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PC DA2 Demo impressions from other websites


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#76
KBomb

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Merced652 wrote...


They have some of the most vile posters ever.


Subjective, i find the WoW forums are quite a bit worse and these can definitely be rather bad as well. This SQUEE phenomenon is.. well.. terrible, unless the guys at rpgcodex are making fun of it; then its awesome.B)
Its also hilarious how other forums identify these as the scary place where people go and "squee" over romancing an elf.




I would much rather have someone squeeing over an elf than to read page after page of verbal vomit.

Modifié par KBomb, 26 février 2011 - 09:11 .


#77
Merced652

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Saibh wrote...
The 4Chan imageboard for videogames.

And it could have cured cancer and RPGCodex would still make fun of it and hate it to pieces.


Naw, they might say such a cure needs to be withheld from some people, but the act itself would likely never come under scrutiny. :P

#78
Merced652

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KBomb wrote...

Merced652 wrote...


They have some of the most vile posters ever.


Subjective, i find the WoW forums are quite a bit worse and these can definitely be rather bad as well. This SQUEE phenomenon is.. well.. terrible, unless the guys at rpgcodex are making fun of it; then its awesome.B)
Its also hilarious how other forums identify these as the scary place where people go and "squee" over romancing an elf.




I would much rather have someone squeeing over an elf than to read page after page of verbal vomit.


Yea but theres nothing funny about someone squeeing, just epic sadness.

#79
Aldandil

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Merced652 wrote...

KBomb wrote...


I would much rather have someone squeeing over an elf than to read page after page of verbal vomit.


Yea but theres nothing funny about someone squeeing, just epic sadness.

Enthousiasm and anticipation is epicly sad while verbal vomit is funny? To each his own...

That said, I've never bothered reading the fan threads. They're boring, but not epicly sad.

#80
SG60

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Aldandil wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

KBomb wrote...


I would much rather have someone squeeing over an elf than to read page after page of verbal vomit.


Yea but theres nothing funny about someone squeeing, just epic sadness.

Enthousiasm and anticipation is epicly sad while verbal vomit is funny? To each his own...

That said, I've never bothered reading the fan threads. They're boring, but not epicly sad.


I dunno. I think creepy  is a better word for some of those threads.

#81
Kharn-ivor

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I dont understand, why isnt Da2 an RPG in these ppls views. It has everything RPGs are supposed to, calling it a hack and slash doesnt mean it cant be an RPG too.

It has a party, leveling up, quests, sidequests, multiple choices, attributes and abilities, dialogue and tons of orc like things to gut.

Or is the problem more about PC gamers feeling that console gamers are "ruining everything"?

I just dont get what gets into ppl, what happend to being open minded...the internet I guess.

#82
BloodRaith

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SG60 wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

KBomb wrote...


I would much rather have someone squeeing over an elf than to read page after page of verbal vomit.


Yea but theres nothing funny about someone squeeing, just epic sadness.

Enthousiasm and anticipation is epicly sad while verbal vomit is funny? To each his own...

That said, I've never bothered reading the fan threads. They're boring, but not epicly sad.


I dunno. I think creepy  is a better word for some of those threads.

I stumbled into a Tali love thread (being a fan of her myself) and immediatly regretted that decision... Never again.

#83
SG60

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BloodRaith wrote...

SG60 wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

KBomb wrote...


I would much rather have someone squeeing over an elf than to read page after page of verbal vomit.


Yea but theres nothing funny about someone squeeing, just epic sadness.

Enthousiasm and anticipation is epicly sad while verbal vomit is funny? To each his own...

That said, I've never bothered reading the fan threads. They're boring, but not epicly sad.


I dunno. I think creepy  is a better word for some of those threads.

I stumbled into a Tali love thread (being a fan of her myself) and immediatly regretted that decision... Never again.


That's exactly what I'm talking about....it's scary, quite frankly.

#84
KBomb

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BloodRaith wrote...


I stumbled into a Tali love thread (being a fan of her myself) and immediatly regretted that decision... Never again.


Yeah, some of it was...beyond words.

Modifié par KBomb, 26 février 2011 - 09:43 .


#85
RohanD

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I think there has been a resoundingly negative reaction to the demo from PC gamers, that much is sure.

Whether this will hold true for the full game or not is yet to be seen, but I have to admit, after the demo, I wasn't happy.

I am by no means an exclusive "elitist" PC gamer. I've drifted in and out of consoles and computers all my life, started off with the C64 and Amiga 500 then moved almost exclusively into consoles until around 2000. 

I played old cRPGs like Dungeon Master, Might & Magic, Pools of Radiance, Champions/Deathknights of Krynn...but I also played lots of games all the way through in Japanese even when I couldn't read any of the text (Breath of Fire comes to mind) 

The Baldur's Gate Saga would definitely be in my top 5 games of all time, but so would Final Fantasy Tactics. I love Capcom, used to competitively play Street Fighter, and did some of the hardest challenges in the DMC and Onimusha games. 

So basically I am pretty across the board gamer, but I will never spend time with a game which I do not think is 100% quality.

Now I hear a lot of the arguments against the so-called PC "elite" saying they fear change. I disagree with this strongly. I do not think they fear change. Did they hate the changes from BGI to BGII? Did they hate Planescape Torment? Was DA:O not given a very warm welcome by them? These are all different games that were, by and large, loved by PC gamers. They live on as classic pieces of gaming history to many of them (myself included). So please, don't brush their concerns aside with a simple "oh you're just an old fart who fears change". It's just plain wrong.

Now, onto what I feel is really the biggest issue with DA2's direction, the combat. Sure, there are many other points people are voicing displeasure about, but this to me stands out as the most consistently talked about one. 

I see so many people say "The combat is just like DA:O! It''s just faster and there's more flashly animations". Don't you see, that you are contradicting yourself in this statement? How can the combat be exactly the same, but then different? I'll give you an example from an enormously popular and excellent gaming franchise: when Street Fighter II moved from Champion Edition to Hyperfighting and the game was sped up considerably, it changed forever (in that case for the better). 

So my point is, that the speed of the combat, in my belief, has fundamentally changed the way a large part of the game works. It intrinsically has moved DA away from a tactical approach to playing. Look at all the Final Fantasy Tactics games, or their related titles (the fantastic Tactics Ogre just got re-released for PSP). These are pure, turn based games. Strategy requires thought, timing, planning. How can you do this when everything happens at light speed? Sure you can pause, but really, I have to be brutally honest, the pausing in DA2 so far seemed totally pointless. Why? Because when I paused and issued a command then unpaused, the action was over so quickly that I had to pause again instantly to issue the next command. It just seemed totally redundant and not the way the game was meant to be played. 

Now someone will bring up that the game was on normal difficulty. Okay, sure. I played DA:O on nightmare, it was the only difficulty that made the combat in the game interesting and challenging for me. The problem with DA2 that I am already seeing is that...the combat seems so twitchy that I don't think making it harder will actually make it more fun. I think it will actually just turn into a frustrating mess. Look at that firestorm spell, with FF turned on, would you every actually use this? It will be totally useless with FF. Now you will say "ooh well Mr Hardcore, that's just another challenge" well honestly, I think that is just lazy or thoughtless programming right there. 

This is part of what all of the "haters" as many call them are feeling. Couple this with the complete loss of a tactical camera and the loss of full dialogue to choose from, and PC gamers find themselves thinking "wait, why did I like this game before?"

I don't know if this will impact on sales. I think definitely the PC might take a slight hit, but so far, I feel that the consoles will more than make up for it. It does make me kind of sad, because it was nice, to feel that just maybe, there was going to be one SINGLE franchise, that catered to people who love true cRPGs. 

#86
Crunchyinmilk

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KBomb wrote...
I stumbled into a Tali love thread (being a fan of her myself) and immediatly regretted that decision... Never again.

BloodRaith wrote...
Yeah, some of it was...beyond words.


I thought I was just unlucky on the day I did that (copped some fan fic about her going to the toilet in her suit), its always that bad?

#87
Maria Caliban

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The BioWare forums are very creepy. Sure, they're not /g/ level creepy, but I'm not sure we can judge the RPGCodex too harshly.

#88
RohanD

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Merced652 wrote...

rpgcodex <3


It is seriously one of the funniest websites online, but your geek level has to be very high to understand it, which is why I think the "doesn't scale to your level" tagline is really awesome hahaha

#89
SG60

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Maria Caliban wrote...

The BioWare forums are very creepy. Sure, they're not /g/ level creepy, but I'm not sure we can judge the RPGCodex too harshly.


It's a different kind of creepy though. RPGCodex is angry neckbeards, the Bioware forums is creepy lovethread central.

#90
Pudenry

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RohanD wrote...

I think there has been a resoundingly negative reaction to the demo from PC gamers, that much is sure.

Whether this will hold true for the full game or not is yet to be seen, but I have to admit, after the demo, I wasn't happy.

I am by no means an exclusive "elitist" PC gamer. I've drifted in and out of consoles and computers all my life, started off with the C64 and Amiga 500 then moved almost exclusively into consoles until around 2000. 

I played old cRPGs like Dungeon Master, Might & Magic, Pools of Radiance, Champions/Deathknights of Krynn...but I also played lots of games all the way through in Japanese even when I couldn't read any of the text (Breath of Fire comes to mind) 

The Baldur's Gate Saga would definitely be in my top 5 games of all time, but so would Final Fantasy Tactics. I love Capcom, used to competitively play Street Fighter, and did some of the hardest challenges in the DMC and Onimusha games. 

So basically I am pretty across the board gamer, but I will never spend time with a game which I do not think is 100% quality.

Now I hear a lot of the arguments against the so-called PC "elite" saying they fear change. I disagree with this strongly. I do not think they fear change. Did they hate the changes from BGI to BGII? Did they hate Planescape Torment? Was DA:O not given a very warm welcome by them? These are all different games that were, by and large, loved by PC gamers. They live on as classic pieces of gaming history to many of them (myself included). So please, don't brush their concerns aside with a simple "oh you're just an old fart who fears change". It's just plain wrong.

Now, onto what I feel is really the biggest issue with DA2's direction, the combat. Sure, there are many other points people are voicing displeasure about, but this to me stands out as the most consistently talked about one. 

I see so many people say "The combat is just like DA:O! It''s just faster and there's more flashly animations". Don't you see, that you are contradicting yourself in this statement? How can the combat be exactly the same, but then different? I'll give you an example from an enormously popular and excellent gaming franchise: when Street Fighter II moved from Champion Edition to Hyperfighting and the game was sped up considerably, it changed forever (in that case for the better). 

So my point is, that the speed of the combat, in my belief, has fundamentally changed the way a large part of the game works. It intrinsically has moved DA away from a tactical approach to playing. Look at all the Final Fantasy Tactics games, or their related titles (the fantastic Tactics Ogre just got re-released for PSP). These are pure, turn based games. Strategy requires thought, timing, planning. How can you do this when everything happens at light speed? Sure you can pause, but really, I have to be brutally honest, the pausing in DA2 so far seemed totally pointless. Why? Because when I paused and issued a command then unpaused, the action was over so quickly that I had to pause again instantly to issue the next command. It just seemed totally redundant and not the way the game was meant to be played. 

Now someone will bring up that the game was on normal difficulty. Okay, sure. I played DA:O on nightmare, it was the only difficulty that made the combat in the game interesting and challenging for me. The problem with DA2 that I am already seeing is that...the combat seems so twitchy that I don't think making it harder will actually make it more fun. I think it will actually just turn into a frustrating mess. Look at that firestorm spell, with FF turned on, would you every actually use this? It will be totally useless with FF. Now you will say "ooh well Mr Hardcore, that's just another challenge" well honestly, I think that is just lazy or thoughtless programming right there. 

This is part of what all of the "haters" as many call them are feeling. Couple this with the complete loss of a tactical camera and the loss of full dialogue to choose from, and PC gamers find themselves thinking "wait, why did I like this game before?"

I don't know if this will impact on sales. I think definitely the PC might take a slight hit, but so far, I feel that the consoles will more than make up for it. It does make me kind of sad, because it was nice, to feel that just maybe, there was going to be one SINGLE franchise, that catered to people who love true cRPGs. 


Fantastic post, summed up how I'm feeling perfectly.

#91
Merced652

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RohanD wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

rpgcodex <3


It is seriously one of the funniest websites online, but your geek level has to be very high to understand it, which is why I think the "doesn't scale to your level" tagline is really awesome hahaha


lol yea, i mean people take them wayyy wayyy too seriously. Sure they may genuinely be jerks sometimes but its mostly in good fun. Calling them angry neckbeards is par for bioware forum's course though.

#92
SG60

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Merced652 wrote...

RohanD wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

rpgcodex <3


It is seriously one of the funniest websites online, but your geek level has to be very high to understand it, which is why I think the "doesn't scale to your level" tagline is really awesome hahaha


lol yea, i mean people take them wayyy wayyy too seriously. Sure they may genuinely be jerks sometimes but its mostly in good fun. Calling them angry neckbeards is par for bioware forum's course though.


...Are you psychic?

#93
Merced652

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no i had read your reply :P

Modifié par Merced652, 26 février 2011 - 10:02 .


#94
Dave of Canada

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... they posted pictures of dead cats saying that was what "Bio****" was turning their games into, they said that the female writers of the staff are incompetent because of their gender and they were generally being offensive.

Sorry if I don't take the codex too seriously.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 février 2011 - 10:05 .


#95
RohanD

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Dave of Canada wrote...

... they posted pictures of dead cats saying that was what "Bio****" was turning their games into, they said that the female writers of the staff are incompetent because of their gender and they were generally being offensive.

Sorry if I don't take the codex too seriously.


Cool story bro

#96
SG60

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Merced652 wrote...

no i had read your reply :P


I figured, but I had to ask anyway.

#97
Merced652

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Dave of Canada wrote...

... they posted pictures of dead cats saying that was what "Bio****" was turning their games into, they said that the female writers of the staff are incompetent because of their gender and they were generally being offensive.

Sorry if I don't take the codex too seriously.


appears you already have.
:innocent:

#98
FellowerOfOdin

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Well, RPGCodex does have a lot of vital points.



Remember how the encounter design, the endless trash mobs were criticized in DAO? Well, Mike Laidlaws answer is: even more ****ty trashmobs, spawning in waves, appearing out of thin air.



100% true.

#99
Zigzaggy

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JohnEpler wrote...

'Thanks for ruining RPGs', however, is rarely a valid or useful criticism.


Historical evidence would tend to dismiss that statement as nothing but a devs soundbite..

As gamers we hardly need to compile an indepth constructive criticism...as developers you are fully away of what you have stripped from the traditional format of Origins , what you have streamlined.At best we would only be reminding you.

It's a little disengenious to hide behind it to be honest.

Bioware have made no secret of the fact the game is developed for console and a younger audience..DA2 is less cerebral and uncomplicated, so a new gamer can jump right into it out of the box.

You may have a short term success with DA2 but at what cost . If console hate it they won't be back and you've ruined the franchise..

As Origins was about Bioware  'getting back to the roots' of the traditional RPG...which done really well .One has to ask why change direction with the franchise. We've yet to recieve an answer to that.

Modifié par Zigzaggy, 26 février 2011 - 10:12 .


#100
FellowerOfOdin

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Zigzaggy wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

'Thanks for ruining RPGs', however, is rarely a valid or useful criticism.


Historical evidence would tend to dismiss that statement as nothing but a devs soundbite..

As gamers we hardly need to compile an indepth constructive criticism...as developers you are fully away of what you have stripped from the traditional format of Origins , what you have streamlined.At best we would only be reminding you.

It's a little disengenious to hide behind it to be honest.

Bioware have made no secret of the fact the game is developed for console and a younger audience..DA2 is less cerebral and uncomplicated, so a new gamer can jump right into it out of the box.

You may have a short term success with DA2 but at what cost . If console hate it they won't be back and you've ruined the franchise..

As Origins was about Bioware  'getting back to the roots' of the traditional RPG...which done rather well .One has to ask why change direction with the franchise. We've yet to recieve an answer to that.


EA.