369 réponses à ce sujet

[_LordKain_]

RPGCodex......the butthurt there is strong....very strong. Some of the stuff they posted is amusing though.

[Mantaal]

RohanD wrote...

I think there has been a resoundingly negative reaction to the demo from PC gamers, that much is sure.

Whether this will hold true for the full game or not is yet to be seen, but I have to admit, after the demo, I wasn't happy.

I am by no means an exclusive "elitist" PC gamer. I've drifted in and out of consoles and computers all my life, started off with the C64 and Amiga 500 then moved almost exclusively into consoles until around 2000. 

I played old cRPGs like Dungeon Master, Might & Magic, Pools of Radiance, Champions/Deathknights of Krynn...but I also played lots of games all the way through in Japanese even when I couldn't read any of the text (Breath of Fire comes to mind) 

The Baldur's Gate Saga would definitely be in my top 5 games of all time, but so would Final Fantasy Tactics. I love Capcom, used to competitively play Street Fighter, and did some of the hardest challenges in the DMC and Onimusha games. 

So basically I am pretty across the board gamer, but I will never spend time with a game which I do not think is 100% quality.

Now I hear a lot of the arguments against the so-called PC "elite" saying they fear change. I disagree with this strongly. I do not think they fear change. Did they hate the changes from BGI to BGII? Did they hate Planescape Torment? Was DA:O not given a very warm welcome by them? These are all different games that were, by and large, loved by PC gamers. They live on as classic pieces of gaming history to many of them (myself included). So please, don't brush their concerns aside with a simple "oh you're just an old fart who fears change". It's just plain wrong.

Now, onto what I feel is really the biggest issue with DA2's direction, the combat. Sure, there are many other points people are voicing displeasure about, but this to me stands out as the most consistently talked about one. 

I see so many people say "The combat is just like DA:O! It''s just faster and there's more flashly animations". Don't you see, that you are contradicting yourself in this statement? How can the combat be exactly the same, but then different? I'll give you an example from an enormously popular and excellent gaming franchise: when Street Fighter II moved from Champion Edition to Hyperfighting and the game was sped up considerably, it changed forever (in that case for the better). 

So my point is, that the speed of the combat, in my belief, has fundamentally changed the way a large part of the game works. It intrinsically has moved DA away from a tactical approach to playing. Look at all the Final Fantasy Tactics games, or their related titles (the fantastic Tactics Ogre just got re-released for PSP). These are pure, turn based games. Strategy requires thought, timing, planning. How can you do this when everything happens at light speed? Sure you can pause, but really, I have to be brutally honest, the pausing in DA2 so far seemed totally pointless. Why? Because when I paused and issued a command then unpaused, the action was over so quickly that I had to pause again instantly to issue the next command. It just seemed totally redundant and not the way the game was meant to be played. 

Now someone will bring up that the game was on normal difficulty. Okay, sure. I played DA:O on nightmare, it was the only difficulty that made the combat in the game interesting and challenging for me. The problem with DA2 that I am already seeing is that...the combat seems so twitchy that I don't think making it harder will actually make it more fun. I think it will actually just turn into a frustrating mess. Look at that firestorm spell, with FF turned on, would you every actually use this? It will be totally useless with FF. Now you will say "ooh well Mr Hardcore, that's just another challenge" well honestly, I think that is just lazy or thoughtless programming right there. 

This is part of what all of the "haters" as many call them are feeling. Couple this with the complete loss of a tactical camera and the loss of full dialogue to choose from, and PC gamers find themselves thinking "wait, why did I like this game before?"

I don't know if this will impact on sales. I think definitely the PC might take a slight hit, but so far, I feel that the consoles will more than make up for it. It does make me kind of sad, because it was nice, to feel that just maybe, there was going to be one SINGLE franchise, that catered to people who love true cRPGs. 

Very good post. I agree 100%
I have to add
-No Inventory for Group members
-No classes anymore just "skills"
-no Playable Races

I dont care Consoles and Bg2. It was a great game but i dont want DA to be BG3.

Its just for myselve, its a BIG Minus for a RPG to remove such things.

Modifié par Mantaal, 27 février 2011 - 02:30 .

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

Zigzaggy wrote...

Bioware ARE a division of EA..<br />
<br />
EA heirachy are not game designers they are publishers.Apportioning blame to EA is a diversion.<br />
<br />
Question remains....As Origins was about Bioware 'getting back to the roots' of the traditional RPG...which done really well .One has to ask why change direction with the franchise. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />

As long as they have 4 man/woman parties, and less gameplay functionality than Infinity Engine games they arent close to their roots. BG was a far better game than DA:O for many many reasons. 

[TwistedComplex]

I like how OP found the most negative comments possible of DA2 and ignored all the positive ones

RPG codex? Really?

[Night Prowler76]

I told you guys that most other sites think the game looks terrible quite a while ago, I honestly think your going to see a flop with DA2, Im glad they released the demo, atleast no one can complain about getting ripped off now.

[merik3000]

I just read some articles on RPGCodex.... they really seem to hate bioware... Devs did you like kill someone over there as just wow! And here I though some people on this forum have been harsh and bullheaded to you! Anyways loved the demo and looking forward to my pre-ordered copy to come through!

Btw does anyone know if that activation drm is on the final product as the retailer I pre-order from always sends me games a day before release so I'm wondering if I'll be able to play it a day before official release?

[TwistedComplex]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

I told you guys that most other sites think the game looks terrible quite a while ago, I honestly think your going to see a flop with DA2, Im glad they released the demo, atleast no one can complain about getting ripped off now.

It's top on almost every pre-order chart

After they released the demo, the pre-orders spiked even further

[PrinceOfFallout13]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

I told you guys that most other sites think the game looks terrible quite a while ago, I honestly think your going to see a flop with DA2, Im glad they released the demo, atleast no one can complain about getting ripped off now.

It's top on almost every pre-order chart

After they released the demo, the pre-orders spiked even further

this ^ and also since when 3 sites equals almost everyone?

Modifié par PrinceOfFallout13, 27 février 2011 - 03:02 .

[Darkeus]

This thread is so funny.....

[RavenStorm]

Smilehigh wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

The BUMFACE wrote...

A group of people passionate about their hobby who have been specifically told by the industry that their tastes don't matter, they're stupid for having them, and that they will never be catered for again are angry? Can't imagine why.

 That's a good question. I can't imagine why either. It's not like there aren't accessible tools. That a lot of you could make use of. To keep creating these experiences yourself. Furthering both the industry and the RPG market.
 

Is this some kind of spinoff off the "you can't criticize it until you've done better" argument? They are gamers, not developers.
Or are you talking about the "accessible tools" to mod DA2 perhaps? Because they will be available with the game, right? (Not that it would make any sense to mod it at all)

And FYI there's at least one indie game in development made by the codexers and strongly supported by the Codex - The Age Of Decadence @ www.irontowerstudio.com/

 Not quite. I Imagine if you look around hard enough you could find people with the skill set's neccessary to help. Aside from Mod tools You could use tools like this:  unity3d.com/ They even offer a Free Version.

[Night Prowler76]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

I told you guys that most other sites think the game looks terrible quite a while ago, I honestly think your going to see a flop with DA2, Im glad they released the demo, atleast no one can complain about getting ripped off now.

It's top on almost every pre-order chart

After they released the demo, the pre-orders spiked even further

this ^ and also since when 3 sites equals almost everyone?

Of course there is going to be people who buy this and pre-order it even more before it launches, especially this time of year when there is no real competition, that doesnt mean it will be a huge success does it? And most of the sites that I have been on have a negative tone towards the game, sorry, as much as you guys dont want to believe it, its true.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

RavenStorm wrote...

Smilehigh wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

The BUMFACE wrote...

A group of people passionate about their hobby who have been specifically told by the industry that their tastes don't matter, they're stupid for having them, and that they will never be catered for again are angry? Can't imagine why.

 That's a good question. I can't imagine why either. It's not like there aren't accessible tools. That a lot of you could make use of. To keep creating these experiences yourself. Furthering both the industry and the RPG market.
 

Is this some kind of spinoff off the "you can't criticize it until you've done better" argument? They are gamers, not developers.
Or are you talking about the "accessible tools" to mod DA2 perhaps? Because they will be available with the game, right? (Not that it would make any sense to mod it at all)

And FYI there's at least one indie game in development made by the codexers and strongly supported by the Codex - The Age Of Decadence @ www.irontowerstudio.com/

 Not quite. I Imagine if you look around hard enough you could find people with the skill set's neccessary to help. Aside from Mod tools You could use tools like this:  unity3d.com/ They even offer a Free Version.

or he could get diablo 3 and two worlds 2

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

I told you guys that most other sites think the game looks terrible quite a while ago, I honestly think your going to see a flop with DA2, Im glad they released the demo, atleast no one can complain about getting ripped off now.

It's top on almost every pre-order chart

After they released the demo, the pre-orders spiked even further

this ^ and also since when 3 sites equals almost everyone?

Of course there is going to be people who buy this and pre-order it even more before it launches, especially this time of year when there is no real competition, that doesnt mean it will be a huge success does it? And most of the sites that I have been on have a negative tone towards the game, sorry, as much as you guys dont want to believe it, its true.

and i care why? as long as i like it that will mean it was a success, if we were judging by forums cod would have sold 5 copies and besides forums atract the negative people or people dissapointed yet they are a blip in the radar compared to the actual number of people who will buy it, not only with this game but with every game released since like always nothing is new

Modifié par PrinceOfFallout13, 27 février 2011 - 03:21 .

[Piecake]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Of course there is going to be people who buy this and pre-order it even more before it launches, especially this time of year when there is no real competition, that doesnt mean it will be a huge success does it? And most of the sites that I have been on have a negative tone towards the game, sorry, as much as you guys dont want to believe it, its true.

I really don't understand why anyone who is anticipating DA2 and liked the demo should care whether or not other people on different forums like it.  What matters is if they like it and the game sells well enough to get another sequel (if that person wants to play another DA game of course).  Personally, I don't need my opinion validated by the internet

[Night Prowler76]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

I told you guys that most other sites think the game looks terrible quite a while ago, I honestly think your going to see a flop with DA2, Im glad they released the demo, atleast no one can complain about getting ripped off now.

It's top on almost every pre-order chart

After they released the demo, the pre-orders spiked even further

this ^ and also since when 3 sites equals almost everyone?

Of course there is going to be people who buy this and pre-order it even more before it launches, especially this time of year when there is no real competition, that doesnt mean it will be a huge success does it? And most of the sites that I have been on have a negative tone towards the game, sorry, as much as you guys dont want to believe it, its true.

and i care why? as long as i like it that will mean it was a success, if we were judging by forums cod would have sold 5 copies

It just seems like you guys cant handle people criticizing the game, those sites arent really in a minority, its hard to find a website that thinkgs DA2 will be great, other than this one of course.

[Night Prowler76]

Piecake wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Of course there is going to be people who buy this and pre-order it even more before it launches, especially this time of year when there is no real competition, that doesnt mean it will be a huge success does it? And most of the sites that I have been on have a negative tone towards the game, sorry, as much as you guys dont want to believe it, its true.

I really don't understand why anyone who is anticipating DA2 and liked the demo should care whether or not other people on different forums like it.  What matters is if they like it and the game sells well enough to get another sequel (if that person wants to play another DA game of course).  Personally, I don't need my opinion validated by the internet

Obivously you dont care about someone elses opinion, but just because you dont, doesnt make it any less valid than your own, and thats what alot of you guys are forgetting.

[lx_theo]

I noticed the PC version has auto-attack (at least it did when I played it, would be weird if it didn't), so its more like Origins than the console version. PC gamers constantly complaining, sheesh.

[Night Prowler76]

lx_theo wrote...

I noticed the PC version has auto-attack (at least it did when I played it, would be weird if it didn't), so its more like Origins than the console version. PC gamers constantly complaining, sheesh.

The console version has auto attack as well I think?

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

I noticed the PC version has auto-attack (at least it did when I played it, would be weird if it didn't), so its more like Origins than the console version. PC gamers constantly complaining, sheesh.

The console version has auto attack as well I think?

you are correct

[BeardedNinja]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

I noticed the PC version has auto-attack (at least it did when I played it, would be weird if it didn't), so its more like Origins than the console version. PC gamers constantly complaining, sheesh.

The console version has auto attack as well I think?

The full game console version has a toggle if you wish it, but most people choose to overlook this and declare it a hack N slash wannabee based soley on the demo, but to each their own.

[Lennonkun]

Night Prowler76 wrote...
It just seems like you guys cant handle people criticizing the game, those sites arent really in a minority, its hard to find a website that thinkgs DA2 will be great, other than this one of course.

I see you have met the BDF. Just ignore them.

Also for anyone saying DA2 has no competition in terms of "games coming out to buy" there is The Witcher 2, and of course my personal choice at the moment, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Skyrim is a bit further down the line sadly.

[Piecake]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Obivously you dont care about someone elses opinion, but just because you dont, doesnt make it any less valid than your own, and thats what alot of you guys are forgetting.

And when did I say that their opinions were less valid?  If you are going to quote me, don't lump me together with other people and say things that don't apply to me.

[rob_k]

Saibh wrote...

rob_k wrote...

You know, Amioran has a point...

I'm currently reading the impressions thread on RPG Codex for Origins... and people weren't pre-judging the game or anything there at all...

(I'm also looking at complaints regarding 4 dialog choices when you get asked to become a grey warden, and they then say there's no choice because it leads to the same outcome... And then are also the linear complaints... does this remind anyone of anything at all as it relates to DA 2?)

But it's the perspective you need:  the things they complain about in DAII--the dialogue wheel, the combat, the voiced protagonist--well, that would make you think they appreciated DAO, right? No. They slam on DAO, too. They're not looking to be fair and magnanimous in their decisions. They're looking to have fun trolling it. That's fine, since they're not over here, but don't give them the credit of thinking they're a legitimate message board with legitimate opinions.

Was never my intent to give them credit, Saibh. To be honest, I think they're vile  Browsing those forums is like... ten times worse than here. And I ain't too keen on all the trolling here either, but at least there's not a tonne of swearing etc. here.

I guess I could have picked a better example than there however. It would be interesting to go through the threads that were created at the time of Origin's release here on the social network. I did try that a few days ago, but I couldn't find them nor could I be bothered searching through tonnes of threads.

In any case, probably a bad comparison like I said, but I just wanted to say that I'm sure the same complaints being aired regarding DA 2 have also been aired regarding DA: O. And then when DA 3 releases, it'll be like travelling back in time, where people are making the same complaints and saying it's not as good as DA 2.

It would help if I actually browsed these forums at DA: O's release though, as I can only compare all the complaining here to Mass Effect 2's complaining.

Edit: I think the better route to settle this is to check the sales on several websites closer to release (the whole 'the vocal minority is complaining' thing). While one website doesn't prove much and I can only access the UK's version of the website, DA 2 is currently sitting 3rd in terms of top sellers on Steam.

Modifié par rob_k, 27 février 2011 - 03:44 .

[RohanD]

TwistedComplex wrote...

I like how OP found the most negative comments possible of DA2 and ignored all the positive ones

RPG codex? Really?

Yes, RPG Codex, really. 

These are the thoughts of PC gamers. The opinions are overwhelmingly negative since the demo. 

Did I say that this would impact sales? No. I have actually said that I think it will still sell well. I haven't cancelled my pre-order either, I'm really hoping that I haven't wasted my money, but this hope is an afterglow from the first game, which honestly, is what they were banking on with this rushed product. 

That being said, as I have mentioned in my other posts, I think that this is a very slippery slope Bioware is embarking on. 

[RedVisionaire]

Night Prowler76 wrote...
It just seems like you guys cant handle people criticizing the game, those sites arent really in a minority, its hard to find a website that thinkgs DA2 will be great, other than this one of course.

To be clear, if you actually go to the Steam forum for DA2, it is no more negative than this forum. It's not overwhelming positive, but neither is this (nor was DA:O's forums pre-release, nor ME2's, etc). Saying that the majority of people posting are negative is a pretty large simplification.