139 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonoru]

Purgatious wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

He let a boy under his care become an abomination, gets lily sent to aeonar, poisons the arl of redcliff, and you can get him to kill the wife of the arl to fix it.

No body who uses blood magic, either from their own blood, or others is good.

Connor becomes an abomination because of his mother.Jowan learnt him basic stuff.Besides a demon could have felt Connor's power before Jowan teach him.Jowan also could have been a bad teacher.
Morrigan which is an apostate would also have been a bad teacher.Even Wynne which is a ranked mage from the circle.

He poisoned the Arl because he was ordered to by the Teyrn Loghain and as a bargain for his life.

Lily get punished for helping a blood mage to escape,yes,but Jowan wouldn't have used blood magic if it wasn't for her.He was ready to give up all magic for her.

Killing the Arlessa is optional.

In the end all the facts you mentionned are not related(but the last one which is optional),to the fact that he is a blood mage.Any mage could have done the same.

Jowan is an dumb, not evil.

@LilyasAvalon

Yup,she is.

Rationalisation of evil actions doesn't make them less evil.

And I didn't say he 'caused connor to became possessed, he just let him practice magic as a cover to assassinate the arl (the one person he could have come clean to)

The point is he makes immoral choices, and thus isn't good.

So please tell me what where the good options for him then ?

He didn't kill anyone though,surprising for an evil person.Nor did he do all of these choices for any gain.
He did that to survive.

Simply.

[RainbowPenguin]

wulfsturm wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

She's saying exactly that. She made an entire thread griping about how ugly Isabela was.

/Shrug. Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hahaha, so true.
But in the demo Isabella offered both Male and Female Hawke to join her in her room at the Hanged Man. 

[Riosred2]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The first trailer seemed to hint at a possible betrayl by Isabella, so she could be classified as the 'bad girl' so to say.

Anyway, if the girls DO get Sebastian as a romancable, that means Bioware is logically going to release another romancable DLC, probably female, maybe you'll get the bad girl then.

Giving their track record for such things, I think it's pretty doubtful he'll be a LI.

Sebastian has already been confirmed by his writers to have quite a few flirt lines and they've neither denied or confirmed he is an LI. They're jsut telling us to wait and see. Bloody torturers. T_T

...besides, if Sebastian isn't a romanable by the time he comes out, he will be by the end of the first week, fangirls are probably making their Varric/Carver/Sebastian mods as we speak.

Do you think there is still hope for Seb?? Even though they have revealed the LIs?? (not getting hopes up). I didn't realize people still thought that.....

[contextual_entity]

Nonoru wrote...

Purgatious wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

He let a boy under his care become an abomination, gets lily sent to aeonar, poisons the arl of redcliff, and you can get him to kill the wife of the arl to fix it.

No body who uses blood magic, either from their own blood, or others is good.

Connor becomes an abomination because of his mother.Jowan learnt him basic stuff.Besides a demon could have felt Connor's power before Jowan teach him.Jowan also could have been a bad teacher.
Morrigan which is an apostate would also have been a bad teacher.Even Wynne which is a ranked mage from the circle.

He poisoned the Arl because he was ordered to by the Teyrn Loghain and as a bargain for his life.

Lily get punished for helping a blood mage to escape,yes,but Jowan wouldn't have used blood magic if it wasn't for her.He was ready to give up all magic for her.

Killing the Arlessa is optional.

In the end all the facts you mentionned are not related(but the last one which is optional),to the fact that he is a blood mage.Any mage could have done the same.

Jowan is an dumb, not evil.

@LilyasAvalon

Yup,she is.

Rationalisation of evil actions doesn't make them less evil.

And I didn't say he 'caused connor to became possessed, he just let him practice magic as a cover to assassinate the arl (the one person he could have come clean to)

The point is he makes immoral choices, and thus isn't good.

So please tell me what where the good options for him then ?

He didn't kill anyone though,surprising for an evil person.Nor did he do all of these choices for any gain.
He did that to survive.

Simply.

So if I steal food to survive that means stealing is fine then? It's a sympathic motive, but the act itself is still wrong.

What about if I end up trying to steal food and the guy catches me, and to escape, I kill him? Again just trying to survive, but does that justify murder?

Sympathetic motives do not make a characters actions any less reprehensible.

[Purgatious]

So please tell me what where the good options for him then ?

He didn't kill anyone though,surprising for an evil person.Nor did he do all of these choices for any gain.
He did that to survive.

Simply.

Not practising blood magic at all.

You don't have to kill to be immoral. Killing innocents to survive is immoral.

Again the arguement isn't that hes evil, its just that blood mages can't practice blood magic and still be good, though they don't have to be evil.

[DraCZeQQ]

RainbowPenguin wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...
It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

She's saying exactly that. She made an entire thread griping about how ugly Isabela was.
/Shrug. Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hahaha, so true.
But in the demo Isabella offered both Male and Female Hawke to join her in her room at the Hanged Man. 

Yea but Isabella is not cute ... =) and I'm the hater thats gonna hate even if Isabella is rollin  

[Count Viceroy]

I agree, Isabela is not cute. She's drop dead gorgeous.

[SkyWard20]

I think 'chaotic good' would be a good term for Merrill if she does not care about society's conventions and is out of sync with certain ethics her community follows. it's also possible, I think, for her to be neutral good because I'm not sure if the Dalish themselves forbid blood magic.

[RainbowPenguin]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...
It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

She's saying exactly that. She made an entire thread griping about how ugly Isabela was.
/Shrug. Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hahaha, so true.
But in the demo Isabella offered both Male and Female Hawke to join her in her room at the Hanged Man. 

Yea but Isabella is not cute ... =) and I'm the hater thats gonna hate even if Isabella is rollin  

Were her boobs too much? Or was it her ass?

[Zaldrak84]

Purgatious wrote...

Zaldrak84 wrote...

Purgatious wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

He let a boy under his care become an abomination, gets lily sent to aeonar, poisons the arl of redcliff, and you can get him to kill the wife of the arl to fix it.

No body who uses blood magic, either from their own blood, or others is good.

Connor becomes an abomination because of his mother.Jowan learnt him basic stuff.Besides a demon could have felt Connor's power before Jowan teach him.Jowan also could have been a bad teacher.
Morrigan which is an apostate would also have been a bad teacher.Even Wynne which is a ranked mage from the circle.

He poisoned the Arl because he was ordered to by the Teyrn Loghain and as a bargain for his life.

Lily get punished for helping a blood mage to escape,yes,but Jowan wouldn't have used blood magic if it wasn't for her.He was ready to give up all magic for her.

Killing the Arlessa is optional.

In the end all the facts you mentionned are not related(but the last one which is optional),to the fact that he is a blood mage.Any mage could have done the same.

Jowan is an dumb, not evil.

@LilyasAvalon

Yup,she is.

Rationalisation of evil actions doesn't make them less evil.

And I didn't say he 'caused connor to became possessed, he just let him practice magic as a cover to assassinate the arl (the one person he could have come clean to)

The point is he makes immoral choices, and thus isn't good.

Again look at the PC: he can be a Blood Mage and make all the good choices (and no, you don't have to do something evil to become one either, you can bully the demon into teaching you Blood Magic and then banish her anyway).

The PC is an exception in that he doesn't have to follow moral continuity like people do. And hurting your allies to heal yourself because your using forbidden magics that hurt yourself isn't very nice.

You don't have to do that (or your companions might be consenting, it all comes down to battle strategy in the end).

Plus what you said doesn't make sense: it's proven there can be good blood mages, because you can be one. And where there is one, there can be more. End of argument.

I bet Merril will end up being a good blood mage by the way.

[contextual_entity]

SkyWard20 wrote...

I think 'chaotic good' would be a good term for Merrill if she does not care about society's conventions and is out of sync with certain ethics her community follows. it's also possible, I think, for her to be neutral good because I'm not sure if the Dalish themselves forbid blood magic.

I don't know about the Dalish as a whole, but Marethari and her clan are opposed to the use of Blood Magic, hence why Merril ends up travelling with Hawke.

[DraCZeQQ]

RainbowPenguin wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...
It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

She's saying exactly that. She made an entire thread griping about how ugly Isabela was.
/Shrug. Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hahaha, so true.
But in the demo Isabella offered both Male and Female Hawke to join her in her room at the Hanged Man. 

Yea but Isabella is not cute ... =) and I'm the hater thats gonna hate even if Isabella is rollin  

Were her boobs too much? Or was it her ass?

Actually she is too much everything ... too much boobs, too much ass, too much that neck thing, too much chubby face, too much "easy" and I believe too much other things I will discover during actuall game ...

[SkyWard20]

Amitar wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

Purgatious wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

He let a boy under his care become an abomination, gets lily sent to aeonar, poisons the arl of redcliff, and you can get him to kill the wife of the arl to fix it.

No body who uses blood magic, either from their own blood, or others is good.

Connor becomes an abomination because of his mother.Jowan learnt him basic stuff.Besides a demon could have felt Connor's power before Jowan teach him.Jowan also could have been a bad teacher.
Morrigan which is an apostate would also have been a bad teacher.Even Wynne which is a ranked mage from the circle.

He poisoned the Arl because he was ordered to by the Teyrn Loghain and as a bargain for his life.

Lily get punished for helping a blood mage to escape,yes,but Jowan wouldn't have used blood magic if it wasn't for her.He was ready to give up all magic for her.

Killing the Arlessa is optional.

In the end all the facts you mentionned are not related(but the last one which is optional),to the fact that he is a blood mage.Any mage could have done the same.

Jowan is an dumb, not evil.

@LilyasAvalon

Yup,she is.

Rationalisation of evil actions doesn't make them less evil.

And I didn't say he 'caused connor to became possessed, he just let him practice magic as a cover to assassinate the arl (the one person he could have come clean to)

The point is he makes immoral choices, and thus isn't good.

So please tell me what where the good options for him then ?

He didn't kill anyone though,surprising for an evil person.Nor did he do all of these choices for any gain.
He did that to survive.

Simply.

So if I steal food to survive that means stealing is fine then? It's a sympathic motive, but the act itself is still wrong.

What about if I end up trying to steal food and the guy catches me, and to escape, I kill him? Again just trying to survive, but does that justify murder?

Sympathetic motives do not make a characters actions any less reprehensible.

I don't see how stealing food to survive is wrong in that context/makes a character reprehensible.

Therefore I don't think stealing is always wrong.

Modifié par SkyWard20, 26 février 2011 - 01:12 .

[LilyasAvalon]

RainbowPenguin wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Yea there is no cute F/F option either ... so suck it up!

It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

I remember her showing VERY obvious interest in F!Hawke in the demo.

[RainbowPenguin]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...
It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

She's saying exactly that. She made an entire thread griping about how ugly Isabela was.
/Shrug. Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hahaha, so true.
But in the demo Isabella offered both Male and Female Hawke to join her in her room at the Hanged Man. 

Yea but Isabella is not cute ... =) and I'm the hater thats gonna hate even if Isabella is rollin  

Were her boobs too much? Or was it her ass?

Actually she is too much everything ... too much boobs, too much ass, too much that neck thing, too much chubby face, too much "easy" and I believe too much other things I will discover during actuall game ...

I think that the demo isn't a good demonstration for character appearances. 

[Jenova65]

Count Viceroy wrote...

I agree, Isabela is not cute. She's drop dead gorgeous.

I am not interested in Isabela one bit  romantically (heterosexual female) but I would say she is definitely gorgeous (and whoever designed her bosom clearly loves boobs, they are a masterpiece, lol  ) and she is far more likely to be in my party than Merrill who could be the single most useful party member ever but as it stands I just don't envision me wanting her in my team.
Girly girls just make me gip a bit.......... 

[contextual_entity]

SkyWard20 wrote...
I don't see how stealing food to survive is wrong in that context/makes a character reprehensible.

I didn't say it made the character reprehensible, I said their actions where. There are many, many beloved characters in fiction that do horribly reprehensible things.

So would you arguing that stealing, for whatever motive, is not a reprehensible action?

[uzivatel]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Actually she is too much everything ... too much boobs, too much ass, too much that neck thing, too much chubby face, too much "easy" and I believe too much other things I will discover during actuall game ...

Too much awesome?

[RainbowPenguin]

SkyWard20 wrote...

Amitar wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

Purgatious wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

He let a boy under his care become an abomination, gets lily sent to aeonar, poisons the arl of redcliff, and you can get him to kill the wife of the arl to fix it.

No body who uses blood magic, either from their own blood, or others is good.

Connor becomes an abomination because of his mother.Jowan learnt him basic stuff.Besides a demon could have felt Connor's power before Jowan teach him.Jowan also could have been a bad teacher.
Morrigan which is an apostate would also have been a bad teacher.Even Wynne which is a ranked mage from the circle.

He poisoned the Arl because he was ordered to by the Teyrn Loghain and as a bargain for his life.

Lily get punished for helping a blood mage to escape,yes,but Jowan wouldn't have used blood magic if it wasn't for her.He was ready to give up all magic for her.

Killing the Arlessa is optional.

In the end all the facts you mentionned are not related(but the last one which is optional),to the fact that he is a blood mage.Any mage could have done the same.

Jowan is an dumb, not evil.

@LilyasAvalon

Yup,she is.

Rationalisation of evil actions doesn't make them less evil.

And I didn't say he 'caused connor to became possessed, he just let him practice magic as a cover to assassinate the arl (the one person he could have come clean to)

The point is he makes immoral choices, and thus isn't good.

So please tell me what where the good options for him then ?

He didn't kill anyone though,surprising for an evil person.Nor did he do all of these choices for any gain.
He did that to survive.

Simply.

So if I steal food to survive that means stealing is fine then? It's a sympathic motive, but the act itself is still wrong.

What about if I end up trying to steal food and the guy catches me, and to escape, I kill him? Again just trying to survive, but does that justify murder?

Sympathetic motives do not make a characters actions any less reprehensible.

I don't see how stealing food to survive is wrong in that context/makes a character reprehensible.

Therefore I don't think stealing is always wrong.

I agree. 

If you were put into the situation in which you are starving and alone in the streets and you had the oppertunity to get food, you'd take the chances of getting caught because one more day without food and you'd be dead! 

It's how humans are. Nothing to them is right or wrong when it comes to survival. They just do what is necessary for their survival.

[Nonoru]

@Amitar

I didn't say that what he did was right,please read what i wrote previously.I already said that all his choices in game are wrong.All i'm saying is while his deeds are not good,it was only made because he had none other choices besides dying.

Would you rather die than kill someone ? If i follow what you wrote i would assume yes. And that is the morally good choice. Now would that be the same answer from everyone ? I don't think so.
Some people don't wanna die and that might involves doing bad thing for survival.

@Purgatious 

Ok,let's agree on this.

Modifié par Nonoru, 26 février 2011 - 01:18 .

[Count Viceroy]

Jenova65 wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

I agree, Isabela is not cute. She's drop dead gorgeous.

I am not interested in Isabela one bit  romantically (heterosexual female) but I would say she is definitely gorgeous (and whoever designed her bosom clearly loves boobs, they are a masterpiece, lol  )

Well, she's written by a woman. I'm assuming the artists took inspiration from the writing. That can only be a good thing.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 26 février 2011 - 01:26 .

[DraCZeQQ]

RainbowPenguin wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...
It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

She's saying exactly that. She made an entire thread griping about how ugly Isabela was.
/Shrug. Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hahaha, so true.
But in the demo Isabella offered both Male and Female Hawke to join her in her room at the Hanged Man. 

Yea but Isabella is not cute ... =) and I'm the hater thats gonna hate even if Isabella is rollin  

Were her boobs too much? Or was it her ass?

Actually she is too much everything ... too much boobs, too much ass, too much that neck thing, too much chubby face, too much "easy" and I believe too much other things I will discover during actuall game ...

I think that the demo isn't a good demonstration for character appearances. 

Yea, maybe its her gypsy look ... they are not popular in my country

[contextual_entity]

Nonoru wrote...

@Amitar

I didn't say that what he did was right,please read what i wrote previously.I said that all his choices in game are wrong.All i'm saying is while his deeds are not good,it was only made because he had none other choices besides dying.

Would you rather die than kill someone ? If i follow what you wrote i would assume yes. And that is the morally good choice. Now would that be the same answer from everyone ? I don't think so.
Some people don't wanna die and that might involves doing bad thing for survival.

I understand that. I'm simply saying that the motive of survival doesn't make the action suddenly moral.

Understandable, sympathetic and necessary? Yes.
Moral? No.

RainbowPenguin wrote...
It's how humans are. Nothing to them
is right or wrong when it comes to survival. They just do what is
necessary for their survival.

Just because it's necessary, doesn't shift the action into a moral dead zone. It's still wrong.

In that situation I'd do exactly the same to survive. Hell, I'd probably be worse, I doubt I'd go as peacefully at the end of the Redcliffe/Sacred ashes as Jowen does, but I'd never consider what I was doing justified.

Modifié par Amitar, 26 février 2011 - 01:25 .

[RainbowPenguin]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

RainbowPenguin wrote...
It hasn't been said yet.
Isabella from DA:O was fine with having a threesome with females only. Who's to say that Isabella wouldn't want to get into  Female Hawke's pants?

She's saying exactly that. She made an entire thread griping about how ugly Isabela was.
/Shrug. Haters gonna hate I guess.

Hahaha, so true.
But in the demo Isabella offered both Male and Female Hawke to join her in her room at the Hanged Man. 

Yea but Isabella is not cute ... =) and I'm the hater thats gonna hate even if Isabella is rollin  

Were her boobs too much? Or was it her ass?

Actually she is too much everything ... too much boobs, too much ass, too much that neck thing, too much chubby face, too much "easy" and I believe too much other things I will discover during actuall game ...

I think that the demo isn't a good demonstration for character appearances. 

Yea, maybe its her gypsy look ... they are not popular in my country

Oh... yeah, I can understand that. My father despises gypsies and the nonsense they spew out at people. 

What I want to see is a barbarian girl in Dragon Age. From Orlais or Antiva or something.

[LilyasAvalon]

wulfsturm wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Sebastian has already been confirmed by his writers to have quite a few flirt lines and they've neither denied or confirmed he is an LI. They're jsut telling us to wait and see. Bloody torturers. T_T

...besides, if Sebastian isn't a romanable by the time he comes out, he will be by the end of the first week, fangirls are probably making their Varric/Carver/Sebastian mods as we speak.

Aveline has quite a few flrit lines as well, and she's confirmed not to be an LI.

Just saying.

That's confirmation though because there are only 4 'original' LI's, all of which have been named. Sebastian has had no denial nor confirmation that he is an LI, plus, he's a DLC, so he won't technically count as original.