136 réponses à ce sujet

[tichard]

I really don't understand why they didn't add the on/off friendly fire option on every difficulty level.

To me, it looks like we just need to make a group full of mages and cast AOE spell all the time :'(

[Veen130]

I think the subtitle size should be patched first. Can't read it on my small tv that i use my xbox on and can barely read it on my big tv. Hell, the PC size is fine, why arn't the consoles the same as that. But I agree with some of the posters above that say it will just slow down the combat having friendly fire. According to some of the posters, there FF on Nightmare, so if u want it that bad, play it on that difficulty.

[Matheau]

I don't think the inability for suspension of disbelief qualifies as a legitimate argument. If you can't invoke the "a Wizard did it" trope for Mages casting spells, then you really couldn't swallow almost the entire plotline anyways.



Maybe having a toggle would be a legitimately easy thing to patch in. Maybe the coding for difficulty levels is far, far more elaborate, which necessitates it being restricted to Nightmare. If they could add it as a toggle for other difficulties, fine, I wouldn't really care. On the other hand, maybe it is restricted because of AI mechanics, which is reasonable.



Personally, I don't really like the idea of friendly fire. I never really found it adds much of a challenge. Generally, it just gives more incentive to develop non-friendly fire spells and ignore the ones that are going to do significant amounts of harm, especially in a game where a large percentage of enemies are likely to rush into melee range. If other people find it makes the game better, that's cool. To each their own. I just never found adding it to RPG spell casting ever made any alteration to how I played, especially since the mass damage spells that normally are the most problematic for friendly fire tend to be on the weaker side. It is very common that single target spells do the most damage and multi-target spells that can't hit party members are usually better than the friendly fire ones (mainly because the enemies just aren't cooperative about clustering properly).

[1483749283]

Veen130 wrote...
there FF on Nightmare, so if u want it that bad, play it on that difficulty.

But many of us don't want to play nightmare. It's too hard. I find that in Nightmare mode in Bioware games, basically all the monsters' stats are jacked up to the point where you regularly die. When playing in nightmare mode, I basically get the feeling that everything has been level scaled slightly beyond me. It's just not fun. It becomes a reload fest at least for me.

What you're not getting is that I'm not after friendly fire for the challenge. For me, it's vital to how I see magic working in these worlds---that you can't channel fire out of thin air and then designate whom it's going to harm and whom it's not.

In DAO, friendly fire was very well done. If you noticed, the mind-based spells had no friendly fire. This makes logical sense---your mind can tell friend from foe. But a ball of fire shouldn't be able to tell friend from foe. It's just there.

Modifié par Pausanias, 27 février 2011 - 05:07 .

[borelocin]

There are modes below Nightmare ?  Sure I died a lot on my first playthough, a bit on my second, less on the third, and from there on I only died if I got sloppy.

I think the intent of turning friendly fire off is to make the game less punishing, and the assumption is that if you are playing below Nightmare you are not a masochist.  

Modifié par borelocin, 27 février 2011 - 06:28 .

[JJDrakken]

I like FF off, so stuff it hose cakes!

JJ

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Basically, what the OP is saying is that he doesn't want his play through to be too easy. That said, at the same time, he doesn't want it to be too hard. He's looking for a balance, which is a pretty reasonable request if you ask me. I'm sure someone could make such a mod within an hour at most.

[Selectric]

I find hilarious some of the commentors to the OP who basically say "No, you shouldn't be able to toggle FF." Who the **** are you to dictate to those of us that would like a FF toggle option whether we should have it or not? It does not affect you or your gameplay whatsoever.

I would personally like the ability to toggle FF on/off for difficulties other than Nightmare, too.  Namely for Hard, as that's what I think I'd like to start with.  If Bioware doesn't throw this in via a 0-day patch, then I imagine a playermade mod will come out quickly for it.

Modifié par Selectric, 27 février 2011 - 06:48 .

[Elanareon]

Also, can you add a free moving camera as well? Doesn't have to be as far as DA:O's camera, just freely movable camera, even if its close to the ground.

[Count Viceroy]

Unless a toolset is released, I very much doubt you'll see any significant mods such as this.

[borelocin]

distinguetraces wrote...

borelocin wrote...
I think the intent of turning friendly fire off is to make the game less punishing, and the assumption is that if you are playing below Nightmare you are not a masochist.  

That's fine. but I think this thread shows that there are many players who enjoy friendly fire but are not frustration-loving masochists.

Friendly fire adds complexity and interest to the game. Other aspects of nightmare -- simply jacking up enemy HP and damage -- don't. In fact, they can make success more a matter of chance, forcing you to replay a fight until you happen to get lucky on a string of virtual "rolls."

The way you say "frustration-loving masochist" makes it sound like a BAD thing

[borelocin]

distinguetraces wrote...

borelocin wrote...
The way you say "frustration-loving masochist" makes it sound like a BAD thing.

It's something I don't enjoy but am being cornered into putting up with anyway, so I don't feel particularly winky-smiley about it.

Fair enough mate, and it would be hypocritical of me to argue against someone else being able to mod the game how they like when I mod the crap out of mine.

I have mates who don't play DA games on Nightmare or ME games on Insanity. I wonder how they can enjoy the game with less challenge(they say they just don't enjoy being punished), they wonder why I am punishing myself (I'm not - I'm having a ball).

Bioware, please create a toggle for friendly fire so we can all play the game the way we like it.

[Felfenix]

Though I personally plan on playing on Nightmare, I see no reason not to add FF in other difficulties as a toggle for those who want it and don't want to edit the game files. I can't imagine it would require a lot of work or anything for Bioware to implement, so it's not like we'd lose anything for it.

I understand the lower difficulties are balanced around not having friendly fire, but they're the lower difficulties (so it's not like it would make the game impossible or anything), and it's a toggle so if someone has a problem with it making things harder they can always toggle it off.

I think the reason a lot of people want FF on non-nightmare, is because they want FF not for the challenge, but for the way it changes the way you play. Turning up difficulty just buffs mob stats/levels, whereas FF greatly changes the way you play strategically, which is independent of difficulty, though it does require you to think more.

Also, Bioware should add some kind of text toggle patch or something while they're at it. I have a lot of friends who won't be getting Dragon Age 2 just because they have so much trouble reading the text on their TVs/monitors.

Modifié par Felfenix, 27 février 2011 - 11:48 .

[Amioran]

Pausanias wrote...

It could easily be done as a patch. If not, a hack.<br />
It could easily be mandatory on Nightmare.<br />
It isn't that hard. In the first patch, have a check box for Friendly fire and force it to be checked for Nightmare mode, and have it off by default for the other modes. Not that hard people!!!

It's not easy.
It is already.
Yes, it is, very hard. Firslty it is very difficult because they balanced normal and hard gameplay to be without FF, so, if they now put it in, they willl have to rework all the gameplay so it is balanced with that different context. Secondly because if they will release a patch then ALL will have to play with FF for those difficulties because a toggle is not feasible just for the motives I've explained (in short it will break gameplay).

[Amioran]

tichard wrote...

I really don't understand why they didn't add the on/off friendly fire option on every difficulty level.<br />

Because it's not simple.

People please, at last if you don't have the knowledge of the thing at hand try to inform yourself a little better before insisting a thing it's easy when it's not and that devs are just lazy.

Just the fact that a toggle for FF indipendent from difficulty has never been done before for a party rpg alone should ring a bell for you, isn't it?

Modifié par Amioran, 27 février 2011 - 12:32 .

[Felfenix]

Amioran wrote...

Pausanias wrote...

It could easily be done as a patch. If not, a hack.<br />
It could easily be mandatory on Nightmare.<br />
It isn't that hard. In the first patch, have a check box for Friendly fire and force it to be checked for Nightmare mode, and have it off by default for the other modes. Not that hard people!!!

It's not easy.
It is already.
Yes, it is, very hard. Firslty it is very difficult because they balanced normal and hard gameplay to be without FF, so, if they now put it in, they willl have to rework all the gameplay so it is balanced with that different context. Secondly because if they will release a patch then ALL will have to play with FF for those difficulties because a toggle is not feasible just for the motives I've explained (in short it will break gameplay).

How will FF break gameplay on the lower difficulty levels? It will still be easier than Nightmare. Just because it's an option doesn't mean the game has to be balanced around it. I have the option of playing like an idiot in DAO, but that doesn't mean it's balanced around it. If someone finds FF makes casual too hard, they can turn off FF. Nightmare, the highest difficulty, is already balanced around FF, so it's not like having FF on lower difficulties would make the game impossible to beat.

Also, messing with the files isn't as complex as you think. It'll probably be not too different than making biotics work on protected enemies in ME2. Change a few flags here and there. I'm sure there will be FF mods for lower difficulties. I would HOPE Bioware programmers are smarter than the average modder.

However, I doubt Bioware actually will ever add an FF toggle though. They didn't let people change difficulty in the demo because they thought people might set it on Nightmare and not be able to figure out how to change it back... Underestimating the playerbase? Maybe. Then again, there are tons of self-proclaimed "intelligent" posters who still to this day are surprised and confused by the existance of the toggle in Origins' options menu to upload play data to Bioware for statistics. "I didn't know that was there!" "I turned it off and don't know how to turn it back on!"

Modifié par Felfenix, 27 février 2011 - 12:35 .

[dragon_83]

Amioran wrote...

Pausanias wrote...

It could easily be done as a patch. If not, a hack.<br />
It could easily be mandatory on Nightmare.<br />
It isn't that hard. In the first patch, have a check box for Friendly fire and force it to be checked for Nightmare mode, and have it off by default for the other modes. Not that hard people!!!

It's not easy.
It is already.
Yes, it is, very hard. Firslty it is very difficult because they balanced normal and hard gameplay to be without FF, so, if they now put it in, they willl have to rework all the gameplay so it is balanced with that different context. Secondly because if they will release a patch then ALL will have to play with FF for those difficulties because a toggle is not feasible just for the motives I've explained (in short it will break gameplay).

If this is true, that just proves that Bioware ****ed up the combat system, just to make it flashy. You can spam AoE spells as you like. Oh yes, I think this is the so called tactical combat system the devs were talking about.

[Palanthiss]

/support

[GreenSoda]

I think BW always had the stance that patches are for fixing bugs and not for the introduction of new content.

Modifié par GreenSoda, 27 février 2011 - 12:37 .

[Palanthiss]

(double post)

Modifié par Palanthiss, 27 février 2011 - 12:31 .

[Amioran]

Felfenix wrote...

How will FF break gameplay on the lower difficulty levels? It will still be easier than Nightmare.

It depends. It will become unpredictable. You will have moments when it will be easier and moments when it willl still be harder than nightmare, and either moments when it could even possibly become impossible.
 

Felfenix wrote...
Just because it's an option doesn't mean the game has to be balanced around it. I have the option of playing like an idiot in DAO, but that doesn't mean it's balanced around it.

A dev cannot make a toggle that can potentially break gameplay. What you say makes no sense. The fact that you can play as an idiot is a decision of you as an user, not an imposition by the devs. If a dev introduces a toggle then that toggle MUST work for the gameplay they made, or people will rightly complain, either if it was their decision (of the users) to enable it anyway.

A different thing is for something that an user change him/herself, as in the case of an .ini variation. In this case the change is not supported by the devs and if something get broken when changing something then it's not their fault.

Felfenix wrote...
If someone finds FF makes casual too hard, they can turn off FF. Nightmare, the highest difficulty, is already balanced around FF, so it's not like having FF on lower difficulties would make the game impossible to beat.

Nightmare is not casual with FF. It is all another difficulty level, tailored with FF in mind.

Felfenix wrote...
Also, messing with the files isn't as complex as you think. It'll probably be not too different than making biotics work on protected enemies in ME2.

Yes, it is. ME2 is more a shooter in gameplay complexity, for this a change as that can have less impact. Still, it's not a context change, it remains a specific one. Two completely different things.

Sorry, but you have no idea of what you are talking about.

Felfenix wrote...
Change a few flags here and there. I'm sure there will be FF mods for lower difficulties. I would HOPE Bioware programmers are smarter than the average modder.

The average modder never did a thing as that. If a modder will release FF on lower difficulties is just because that modder will not care at all if the balance of the gameplay get broken. A dev cannot do a thing as that. If the modder on the other hand will care he will find out that it will be much harder than he thought (if he didn't know already).

Felfenix wrote...
However, I doubt Bioware actually will ever add an FF toggle though. They didn't let people change difficulty in the demo because they thought people might set it on Nightmare and not be able to figure out how to change it back... Underestimating the playerbase?

Yes, Bioware hates you.

But I know, all it is easy for those who don't know things.

It's easy to add bowstrings.
It's easy to add sheats.
It's easy to add a toggle for FF.
It's easy to paint as Caravaggio.
It's easy to draw as David or Raffaello.

All it's easy when it's done by others and you never tried it yourself or you don't know what the things you mention implies.

Modifié par Amioran, 27 février 2011 - 12:47 .

[Amioran]

dragon_83 wrote...
If this is true, that just proves that Bioware ****ed up the combat system, just to make it flashy. You can spam AoE spells as you like. Oh yes, I think this is the so called tactical combat system the devs were talking about.

Removing FF is different from removing complexity. OMG people, really, you have no idea of what you are babbling about, seriously.

You can have a technical complex and challenging gameplay even without FF just because FF is a context change. If the gameplay is tailored to that context there are no problems. A gameplay can be totally unchallenging and lack complextity with FF activated as a gameplay without FF can be totally the contrary. It all depends on how the parameters are tied to that context.

Modifié par Amioran, 27 février 2011 - 12:49 .