18 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Do you feel it's more fun as an Infiltrator with the slowdown ability when zoomed in, or is it more fun as a soldier, so you can use something like the Avenger assault rifle or a shotgun for CQ?

[Ares Caesar]

Are you asking if its more fun to play a Soldier Sniper or an Infiltrator Sniper?



If you're willing to use the Viper, you'll then have access to AR/Shotgun training for the Infiltrator, so if you were to use the Viper I dont much see the point of being a Soldier Sniper (though the Viper/Revenant combo is pretty fun), as you'd probably want to take the Widow.



I've said this before in other threads, and I'll say the same thing here. I believe the Soldier Sniper is a "more effective" long range sniper/shooter.



Honestly, I felt like it was more satisfying to decloak and assassinate the enemy with a well placed shot(s) to the brain. The Infiltrators Tactical Cloak makes you feel like the Predator in some ways, and I guess that aspect always appealed to me, even when using it as a close range CQC tactic.



The Soldier Sniper is perhaps the "science of sniping," while the Infiltrator Sniper is the "art form of sniping." One is a thing of efficiency, while the other is a thing of beauty.

[Omega-202]

The Viper is pretty effective no matter what the class. With Infiltrators, the long time spent looking down the scope gives you a huge bonus to the relative cooldown time for your powers due to the fact that powers always recharge at the same rate, no matter whether you slow down the outside world or not. Soldiers get more damage out of the Viper due to ARush.

And that's not even mentioning my Vanguard snipers and my Sentinel sniper experiment. Both used the Viper very well and I still stand by my assertion that its the best bonus choice for Vanguards.

[ScroguBlitzen]

 The Soldier gets better use out of the Widow than the Infiltrator.

    AR cools down faster than cloak
    AR does more damage than cloak.

The Infiltrator is the only class that gets maximum power out of the Viper. 

    You get slow time every single zoom
    The slow time doesn't slow down your powers cooldown time

Tony's guide explains how to use the Viper as an Infiltrator:

The Agent- A Guide to the other Infiltrator

The cryo lockdown in this video isn't possible with any other class/weapon combination:

Reaver Infiltrator XBox360 Insanity : Shadow Broker : Azure Landing

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 25 février 2011 - 11:06 .

[RGFrog]

Viper, if you don't have the mattock, is especially effective with the adept class.

I have the Mattock, and on this playthrough I decided it was just more fun with the Viper and the Locust combo.

I didn't like using it with the Infilitrator as the sniper slow down made it harder, at least for me, to shoot multitple head shots.

It's better with Soldier AR, but as with Infiltrator, I just prefer the Widow and would stick with the Mantis until the after the collector mission.

[Null_]

Viper is the Soldier's sniper rifle really. Pop AR and empty whole clip. Before Mattock this was insanely effective.

Widow/Mantis is teh Inflirtator.Assassination Cloak-> Headshot Harbringer mid sentence->Profit

[SocialKnight]

I honestly can't stand the Viper, really. I don't like that it lacks the punch of a sniper rifle. I much prefer the Mantis, and the Widow.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

If anyone Knows anything about guns the viper is more of an assault rifle sniper cross like the M14 "real life gun" I find it the most enjoyAble on either class but it's massively deadly as an infiltrator

[wizardryforever]

SocialKnight wrote...

I honestly can't stand the Viper, really. I don't like that it lacks the punch of a sniper rifle. I much prefer the Mantis, and the Widow.

Me too.  It feels like a pistol with a scope, not a sniper rifle.  Sniper rifle shots have weight and power to them.  The Viper shots are barely more effective than a pistol's.  It's more forgiving if you miss, but that's the only real advantage to it as far as I'm concerned.

Not that it sucks or anything, it just does not appeal to me in the slightest.

[Tony Gunslinger]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

If anyone Knows anything about guns the viper is more of an assault rifle sniper cross like the M14 "real life gun" I find it the most enjoyAble on either class but it's massively deadly as an infiltrator

The Viper reminds me a bit of this:

[Ares Caesar]

The Viper SR offers more of a complete battlefield package. For an Infiltrator using the Mantis its ALL about 1-cloak 1-shot 1-kill... wait wait wait, repeat. The Viper SR affords you enough ammo supply to utilize some of it inbetween cloaks, especially with Cryo Ammo. Often times you'll find that if you havent killed the enemy with a cloaked burst of fire, that they're down to health and can easily be frozen with a single shot followup while inbetween cloaked sniping patterns.



The DPS of the Viper is also higher, and to some people DPS is more important than damage (as some battles can be easier if particular enemies are eliminated from combat early rather than allowed to wreak havoc throughout the fight).



The Mantis/Widow can at times be overkill/ammo wastes. Lets say you miss on a headshot, or the enemy isnt quite dead, you're then often forced to use another precious round which more often than not is overkill damage wise, but you've no control since its 1 shot or no shot at all. The Viper allows for a bit more damage:ammo balance, because you can apply a bit more accurate usage of ammo to the damage required to kill an enemy, rather than spending 2 precious Mantis/Widow rounds when only 1.6 rounds were required.



I'll admit, I'm in the Viper SR camp, but on specific occasion against highly armored boss enemies I may decide to bring the Mantis instead.



One Shot One Kill will always be more "fun" but I guess practicality seems to generally rule for me, and the Viper SR is all about "practicality"

[Sailears]

I agree with the sentiment that the viper is extremely effective, but personally less fun because it feels "messy". You can say the same thing about the scimitar.

[RGFrog]

I'm just glad the enemy ai doesn't use the viper effectively. Were the shots I pull off reversed, I'd be dead more often than not...

[JaegerBane]

SocialKnight wrote...

I honestly can't stand the Viper, really. I don't like that it lacks the punch of a sniper rifle. I much prefer the Mantis, and the Widow.

As others have said the Viper is closer to a hybrid battle rifle than a pure sniper rifle, so obviously if you're looking for something for the whole 'one-shot one-kill' mantra then it isn't for you. The Widow represents this mantra perfectly.

On the other hand, it's by far the most practical and flexible of all the sniper rifles - it's high ammo and relatively high rate of fire allow it to be used in plenty of situations where you wouldn't dream of using sniper rifles, and hence sees a lot of use. At the same time, it DPS is high enough for it to handle the overall sniping role, just not as a one-shotter.

The Widow and the Viper occupy opposite sides of the sniper spectrum, so direct comparisons of them are of limited value, which you prefer will depend on what style you're after and what other weapons you have available.

The Mantis, however, is rubbish. It's damage per shot isn't anywhere near enough to justify its pitiful ammo supply - so low that it can't even take advantage of the +10% extra ammo gauntlets because 10% of it's ammo doesn't actually equate to a single shot. I can think of no situation where using the Mantis is a better option than the Viper, as it won't one-shot anything of Hardcore level or further yet lacks any kind of advantage in any other area.

It's fine early on in the game but when the going gets tough, the only thing the Mantis is genuinely good at is running out of ammo.

Curunen wrote...

I agree with the sentiment that the
viper is extremely effective, but personally less fun because it feels
"messy". You can say the same thing about the scimitar.

Depends on what you consider messy. Personally I prefer weapons with rates of fire and ammo pools large enough so that missing the odd shot isn't a minor catastrophe. It's probably no surprise I prefer the Scimitar just as I prefer the Viper

Modifié par JaegerBane, 27 février 2011 - 03:40 .

[Ares Caesar]

You know, I think part of the "hate" that exists for the Viper is because of the succession of the rifle from the Mantis, then to the Viper, then to the Widow.

You go from using a more high powered single shot Mantis SR, to the high RoF semi automatic Viper SR, then BACK to the high powered single shot Widow SR.

You also get the Viper a fair ways into the game to the point that you've probably just mastered using the Mantis, to then be given an "upgrade weapon" that is a completely different style and are forced to adjust from there.

While I like the multiple options in weapons, I think its simply a bad way to provide upgrades through weapon progression with such stylistically different guns.

[Sailears]

JaegerBane wrote...

*snip*

Curunen wrote...

I agree with the sentiment that the
viper is extremely effective, but personally less fun because it feels
"messy". You can say the same thing about the scimitar.

Depends on what you consider messy. Personally I prefer weapons with rates of fire and ammo pools large enough so that missing the odd shot isn't a minor catastrophe. It's probably no surprise I prefer the Scimitar just as I prefer the Viper

Yeah, for me its the opposite. I like there to be a smooth and efficient flow to things, and using as few actions (shots/powers/whatever) as possible - appeals to my aesthetic tastes.
Makes things a bit more challenging when you screw up though.

[JaegerBane]

Ares Caesar wrote...

You know, I think part of the "hate" that exists for the Viper is because of the succession of the rifle from the Mantis, then to the Viper, then to the Widow.

You go from using a more high powered single shot Mantis SR, to the high RoF semi automatic Viper SR, then BACK to the high powered single shot Widow SR.

You also get the Viper a fair ways into the game to the point that you've probably just mastered using the Mantis, to then be given an "upgrade weapon" that is a completely different style and are forced to adjust from there.

While I like the multiple options in weapons, I think its simply a bad way to provide upgrades through weapon progression with such stylistically different guns.

I think part of this is to do with the terminology used in the codex. All succeeding weaponry is described as being an 'upgrade', but only some of these are straight upgrades and others are better overall but are alternative weapons. This is especially true of shotguns and sniper rifles. Tier 1 weapons tend to be the basic models, tier 2 tends to be alternatives while tier 3 seem to be exagerrated versions of Tier 1. Hence you can end up with an apparent 'upgrade' that functions in manner that may not be to the player's taste.

Of course, what you described above happened in reverse to me. While I didn't dislike the Mantis when I first played a class that carried it, eventually getting access to the Viper was like a breath of fresh air and I stuck with it on my first Soldier (plus I found the Vindicator a little hit and miss).

[Tony Gunslinger]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ares Caesar wrote...

You know, I think part of the "hate" that exists for the Viper is because of the succession of the rifle from the Mantis, then to the Viper, then to the Widow.

You go from using a more high powered single shot Mantis SR, to the high RoF semi automatic Viper SR, then BACK to the high powered single shot Widow SR.

You also get the Viper a fair ways into the game to the point that you've probably just mastered using the Mantis, to then be given an "upgrade weapon" that is a completely different style and are forced to adjust from there.

While I like the multiple options in weapons, I think its simply a bad way to provide upgrades through weapon progression with such stylistically different guns.

I think part of this is to do with the terminology used in the codex. All succeeding weaponry is described as being an 'upgrade', but only some of these are straight upgrades and others are better overall but are alternative weapons. This is especially true of shotguns and sniper rifles. Tier 1 weapons tend to be the basic models, tier 2 tends to be alternatives while tier 3 seem to be exagerrated versions of Tier 1. Hence you can end up with an apparent 'upgrade' that functions in manner that may not be to the player's taste.

Of course, what you described above happened in reverse to me. While I didn't dislike the Mantis when I first played a class that carried it, eventually getting access to the Viper was like a breath of fresh air and I stuck with it on my first Soldier (plus I found the Vindicator a little hit and miss).

I think that's also true for powers like Cryo ammo. If you're using Mantis/Widow in a non-NG+ game, as the enemy level increases, your sniper rifle damage stays at upgrade no. 3 for a very long time, so you'll need to put points into ammo powers like Disruptor and Warp to consistently get OSOK, so Cryo ammo is the last thing you want to invest in.

But once you get the Viper, you don't need defense-stripping ammos as much because you can control the damage, and you can focus on other powers and weapons. OSOK builds have very little crowd-control abilities and doesn't mesh with squadmates well. If you're using Garrus' Overload on a group of enemies, the Mantis/Widow kills only one guy and then by the time you reload, the remaining bunch are still around shooting at you and your team, and sometimes they go back into cover or spread apart, so in the end Garrus' Overload was useless because you could've OSOK the initial target to begin with. With the Viper + Cryo / Incendiary and Garrus' Overload, you can CC them all at once.

That said, I like both the Widow and the Viper. The Widow is a very specialized gun and the challenge/fun is to use it as much as you can, the same reason why you want would want to use the Claymore or the Revy. It's just that using a ranged OSOK weapon all the time can sort of prevent new players from engaging in other aspects of the game.

[termokanden]

jamesp81 wrote...

Do you feel it's more fun as an Infiltrator with the slowdown ability when zoomed in, or is it more fun as a soldier, so you can use something like the Avenger assault rifle or a shotgun for CQ?

I prefer using the Widow for both classes.

I had lots of fun using the Viper on my engineer though.