369 réponses à ce sujet

[packardbell]

RohanD wrote...

packardbell wrote...

I enjoyed the demo and couldn't care less what other people thought of it.

That's great. I'm happy for you. 

I'm happy for me too.

[mesmerizedish]

packardbell wrote...

RohanD wrote...

packardbell wrote...

I enjoyed the demo and couldn't care less what other people thought of it.

That's great. I'm happy for you. 

I'm happy for me too.

I'm happy for us both.

[marshalleck]

Rixxencaxx wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

BloodRaith wrote...

So... we're the only ones that like it i take it? Can't say i care for what i saw on those forums though. One of the posters claims basically that pc gamers are more likely to go to college than console gamers... Sounds like elitism to me :/

It's usually a good idea to head into these things with the understanding that those who feel negatively tend to be more likely to post in forums and reply to articles about these sorts of things than those who were either positive or neutral. Does that mean that we don't take any of this into consideration? No, of course not - there are always valid and useful criticisms to take into consideration.

'Thanks for ruining RPGs', however, is rarely a valid or useful criticism.

i suppose that you at bioware repeat this mantra to yourself every day...

" we can't be wrong....the majority of people who liked the demo is silent....the criticism is from a loud minority....etc etc"...
However i am pretty sure that, honestly, you all know that this game rapresents only the shadow of the quality of the old bioware
Who knows? let's wait for sales numbers....and then talk about it....maybe i am wrong,,,,maybe you....

And while we're waiting for sales numbers, we could look at polls surveying the resident forum community regarding the demo. And what do they show? Strong support and/or enthusiasm for Dragon Age 2. 

http://social.biowar...83/polls/15748/ - weak poll, only 124 votes
http://social.biowar...39/polls/15707/ - another weak one, 58 votes
http://social.biowar...69/polls/15661/ - this is more like it, 531 votes
http://social.biowar...69/polls/15656/ - this one shows more balanced response, 238 votes
http://social.biowar...89/polls/15635/ - another overwhelmingly positive response I'd say, 1237 votes
http://social.biowar...62/polls/15630/ - poor options on this one, but still positive, low response. 85 votes

And that's up to the first 130 polls posted recently over the last 3 days. There are probably more that I either missed or were named poorly and resulted in my skipping them over. 

All the standard caveats apply regarding sample size and whatnot, but I've no real reason to believe that the sentiment of poll respondents is not representative of the larger body of gamers in general. Mass Effect 2 received, and still receives a thrashing on these forums for being "sold out" and "dumbed down" and "not really an RPG" but it garnered a broadly positive critical response from media (bleh) and gamers alike, and thatreception was reflected in polls prior to release, just after release, and up to now depending on what opinion the poll is surveying and how the questions and options are worded. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 février 2011 - 11:56 .

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Or I-don't-know-what. I interpreted it as sarcasm, and I couldn't think of any alternatives.

Forget it. I was being creepy.

[Aldandil]

Kordaris wrote...

RohanD wrote...

At first glance this is a fair statement. But think about the long term. With DA:O, Bioware was a unique developer in an industry swamped by fast paced 3D action games and the dwindling influence of JRPGs (FFXIII was a big shock to the system, and XIV has been a complete failure). They had a great opportunity with the sequel to solidify themselves as a truely great RPG developer that could maintain a high regard in both the PC and Console markets. 

I believe they have missed the point entirely. When you have a business model that is unique from one which has saturated the market, moving into that saturated market and abandoning what makes you unique is a pretty horrible move. You better bring something absolutely amazing or you are going to get lost in a sea of oversized swords and back flips. Do you think anyone would truly bother to try and enter the mp3 player market now and hope to become a major player against Apple?

I think ME was able to do this because frankly, there isn't anyone doing anything remotely similar in the shooter or rpg genres to match it. 

Now if DA2 is a console game, it is competing against all other console games. There's some really big established names in this area that have been there far longer, and have sold many, many more games than Bioware has.

Turning their nose up at the PC market also ties in to this. Let's be honest, the highest selling games on the PC are MMO's, FPSs, RTSs and RPGs. That's 4 main genres. The console has...many many more. That means more competition for sales because you have many more titles to compete against. If they had concentrated on making DA2 again a PC game but improved it drastically for the consoles (which I strongly believe could have been done without taking such a drastic shift) I think they would have been in a much better position. 

There are huge advantages to being in a niche market, especially when that niche isn't really a niche at all but is actually quite sizable. But it seems that Bioware or EA or both didn't see things this way for DA2.

I personally think, it may have been a much, MUCH smarter move, to label this game as a spin off and not a direct sequel, because let's be honest, that's what it feels like. 

Some very good points here. By trying to create average games that appeal to mass market, instead of unique ones, they are going to compete on a very big and deep sea with very old and cunning sharks.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years Bioware will cease to exist due to that move. Sure they can go on for a while using their past hits, but as their games will get more and more mediocre, the past won't be their ace in the sleeve to market the games.
And somehow I doubt they will be making games able to compete with Call of Duty or God of War.

Drakensang is a pretty unique game, a die-hard P&P translation made fairly recently. Are you predicting that it's follow-ups will do better than Mass Effect games, who certainly adresses a wider audience? I'd also like to add that Mass Effect really is a lot more casual friendly and similar to what is out on the market than DA2, and that game hasn't been torn to pieces or drowned yet.

[RohanD]

Moondoggie wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...
Who knows? let's wait for sales numbers....and then talk about it....maybe i am wrong,,,,maybe you....

I think they will ride somewhat on their previous hits for a while.But DA3 sales will be most interesting....

You just know if it sells well some people will be like "OMGZ IT SOLD ON CONSOLES COS THEY STREAMLINED IT TO APPEAL TO CONSOLE KIDS!!! BIOWARE SOLD OUT!!!"

DA2 will sell well, and this statement will be funny, true, and most likely get hundreds of awesomely funny replies on RPGCodex. I look forward to it. 

[TwistedComplex]

Moondoggie wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...
Who knows? let's wait for sales numbers....and then talk about it....maybe i am wrong,,,,maybe you....

I think they will ride somewhat on their previous hits for a while.But DA3 sales will be most interesting....

You just know if it sells well some people will be like "OMGZ IT SOLD ON CONSOLES COS THEY STREAMLINED IT TO APPEAL TO CONSOLE KIDS!!! BIOWARE SOLD OUT!!!"

Exactly

People who don't like DA2 will make any excuse as long as it makes them feel like they're not in the minority

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Or I-don't-know-what. I interpreted it as sarcasm, and I couldn't think of any alternatives.

Forget it. I was being creepy.

And if you were "being creepy," then on balance, I'd probably swoon. But that's just me.

[RohanD]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Your avatar is fan art of Merrill becoming aroused while reading a sex scene between Varric and Carver. Would you consider that a touch creepy?

Well, yes. As I said, the parts I visit are probably among the creepier. But, on balance, even that's not that creepy.

What about Fenris having glowing **** and the picture of him as a cat boy chained to Lady Hawke's bed?

Would you consider those 'that creepy?'

Enh. Again, on balance...

Sorry guys, but seriously WTF are you talking about and why is it being discussed in this thread LOL 

I'm not saying stop or go away or anything, I'm just wondering like seriously..what is this I don't even...

[Nighteye2]

RohanD wrote...
Gameblurb

I agree most with this one. They complain about all the 'features' of DA2 I argued against, explaining why I preferred the original DA:O version. Full-text, tactical camera, etc...

[AkiKishi]

RohanD wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...
Who knows? let's wait for sales numbers....and then talk about it....maybe i am wrong,,,,maybe you....

I think they will ride somewhat on their previous hits for a while.But DA3 sales will be most interesting....

You just know if it sells well some people will be like "OMGZ IT SOLD ON CONSOLES COS THEY STREAMLINED IT TO APPEAL TO CONSOLE KIDS!!! BIOWARE SOLD OUT!!!"

DA2 will sell well, and this statement will be funny, true, and most likely get hundreds of awesomely funny replies on RPGCodex. I look forward to it. 

Between advertising and Biowares name and the Dragon Age in the title, that's a given. Most people buy things without looking at reviews and will only notice the change after purchase. It's whether or not those same people stop buying future games. You know the old saying "fool me once" and all that.

Bioware can get away with it, because they don't have any real competition, there may be better RPG makers out there. But they can't match Biowares production values.
It's like the SquareEnix situation, plenty of Japanese developers make excellent RPGs but they don't have the budget SE have.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 26 février 2011 - 11:53 .

[RohanD]

Aldandil wrote...
 I'd also like to add that Mass Effect really is ... similar to what is out on the market than DA2, and that game hasn't been torn to pieces or drowned yet.

Actually, I don't think there are too many FPS/RPG Space Opera hybrids on the market at the moment. Can you name 3 others?

[finc.loki]

RohanD wrote...

Eurogamer

Rockpapershotgun

Gameblurb

Steam

RPGCodex (if it's not your cup of tea, it's still good for teh lulz)

Enjoy!

RPGCODEX

I've never seen so much self-entitled bull in my whole life.
They seem to complain about any RPG in existance.
I guess only NW and Baldurs gate and pen and paper RPG's are good enough for them.

They actually talk like what THEY think is the RIGHT way.

Everyone has an opinion, just like we all have ***holes. Only difference is there is more crap coming out with their opinions.

[RohanD]

packardbell wrote...

RohanD wrote...

packardbell wrote...

I enjoyed the demo and couldn't care less what other people thought of it.

That's great. I'm happy for you. 

I'm happy for me too.

But then, you obviously care about what people think about what you think or you wouldn't be telling people what you think in a thread where most people don't think like you think. 

[mesmerizedish]

RohanD wrote...

Sorry guys, but seriously WTF are you talking about and why is it being discussed in this thread LOL 

I'm not saying stop or go away or anything, I'm just wondering like seriously..what is this I don't even...

Don't judge me! And don't judge Maria! Our love transcends boundaries?

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Or I-don't-know-what. I interpreted it as sarcasm, and I couldn't think of any alternatives.

Forget it. I was being creepy.

And if you were "being creepy," then on balance, I'd probably swoon. But that's just me.

It might be the hour, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how you're using it that phrase.

That said, swooning is good.

Edit: A website said it means 'all things considered.' I get it now. Strange, it's an American idiom, but I've never heard it previously.

Is it regional?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 26 février 2011 - 11:58 .

[marshalleck]

Kordaris wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

http://social.biowar...83/polls/15748/ - weak poll, only 124 votes
http://social.biowar...39/polls/15707/ - another weak one, 58 votes
http://social.biowar...69/polls/15661/ - this is more like it, 531 votes
http://social.biowar...69/polls/15656/ - this one shows more balanced response, 238 votes
http://social.biowar...89/polls/15635/ - another overwhelmingly positive response I'd say, 1237 votes
http://social.biowar...62/polls/15630/ - poor options on this one, but still positive, low response. 85 votes

And that's up to the first 130 polls posted recently over the last 3 days. There are probably more that I either missed or were named poorly and resulted in my skipping them over. 

You may want to see poll on the new Darkspawn.

Why would I? That's specifically regarding the look of the new darkspawn, not DA2 in general. Or am I wrong in that assumption?

Indeed the polls I selected vary a bit in terms of the opinion they're surveying, but have you ever looked at the BSN poll listing page? It's not exactly search-friendly. In fact, I don't think it can be searched at all. I had read the title and abstract of each of the first 130 polls to create that list. I'm sure I missed some, but I really didn't want to spend an hour reading every single one.

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 février 2011 - 11:59 .

[Nighteye2]

marshalleck wrote...
And while we're waiting for sales numbers, we could look at polls surveying the resident forum community regarding the demo. And what do they show? Strong support and/or enthusiasm for Dragon Age 2. 

http://social.biowar...83/polls/15748/ - weak poll, only 124 votes
http://social.biowar...39/polls/15707/ - another weak one, 58 votes
http://social.biowar...69/polls/15661/ - this is more like it, 531 votes
http://social.biowar...69/polls/15656/ - this one shows more balanced response, 238 votes
http://social.biowar...89/polls/15635/ - another overwhelmingly positive response I'd say, 1237 votes
http://social.biowar...62/polls/15630/ - poor options on this one, but still positive, low response. 85 votes

And that's up to the first 130 polls posted recently over the last 3 days. There are probably more that I either missed or were named poorly and resulted in my skipping them over. 

All the standard caveats apply regarding sample size and whatnot, but I've no real reason to believe that the sentiment of poll respondents is not representative of the larger body of gamers in general. Mass Effect 2 received, and still receives a thrashing on these forums for being "sold out" but it received a broadly positive critical response, and that was reflected in polls prior to release, just after release, and up to now depending on what opinion the poll is surveying and how the questions and options are worded. 

The only thing those polls indicate is that people expect there'll still be enough good things left to want to buy DA2 - in spite of everything they don't like about it.

Individual features tell a different story:
http://social.biowar...477/polls/7972/ - only 17% likes the dialogue wheel, 62% prefers full-text and the rest doesn't care. (124 votes)

I expect a poll about the (lack of a tactical) camera would give similar result, with a majority disliking the lack of a tactical camera.

But in spite of disliking these 'features' of DA2, many of them will still buy it on day 1 - because they have faith in Bioware.

Modifié par Nighteye2, 26 février 2011 - 12:01 .

[Aldandil]

RohanD wrote...

Aldandil wrote...
 I'd also like to add that Mass Effect really is ... similar to what is out on the market than DA2, and that game hasn't been torn to pieces or drowned yet.

Actually, I don't think there are too many FPS/RPG Space Opera hybrids on the market at the moment. Can you name 3 others?

I can name plenty of FPSs. I can't think of a lot of story-centric group based tactical rpgs in a fantasy setting a part from DA2 though. Drakensang, I suppose, which is only on the PC.

[Bigdoser]

Honestly the starting area of DAO was not hard at all :X

[The Elder King]

Kordaris wrote...

Ada Wong wrote...

ok, since the demo is basically DA2's tutorial level, should people be judging the full game based on that?

Really? Than compare the demo to any Origins story and you will see the difference.

Comparing DAO origins with DA2 "tutorial", I can say that they are both very easy games on Normal. I completed ALL the origins alone, stopping companions. And I don't like some of the origins.

Not that I don't like the origins concept. They were an interesting concept, but have little influence on the rest of the game.

Modifié par hhh89, 26 février 2011 - 12:06 .

[Aldandil]

Nighteye2 wrote...

But in spite of disliking these 'features' of DA2, many of them will still buy it on day 1 - because they have faith in Bioware.

I dislike those "features" and will buy the game on day one, not because I have "faith" in BioWare, but because I believe I will enjoy the game nonetheless. I think that what everyone will find interesting is how many people who like those "features" will get hooked on DA2. It's quite possible that it's not that many, but there's no way of knowing that in advance.