]

Jack, Samara, Grunt, sorry but I hate you. Ash, Wrex, Zaeed's evil twin, come on in

[jeweledleah]

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

1.  neither Ash nor Kaidan got promoted in order to stop them from investigating reapers etc - its something that their detractors like to imagine, to justify the hate.

I never said they were promoted to stop them from investigating the reapers, I said it SEEMS like they were promoted just to shut them up about Shepard. 

Them being promoted doesn't matter in any case, as the fact that they didn't defend Shepard at all is an insult enough.

2.  how do you know they didn't say anyhting.

How do you know they did say anything?  I would think the fact that nothing is said about it is a better indication that they didn't than they did.

why is Virmire survivor's position so classified.  why are they in
Terminus systems.  are they investigating the dissapearing colonies for
fun?

What does their position being classified have to do with anything?  The reason they are in the Terminus systems, as well as their reasoning for investigating the colonies, is actually explained on Horizon.

3. what alliance engineer?

As Zulu already answered, Ken.  The fact that you seemed to miss a lot of very obvious things kind of makes me sad.

1.  what seems to you makes as much of a good reason as what seems to them and what seems to VS is that you faked your own death and now are working with terrorists, and refuse to explain why did you not try any other options.
2. how do you know they didn't defend shepard.  how do you now if the reason why they are classified and working on remote project is not directly related to them defending shepard.  they told you that they were investigating possible cerberus involvement but all things concidered do you relaly think they told you everything?  they don't trust you at this point, why the hell would they reveal any classified information at all? how would Ken possibly know what Adnerson and VS did, other then the fact that they lost political clout?
3. I discounted Ken, because Ken was never really "alliance"  he worked for alliance, but he wasn't a truly alliance man.  he just wanted to do some good for humanity, he doesn't even know much about cerberus or their methods, only that they are trying to do something when in his rather uninformed opinion - alliance, Anderson included - does not.

it seems to me that I'm not the one missing things, or refusing to concider that we might just not know everything there is to know yet.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 01 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[TheGreyGhost119]

jeweledleah wrote...

stuff

So your whole stance is basically that because the game never flat out tells you that they didn't defend you, they had to defend you?  

Well then let me retort with, you're wrong because the game never says that they did defend you.

Yay!  Pointless arguments!

I'm not saying that they absolutely did not defend Shepard, but from what we are given in the game and what we currently know, there was nothing done on their part to speak of.

Could they easily pull out that shows that they did defend you?  Sure, they could.  They haven't, though.  So until they do, I continue to view them the same.

Modifié par TheGreyGhost119, 01 mars 2011 - 08:36 .

[Iakus]

My explanation:

Horizon=bad writing.

Thus the need for DLC, to correct that error.

[jeweledleah]

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

stuff

So your whole stance is basically that because the game never flat out tells you that they didn't defend you, they had to defend you?  

Well then let me retort with, you're wrong because the game never says that they did defend you.

Yay!  Pointless arguments!

I'm not saying that they absolutely did not defend Shepard, but from what we are given in the game and what we currently know, there was nothing done on their part to speak of.

Could they easily pull out that shows that they did defend you?  Sure, they could.  They haven't, though.  So until they do, I continue to view them the same.

my whole argument is that you have as much of a leg to stand on when claiming that VS are traitorous jerks as people who say that they aren't.  except when taking into concideration the evidence that old squad members are faced with - shepards working with cerberus shoudl have given Tali and Garrus a hell of a lot more to think about, them just going - "oh its shepard, I'm in" was...not very good writing.  almost as bad as VS flipping out as much as they did and Shepard going all :  DERP, BUT I'M SHEPARD, YOU SHOUDL JUST TRUST ME.  At least VS had a reason to react badly to shepard being with cerberus

[Zulu_DFA]

I take it the VS has been sticking with Anderson, and even he was told eventually to STFU about Shepard. So there really was no point in anybody "defending" Shepard.

[blank1]

I'd be willing to sacrifice Thane, Zaeed, and if it really came down to it, Kasumi. Thane is going to die anyways, and he's uber convicted about leaving this world a better place before he leaves. Sacrificing his life for another, or for many, seems like a way he'd like to die, as opposed to slowly succumbing to disease and waning away on a hospital bed. That's a crappy way to go. Zaeed I'd sacrifice because he's the only member of the crew that's really a merc when it comes down to it. I don't have any confidence in him at all. Kasumi I'd sacrifice if I had to because I wouldn't want to sacrifice anyone else on my squad.

[TheGreyGhost119]

jeweledleah wrote...

my whole argument is that you have as much of a leg to stand on when claiming that VS are traitorous jerks as people who say that they aren't.

Yeah.  I agreed on that already.  I'm not trying to convince anyone they are tratiors or anything of the sort.  All I said was that my Shepard is hurt by, what appears to be, Kaiden not doing anything to defend his name after his death.

except when taking into concideration the evidence that old squad members are faced with - shepards working with cerberus shoudl have given Tali and Garrus a hell of a lot more to think about, them just going - "oh its shepard, I'm in" was...not very good writing.

Tali had her reservations about Cerberus from the get go.  She honestly shouldn't have a problem with Shepard because of everything he did for her (at least in my game), so it only makes sense for her to trust Shepard and still have her reservations about Cerberus. (which is exactly how it is represented in the game)

But I will agree that Garrus really didn't give a crap about Cerberus.  Would I say it was bad writing, or out of character?  Not really.  Garrus is a renegade and looks up to Shepard, so he can probably get over working with Cerberus if it is for the greater good.

almost as bad as VS flipping out as much as they did and Shepard going all :  DERP, BUT I'M SHEPARD, YOU SHOUDL JUST TRUST ME.  At least VS had a reason to react badly to shepard being with cerberus

They really didn't have a reason to react the way they did.  It makes sense for them not to trust Cerberus, and it makes sense for them not be willing to work with Cerberus, but they really have no reason to act like Shepard is a complete idiot who is being duped by Cerberus (especially considering they had JUST encountered the collectors and have evidence that Cerberus wasn't behind it)

To be fair, it comes off better if they happen to be your LI, as they send you that email afterwards.  However, my Shepard didn't hazve Kaiden as an LI, so it just comes off as him being a big douche in my game.  That's the biggest reason my Shepard takes it so badly.

[Meshakhad2]

None. Because Ashley would never forgive me for sacrificing others to save her. Kaidan's death hit her hard enough.

[brightblueink]

I've roleplayed my main Femshep as having knowingly sacrificed Ashley because she was in love with Kaidan, and has since gone down a slippery slope of now being willing to do violent Renegade actions if it means somehow protecting people she cares about. If she had to sacrifice people for Kaidan? She'd probably do it.

And then go insane afterward.

[Bloggers99]

They were jerks. At least Liara was civil about the reunion. If the ultimate sacrifice means losing someone to save them again, no dice. They can die in a fire.

[Actinguy1]

Assuming I've only my team of ME2 survivors?  Four died (Thane, Grunt, Miranda, & Tali), which only leaves me with six.

My VS survivor was Ashley, the unrequitted love of my life.  I would sacrifice myself in a heart beat to save her.  I went into the suicide mission knowing that, even though she was not with me, if I was even slightly successful it would help her.

So my gut instinct was: Everybody.  I'll sacrifice everybody, I'll shoot down the Alliance itself if that's what it takes to save her.

But then I thought about the members who are still on my team.  In order of who I would sacrifice:

Samara - Entirely expendable.  My Shephard has zero connection with Samara.

Legion - A robot?  I'm going to choose a robot over the love of my life?  What am I, a Star Wars fan?  Sorry Legion.  You're outta here.

Jacob - Jacob's a good follower.  I'd like to keep him around.  But if I have to make a choice...well...this wouldn't be the first time.  Between good guy and love of my life?  See ya Jacob.  You did a good job, you'll be missed, but so long.

Jack - And here's where I start to pause.  I had a brief fling with Jack, nothing serious, but it softened her a little bit.  So she starts to trust me, probably the first creature in the entire universe she has trusted in a long time...and I kill her so I can be with a girl with hair?  I don't know...my Shepard just isn't like that...but he also wants Ashley more than he wants to save the universe itself.  I just don't know.  I'm not sure he could do it.

Garrus - Tali was the very first one to die in the suicide mission.  I had chose Tali (unloyal) for the vents and Garrus as the Bravo team leader.  My old crew, together once more to bring down the bad guys.  ...except the door got stuck, and Tali died.  I never even particularly liked Tali.  She was okay, don't get me wrong, but she wasn't even the most upsetting death on that mission (that prize goes to Grunt.)  Garrus, on the other hand, I truly bonded with.  He's a great guy, a leader, he cares about his team, I've really gotten to know him as a person (well, a Turian).  I just can't do it.  The answer is no.  I would move heaven and hell to save Ashley...but I wouldn't kill Garrus.

Mordin - I don't even have to think about this one.  Not. A. Chance.  My Shepard is a straight male, and Mordin isn't a romantic option regardless of gender, but you know what?  Ever since he started singing, he's become the new love of my life.  Besides, Mordin is the one who pulled me to safety onto the shuttle during the final cut scene of ME2 (after I saved him from falling off the ledge when the Terminator Baby died).  Hilarious guy, deep character development, saved my life, and a fan of musical theater to boot?   So long Ashley!  ;c)

So...that's my answer.  Of my surviving six, I would sacrifice 3.5  (I'm on the fence with Jack...that would be the hardest decision in the history of Mass Effect!)

EDIT:  I should clarify, for my Shepard's sake, if the big bad said "Give me Samara, Legion, Jacob, and half of Jack and you can get Ashley back", my Shepard would say go to hell.  But if I would absolutely send the entire team in to rescue her, given the opportunity.  If we are, say, holding a line and Samara dies, I would send Legion to fill the gap.  And if Legion died, I would waiver for a moment, and then send Jacob.  And if Jacob died...maybe this can't be done.  Maybe there's no way to save her.  Or maybe there was a way, and I missed it.  That's where I honestly wouldn't know whether I should send Jack or if I should just accept defeat.

But if I accept defeat, I not only failed to save Ashley, I still lost three more people trying to save her.  Almost as many main characters as I lost trying to save the entire galaxy (not including the half of my crew who died so I could say goodbye to Liara.)  So maybe I put Jack up there, hoping she succeeds and we not only save Ashley, but we avenge the other three deaths.

But if Jack dies too?  I just can't go any further.  I've made a horrible mistake, four people died trying to save a girl I have a crush on.  I'm not going to throw my two best friends into the fire.  I'm no longer fit for command.  Garrus is in charge.

Modifié par Actinguy1, 03 mars 2011 - 08:15 .

[ADLegend21]

Bloggers99 wrote...

They were jerks. At least Liara was civil about the reunion. If the ultimate sacrifice means losing someone to save them again, no dice. They can die in a fire.

Liara GAVE you to Cerberus so of course she was okay with yuo working with them since it was up to her. VS had no such knowledge.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Unhappy:
-If Kaiden sacrified.

Happy:
-If Kaiden survives
-kaiden sacrified, but MM romance unlocked for that little bit.