184 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Gremlin]

You can't have both good story AND an unsatisfying ending. It's either former or latter.



The reviewer is exaggerating one of these. Either story is actually not really good, or the ending is actually quite satisfying.

[AkiKishi]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

You can't have both good story AND an unsatisfying ending. It's either former or latter.

The reviewer is exaggerating one of these. Either story is actually not really good, or the ending is actually quite satisfying.

Yes you can it's called an anti-climax.

[Amioran]

As I said in another thread with sequels reviewers expect things that would require a decade of working to be fulfilled, and in many cases these expectations are totally out of place given the original title.

This review is a demonstration of that point. It was already posted, but now it is with more detail and we can see how many "issues" brought by the reviewer aren't really objective, either because out of context or because bias toward something that neither existed in the original.

Now, before someone calls me on attacking some others opinion a thing must be said: when you review something it's not only a matter of opinion, because you express a judgment, and a judgement to be called so must be based on objective parameters (or at last should).

- limited possibility of developing your class

You have a lot of options to develop the character, in fact you have many more choices than in DAO and they are not linear as before. The points you can achieve are on par with DAO (either a little more, considering what Peter has said), so the customization is much better, objectively, than before.

Now, I don't know from where the reviewer come from but A) DA has never been a Gothic like game where you can mix & match abilities as you like, so it doesn't make sense to expect DA2 to have the same system (that has also many drawbacks too, so it's not clearly "better"), and it depends on how you play the game. If you skip all sidequest and/or ways to obtain bonus ability points than it's more your fault than the one of the game.

- very weak level design

For the criticism of copy-pasting there's no rpg game that doesn't do it. I doubt it will be any worse than DAO and any other title in particular, as I doubt the copy-paste will be on par to the one in Oblivion (or Gothic), for example.

For open maps, etc. this has never been the fundamental point of Bioware games. If the reviewere expected a sandbox type of game then it is obvious he would have been deluded, because the expections woul be out of place. Neither the original (DAO) had really open maps and I doubt that DA2 will be much different. In short: it depends what "linear" means for the reviewer and the context this judgment is based on. I highly doubt, in fact, that maps will have only a path, firstly because devs have clearly stated it's not the case, and secondly because devs would be literal geniuses if they were able to create a city (since the game is based mostly on it) without open paths. They would win a prize for the better done urbanistic plan of the century.

- and an absolute unsatisfying ending

On this I will not pronunce until I don't see it, but, anyway, it depends on what the reviewer intends. Unsatisfying, in fact, can also meant the ending to be compelling if, for example, it is cut abruptly. Not always what may be considered "bad" from a technical point of view it's really so on the emotions parameters.

Conclusion:
They say to fully enjoy Dragon Age 2, you have to accept that the time of old-fashioned RPGs is over.

As if there is a way only to make an old-fashioned RPG. This sentence only demonstrates that the reviewer expected something, got something different in return, and couldn't adapt, blaming the medium instead of himself. There are not strict rules on mediums, what matters is that the context isn't changed, the specific isn't that important. Instead many just focus on the specific discarding the context, and so you have someone as Delacroix removed from the art exhibition of the time when he actually plasmated impressionism/expressionism later.

Modifié par Amioran, 26 février 2011 - 01:27 .

[Arisato]

rob_k wrote...

Covi wrote...

TripedWire wrote...

Shandyr wrote...


Conclusion:
They say to fully enjoy Dragon Age 2, you have to accept that the time of old-fashioned RPGs is over.

False. CDProjektRed is going to drop the witcher 2 soon and it will own DA2. They've picked up the baton BioWare has tossed away. The rise of the RPGlite is being ushered in with DA2 but the proper genre is not dead.

The Witcher 2 is not even party-based. It's more like Fable, just darker.

Plus the combat seems action heavy outside of signs/magic. Left click to use light blows and right click to use strong blows is what I gathered from a recent Gamespot preview on the combat.

If the melee combat in TW2 is anything like the first one then in my opinion it's going to be more hack and slash than DA2. I say that as someone who completed The Witcher alot of times and happens to like the series before you all start screaming and shouting.

[marcusgs221]

its kinda hard to b*tch about not being an open world since DA or any of the games it is related to have never had an open world set up. no matter what game your playing a (even if its open world) when you get to wherever your going you always ie. cave, crypt whatever its always in a corridor of some type anyway.

[Arttis]

I like how subtle it is.

[dakphillips]

Garlant wrote...

Why would they mess about with changing the way you can equip your allies? Isnt the game supposed to last "10 years" - Are our allies really going to be wearing 2 sets of clothes that entire time?

For me one of the fun things about Dragon Age, and most rpgs that havent been ruined, is collecting lots of useful equipment and kitting out characters in certain ways. If its literally going to be just the main character that you're collecting equipment for (questing for allies 2nd equip) then that side of the game is going to be over quick.

This is the only thing I was a bit put off by.  DA:O didn't have great level designs and that didn't bother me.  But one of the things I liked about that game was tracking down every peice of good loot I could fine (even those my character couldn't use), so that by the end most of my companions had awe-inspiring gear to match my own.  Not a huge deal, but it's one of those little things I got motivated to spend more time looking around for.

[Shandyr]

Just wanted to tell you that I updatet my first post, since I found some more information on PC Games about Dragon Age 2.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

so far so good

[Nighteye2]

I hope Bioware is paying attention, and DA3 will be more like DA:O again...

[Tsuga C]

Shandyr wrote...
Now what I find curious is that - the points that are criticised by the editors about Dragon Age 2 sound to me like the mass-effect-syndrome. Yet Mass Effect 2 had received the "Editors Choice Award"

This is because Mass Effect 2 was faithful to its Mass Effect "shooter first, cRPG second" roots and, as you observed, DA2 morphed away from DA:O and became Dragon Effect.  They were supposed to be two different game series designed for two different consumer groups, but EAWare chose to blur the distinction in DA2.  Not good. 

[Demo-Mike]

I think that this shouldn't be allowed.



How do you have a rushed ugly game with same enviroments and score it 9/10?



I think this sends the wrong message to Bioware/EA. You don't get the same score of a 5 year prime RPG with 50+ hours of content, and a rushed 1 year game. You don't give the same score, have some standards! I want BIoware to put effort into RPG eagin.

[Wivvix]

You can't manage your parties equipment? What the !@#$?
This can hardly be called an RPG. They've removed so much of what constitutes an RPG that it is now more action game with talent points than anything.

This game becomes worse with each day that passes.

[kr33g0r]

Wivvix wrote...

You can't manage your parties equipment? What the !@#$?
This can hardly be called an RPG. They've removed so much of what constitutes an RPG that it is now more action game with talent points than anything.

This game becomes worse with each day that passes.

DA2, you are dead to me.

I may pick you up in a bargain bin somewhere in the distant future so I can at least get the story which will probably still be great.

Modifié par kr33g0r, 28 février 2011 - 05:37 .

[Inzhuna]

What Amioran said.

[Vicious]

Mass Effect 2 has excellent level design. Areas tend to be very unique.

Looks like DA2 rehashes the same levels over and over.

[Chuvvy]

Same things keep popping up, bad level design and a bad ending. My money's on copypasted environments and lifelessness. Also an ending that is either open ended or Varric saying "Nah just ****in with ya, here's how it all went down."

Modifié par Slidell505, 28 février 2011 - 06:05 .

[pezit]

SG60 wrote...

Shandyr wrote...

"limited possibility of developing your class" means less options when leveling up. People who like long, compilcated talent-trees will be disappointed.

I don't see how it's that much different from origins' four squares in a straight line deal.

I see similar arguments all the time, just because someone is not satisfied with something doesn't mean it was any better in DA:O.

[Chuvvy]

Vicious wrote...

Mass Effect 2 has excellent level design. Areas tend to be very unique.

You being serious right now?

[Barbosa]

furryfox96 wrote...

 

DIVINE PARODY, JUST LOVE IT!

[DarthSliver]

Amioran wrote...

As I said in another thread with sequels reviewers expect things that would require a decade of working to be fulfilled, and in many cases these expectations are totally out of place given the original title.

This review is a demonstration of that point. It was already posted, but now it is with more detail and we can see how many "issues" brought by the reviewer aren't really objective, either because out of context or because bias toward something that neither existed in the original.

Now, before someone calls me on attacking some others opinion a thing must be said: when you review something it's not only a matter of opinion, because you express a judgment, and a judgement to be called so must be based on objective parameters (or at last should).

- limited possibility of developing your class

You have a lot of options to develop the character, in fact you have many more choices than in DAO and they are not linear as before. The points you can achieve are on par with DAO (either a little more, considering what Peter has said), so the customization is much better, objectively, than before.

Now, I don't know from where the reviewer come from but A) DA has never been a Gothic like game where you can mix & match abilities as you like, so it doesn't make sense to expect DA2 to have the same system (that has also many drawbacks too, so it's not clearly "better"), and it depends on how you play the game. If you skip all sidequest and/or ways to obtain bonus ability points than it's more your fault than the one of the game.

- very weak level design

For the criticism of copy-pasting there's no rpg game that doesn't do it. I doubt it will be any worse than DAO and any other title in particular, as I doubt the copy-paste will be on par to the one in Oblivion (or Gothic), for example.

For open maps, etc. this has never been the fundamental point of Bioware games. If the reviewere expected a sandbox type of game then it is obvious he would have been deluded, because the expections woul be out of place. Neither the original (DAO) had really open maps and I doubt that DA2 will be much different. In short: it depends what "linear" means for the reviewer and the context this judgment is based on. I highly doubt, in fact, that maps will have only a path, firstly because devs have clearly stated it's not the case, and secondly because devs would be literal geniuses if they were able to create a city (since the game is based mostly on it) without open paths. They would win a prize for the better done urbanistic plan of the century.

- and an absolute unsatisfying ending

On this I will not pronunce until I don't see it, but, anyway, it depends on what the reviewer intends. Unsatisfying, in fact, can also meant the ending to be compelling if, for example, it is cut abruptly. Not always what may be considered "bad" from a technical point of view it's really so on the emotions parameters.

Conclusion:
They say to fully enjoy Dragon Age 2, you have to accept that the time of old-fashioned RPGs is over.

As if there is a way only to make an old-fashioned RPG. This sentence only demonstrates that the reviewer expected something, got something different in return, and couldn't adapt, blaming the medium instead of himself. There are not strict rules on mediums, what matters is that the context isn't changed, the specific isn't that important. Instead many just focus on the specific discarding the context, and so you have someone as Delacroix removed from the art exhibition of the time when he actually plasmated impressionism/expressionism later.

                                                                                    ^^This^^

[DarthSliver]

DA:O has flaws too people but i dont see people pointing them out.

And from what i understand and seen, Bioware makes great story but the ending always seems bad. Hence Star Wars: The Old Repubic MMO

[Syrellaris]

hows the Star Wars the old republic Mmo a bad thing exactly? So far it looks awsome and the story in it is compelling enough.

[Vena_86]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Unsatisfying ending. That's brilliant. No where near as hyped for this game now, all the reviews have said it's got a weak ending and storyline.

Weak ending seems common, strong storyline seems common. 

Though one of the common pros is good companions and reactivity to choices with decisions that matter - which is a huge deal for me.  And one of the most common cons is recycled areas, which conceptually I dislike, but didn't mind - just thought it was kinda funny - in Mass Effect 1, so I don't care about that so much.

Still to each his own.

Edit: Marking down Bioware for not having an open world is like criticizing a racing game for not having a strategy map.

Open world does't have to be like in Oblivion or Gothic but atleast something to explore besides the one path to victory. Like the citadel in ME1.