369 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

RohanD wrote...
No, you're wrong. See what I did there? Stating that someone is simply wrong is not a discussion, and that is what forums are about.

It's not the same thing. You said something could not be done. I pointed out that it could; my playstyle is precisely the one you describe, yet I find DA2 better suited.

For the record, I played DA:O in the same fashion, all tactics turned off, on nightmare, pausing and playing, and I don't think this will work as well in DA2 with the combat speed being left the way it is now. There is possibly hope for a patch that could add an option to control the combat speed, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Combat speed is 100% irrelevant. Abilities are frontloaded. If you pause, order, pause, switch character, order, pause, switch, etc. actions execute while you're fliping around and characters move as you direct them. I don't know what proof you want other than me trying to take a video.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Teehee i had to sooorry

That's actually really good.

and this is when the thread ends...ugh

[Lennonkun]

Well the guys from Rock,Paper, Shotgun refused to post their impressions of DA2 since they would likely cause a ****storm. They seem to be on the negative side.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Lennonkun wrote...

Well the guys from Rock,Paper, Shotgun refused to post their impressions of DA2 since they would likely cause a ****storm. They seem to be on the negative side.

who? never heard of them

[Beerfish]

RohanD wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

rpgcodex <3

It is seriously one of the funniest websites online, but your geek level has to be very high to understand it, which is why I think the "doesn't scale to your level" tagline is really awesome hahaha

No, not really.  It's very easy to understand it.

[Mad-Max90]

Dude if you guys make an rpg like game about fighting ghosts in abandoned shopping mall I will buy it

[RohanD]

In Exile wrote...

RohanD wrote...
No, you're wrong. See what I did there? Stating that someone is simply wrong is not a discussion, and that is what forums are about.

It's not the same thing. You said something could not be done. I pointed out that it could; my playstyle is precisely the one you describe, yet I find DA2 better suited.

For the record, I played DA:O in the same fashion, all tactics turned off, on nightmare, pausing and playing, and I don't think this will work as well in DA2 with the combat speed being left the way it is now. There is possibly hope for a patch that could add an option to control the combat speed, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Combat speed is 100% irrelevant. Abilities are frontloaded. If you pause, order, pause, switch character, order, pause, switch, etc. actions execute while you're fliping around and characters move as you direct them. I don't know what proof you want other than me trying to take a video.

I never said anything couldn't be done. I said it was pointless to do so as due to the speed, the pause and play tactic is redundant and the game is much more like a real time action game now.

They've actually done this on purpose, they've admitted that this is what they wanted. They wanted to open the game up to a wider audience and the only way to do that was make the combat fast paced, frantic, and flashy like an action game, so more people felt comfortable with it. Just letting you keep the ability to pause and do things doesn't mean that the game was designed with this mechanic in mind completely. So why put it in at all?

Friendly fire is another thing to think about. My guess is that they really wanted to take it out completely at the beginning. Spells like Firestorm indicate that they were not designed with FF in mind. In fact in the early demos, people kept asking about FF. There was some posturing by Gaider and eventually they said it would be available only in Nightmare. They knew, if they abandoned it totally, they'd face a total uproar. 

The whole thing smacks of throwing bones to the old core fanbase, cutting out features they like, and trying to appeal to the mainstream. 

I am personally of the opinion that they've blurred the lines too much and now the game is neither here, nor there. It's not a tactical game and it's not a complete action game.

It's neither and I think it basically turns into a poor version of both kinds of games. 

[Beerfish]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Lol i dunno if its a button masher or not, i mean i played the first and while the combat was not perfect it suited the game pretty well and i felt comfortable with it.

Now no VS thread here intended, i just saw this pic and thought it was funny.

I still have to play DA2, i´ll get the demo tomorrow as i´m working.

If not perfect you mean horrible you have it about right.  Which was really too bad.  The game had nice graphics a promising story and looked interesting.  The fact of the matter was the combat was not the least bit fun and even in games that are combat and rpg, combat at the very least has to not give you a headache to play through.

[Beerfish]

RohanD wrote...


I never said anything couldn't be done. I said it was pointless to do so as due to the speed, the pause and play tactic is redundant and the game is much more like a real time action game now.

They've actually done this on purpose, they've admitted that this is what they wanted. They wanted to open the game up to a wider audience and the only way to do that was make the combat fast paced, frantic, and flashy like an action game, so more people felt comfortable with it. Just letting you keep the ability to pause and do things doesn't mean that the game was designed with this mechanic in mind completely. So why put it in at all?

Friendly fire is another thing to think about. My guess is that they really wanted to take it out completely at the beginning. Spells like Firestorm indicate that they were not designed with FF in mind. In fact in the early demos, people kept asking about FF. There was some posturing by Gaider and eventually they said it would be available only in Nightmare. They knew, if they abandoned it totally, they'd face a total uproar. 

The whole thing smacks of throwing bones to the old core fanbase, cutting out features they like, and trying to appeal to the mainstream. 

I am personally of the opinion that they've blurred the lines too much and now the game is neither here, nor there. It's not a tactical game and it's not a complete action game.

It's neither and I think it basically turns into a poor version of both kinds of games. 

Eh?  I paused as much in the demo as I have in any other game that has that feature.  Also the demo is on normal.  I'd guess that at higher levels pause will become more important, especially if you are playing a mage.

You are tossing in a whole ton of conjecture after that in your post.  Zero evidence to suggest they wanted to totally remove FF.  Total nonsense about them making some big change in FF due to a bit of board feedback and anything to do with the head writer who has not a lot of pull in game mechanics.

FF should be a on a toggle if that is techincally possible no question about it.  The fact is that FF while removing things like targetting opponents with AOE spells and the increased speed of things makes play balance very difficult even from encounter to encounter. 

[Morroian]

Lennonkun wrote...

Well the guys from Rock,Paper, Shotgun refused to post their impressions of DA2 since they would likely cause a ****storm. They seem to be on the negative side.

Where have they intimated that?

Modifié par Morroian, 27 février 2011 - 06:40 .

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...

RohanD wrote...

For the record, I played DA:O in the same fashion, all tactics turned off, on nightmare, pausing and playing, and I don't think this will work as well in DA2 with the combat speed being left the way it is now. There is possibly hope for a patch that could add an option to control the combat speed, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Combat speed is 100% irrelevant. Abilities are frontloaded. If you pause, order, pause, switch character, order, pause, switch, etc. actions execute while you're fliping around and characters move as you direct them. I don't know what proof you want other than me trying to take a video.

I don't think it's 100% irrelevant. RohanD is even more wrong than that. Fast combat makes pausing more useful than it otherwise would be. DAO is slow-paced enough that I don't find pausing necessary or even particularly useful. In faster-paced games I need to pause to keep up.

[Morroian]

RohanD wrote...

I never said anything couldn't be done. I said it was pointless to do so as due to the speed, the pause and play tactic is redundant and the game is much more like a real time action game now.

I had to use pause and play to get past the real ogre battle. As others have said pausing will be mandatory on higher levels. In fact IMHO the speed is somewhat illusory because default attacks seem to do less damage than in DAO.

Modifié par Morroian, 27 février 2011 - 06:40 .

[RohanD]

Beerfish wrote...

RohanD wrote...


I never said anything couldn't be done. I said it was pointless to do so as due to the speed, the pause and play tactic is redundant and the game is much more like a real time action game now.

They've actually done this on purpose, they've admitted that this is what they wanted. They wanted to open the game up to a wider audience and the only way to do that was make the combat fast paced, frantic, and flashy like an action game, so more people felt comfortable with it. Just letting you keep the ability to pause and do things doesn't mean that the game was designed with this mechanic in mind completely. So why put it in at all?

Friendly fire is another thing to think about. My guess is that they really wanted to take it out completely at the beginning. Spells like Firestorm indicate that they were not designed with FF in mind. In fact in the early demos, people kept asking about FF. There was some posturing by Gaider and eventually they said it would be available only in Nightmare. They knew, if they abandoned it totally, they'd face a total uproar. 

The whole thing smacks of throwing bones to the old core fanbase, cutting out features they like, and trying to appeal to the mainstream. 

I am personally of the opinion that they've blurred the lines too much and now the game is neither here, nor there. It's not a tactical game and it's not a complete action game.

It's neither and I think it basically turns into a poor version of both kinds of games. 

Eh?  I paused as much in the demo as I have in any other game that has that feature.  Also the demo is on normal.  I'd guess that at higher levels pause will become more important, especially if you are playing a mage.

You are tossing in a whole ton of conjecture after that in your post.  Zero evidence to suggest they wanted to totally remove FF.  Total nonsense about them making some big change in FF due to a bit of board feedback and anything to do with the head writer who has not a lot of pull in game mechanics.

FF should be a on a toggle if that is techincally possible no question about it.  The fact is that FF while removing things like targetting opponents with AOE spells and the increased speed of things makes play balance very difficult even from encounter to encounter. 

Why would you create a spell like Firestorm with FF in mind? It's totally useless with FF turned on. Don't tell me that's an "extra challenge" it's just poor programming sorry. 

[Maria Caliban]

RohanD wrote...

Why would you create a spell like Firestorm with FF in mind?

You think they should have a game with FF but remove AOE spells?

[RohanD]

Morroian wrote...

RohanD wrote...

I never said anything couldn't be done. I said it was pointless to do so as due to the speed, the pause and play tactic is redundant and the game is much more like a real time action game now.

I had to use pause and play to get past the real ogre battle. As others have said pausing will be mandatory on higher levels. In fact IMHO the speed is somewhat illusory because default attacks seem to do less damage than in DAO.

Why did you "have" to use it? How did pausing help you? I thought it would help, then I just thought, this is a waste of time and just randomly activated spells and abilities till it died. 

[RohanD]

Maria Caliban wrote...

RohanD wrote...

Why would you create a spell like Firestorm with FF in mind?

You think they should have a game with FF but remove AOE spells?

That firestorm is a random AoE. It falls...randomnly over a period of time. So there is no way to avoid your guys getting hit if you use it at close range. 

Now without the isometric camera, I can't place it anywhere meaningful. Spells like fireball or Cone of cold had meaningful ranges and happened once. You would know, if I do it at this point and at this range, there's no way my party will get damaged.

This is not the case with Firestorm. 

Seriously, do you buy their reason for making FF only available on Nightmare? Is there ANY real LOGICAL reason for them not making it a toggle? Or for taking it out of hard? I believe some devs response was "It's too confusing for casuals, they'll be like "ooh wah why am I getting hit?" It's just crap and anyone who defends it is just making excuses for their lazy programming and/or casualization of the game. 

[Morroian]

RohanD wrote...

Morroian wrote...

I had to use pause and play to get past the real ogre battle. As others have said pausing will be mandatory on higher levels. In fact IMHO the speed is somewhat illusory because default attacks seem to do less damage than in DAO.

Why did you "have" to use it? How did pausing help you? I thought it would help, then I just thought, this is a waste of time and just randomly activated spells and abilities till it died. 

Cause I died otherwise, until I took a more active part in the battle.

[Morroian]

RohanD wrote...

Now without the isometric camera, I can't place it anywhere meaningful. Spells like fireball or Cone of cold had meaningful ranges and happened once. You would know, if I do it at this point and at this range, there's no way my party will get damaged.

Funny how I managed to place it exactly where I wanted in Varric's exaggerated story and in the Hayder battle. You don't need iso to place an AOE spell. It makes ot easier but thats all.

[Stanley Woo]

No longer on topic. If you wish to debate the finer points of the combat in the demo, please use the demo feedback Sticky thread at the top of the first page of this forum. If you actually want to discuss other communities'/websites' impressions of the demo, please start a new thread. Thank you.

End of line.

[In Exile]

[quote]RohanD wrote...

I never said anything couldn't be done. I said it was pointless to do so as due to the speed, the pause and play tactic is redundant and the game is much more like a real time action game now.
[/quote]

The game is not like an action game at all. Your reflexes don't matter at all. Real-time is terrible, because all the hits are computer controlled, there's no good way to dodge, and it takes time to aim & prepare your abilities whereas the enemy can pound you.

The PC is absolutely not geared for action combat.

Maybe the console version plays somewhat like an action RPG; I don't know. But on the PC, it doesn't. You're seriously just not right about the PC gameplay.

[quote]They've actually done this on purpose, they've admitted that this is what they wanted. They wanted to open the game up to a wider audience and the only way to do that was make the combat fast paced, frantic, and flashy like an action game, so more people felt comfortable with it. Just letting you keep the ability to pause and do things doesn't mean that the game was designed with this mechanic in mind completely. So why put it in at all? [quote]

Because it plays well with it. IMO, the game would be unplayable on PC without pause and the same UI for me. Maybe it would work as real-time on console + moron AI controlled companions. I don't know.

[quote]Friendly fire is another thing to think about. My guess is that they really wanted to take it out completely at the beginning. Spells like Firestorm indicate that they were not designed with FF in mind. In fact in the early demos, people kept asking about FF. There was some posturing by Gaider and eventually they said it would be available only in Nightmare. They knew, if they abandoned it totally, they'd face a total uproar.  [/quote]

What? Firestorm is just a wide AOE cone. Hell, you can play the demo like it has FF (I do, preparing for nightmare) where you just avoid your own NPCs in the AOE cones. It's not even hard to do!

[quote]
I am personally of the opinion that they've blurred the lines too much and now the game is neither here, nor there. It's not a tactical game and it's not a complete action game.

It's neither and I think it basically turns into a poor version of both kinds of games. [/quote]

Maybe if you play it in real time. With tactics disabled and pause on the PC, it plays like DA:O. Except with better and more reactive combat.

[/quote]