41 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaewaros]

On this forum we have read a lot about the good gualities of BG. So is the game perfect in every way? Do you have no complaints at all about this game? Is there some aspects in the game that downright irritate you? Did ToTSC or BG2 fix/change these irritating aspects?

I find it irritation that in the city of Baldur's Gate you cannot access certain parts of the city if you don't approach them from the right angle. This applies at least to the northeastern corner of the city - if you approach it from the south, you go to a different area than if you approach it from the west. I must have tore half of my hair off while trying to figure this out. It also makes certain quest related areas really hard to find - like the Splurging Sturgeon Inn. To me this twist in the city's structure is just unnecessary and unrealistic - I mean how does it make sense that people who live in the city have do deal with this on a daily basis?

Well, I still love the game.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

You must gather your party before venturing forth..



It's rough when an off screen kobold scores a critical on your level 1 mage PC.



"Then I kicked him in the head til he was dead!"



Arrow stacks cap of 20 (raised to 40 in SOA)



The game loved to aggressively spawn gnolls.



And that's all I've got, I originally had the 5 disc version and didn't even mind the frequent disc swaps. The game had very little wrong with it, it's far and away my favourite game of all time.

[Kide]

Well, for some reason even if it not realistic I really would always want to gather my party together as quickly as possibly, even though I know I should not think it like that. And all of the charachters are in completly different side of the map and you even can't get to the Baldurs gate for a long time. So I always just find it a little irritating to try and assemble my group together as I want it to and get them all to be approximatly at the same level of experience, I just really enjoy to gather my party like that. In a way this is fixed in baldurs gate 2 because I can get all my charachters I want in the first half of the game how I see it (before going to the ship and sailing to rescue Imoen), the only exception beeing Imoen of course.



I also find the city structure in the first one a little annoying because of you need to go to the area from the certan direction, and there are no map markers. It is of course realistic again, but it just would makes everything a lot harder.



The one very annoying thing for me though in the charachter creation has always being the fact, that you can choose a potrait for your own charachter which is already used by one of games NPC charachters. In my very first playthrough in baldurs gate 2 I chose a potrait for my self that I soon discovered was already used by Aerie, and you know what...? That stole me my pleasure of playing the charachter, and I created a new one instead continuing the first charachter.



Both of them are one of my favorite games still, but of course there are a few annoying things in them as well, but only very little.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

1) "Sorry, I know you're in a tight spot and all (in a prison, surrounded by monsters and unarmed) but I can't take you with me.... because I already have 5 companions. You know." (stupid arbitrary limit- I want to be able to have 15 characters in my group if the game calls for it!)

2) DnD system (taking 5 two-handed-sword hits to the unprotected head that would kill normal men and still barely wounded - and don't tell me "barely dodged" - it was during a Time Stop!). also: "You are a mage. Don't even try to understand how something as complicated as a lock works; you need a thief for that sort of thing." - "You'll never be able to hit me, I have the heaviest armor in the realms!" (and many other reasons)

3) 8 hours rest for spells required (no, a mage does not spend 8 hours memorizing the specifics - otherwise he'd be tired at the end of the night, nor does he require the time to replenish his energy, otherwise a long walk would serve the same purpose)

4) "level-appropiate surroundings" isn't as bad as in other games, but it still exists. "Yeah, our mine got overrun with kobolds and we're unable to do anything about it. You there, you look like a completely unexperienced level 1 dude. Why don't you do it? And by the way, we're going to wage war against a country full of level 9s and up." (yeah, I know, if everybody was the same level then the beginning would be impossible and the end would be ridiculously easy)

5) "Meet the veteran, 60 years old, level 7. He can kill an unnamed mook all by himself." - "Meet the veteran, 60 years and 3 months old, level 34. He can singlehandedly deal with dragons or greater demons, and call angels to fight by his side."

6) "I heard you had an unknown slave killed in a drow city while disguised as a drow through really powerful illusion magics... I'm not going to sell you anything. In fact, I think I'm going to call the guards." (Stupid gossipers!)

7) no option to knock on doors or peek through a slit instead of just barging in

That's it for now.

[HolyAvenger]

Till they got introduced, lack of gem bags/bags of holding/potion cases.

[Shaewaros]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

1) "Sorry, I know you're in a tight spot and all (in a prison, surrounded by monsters and unarmed) but I can't take you with me.... because I already have 5 companions. You know." (stupid arbitrary limit- I want to be able to have 15 characters in my group if the game calls for it!)
2) DnD system (taking 5 two-handed-sword hits to the unprotected head that would kill normal men and still barely wounded - and don't tell me "barely dodged" - it was during a Time Stop!). also: "You are a mage. Don't even try to understand how something as complicated as a lock works; you need a thief for that sort of thing." - "You'll never be able to hit me, I have the heaviest armor in the realms!" (and many other reasons)
3) 8 hours rest for spells required (no, a mage does not spend 8 hours memorizing the specifics - otherwise he'd be tired at the end of the night, nor does he require the time to replenish his energy, otherwise a long walk would serve the same purpose)
4) "level-appropiate surroundings" isn't as bad as in other games, but it still exists. "Yeah, our mine got overrun with kobolds and we're unable to do anything about it. You there, you look like a completely unexperienced level 1 dude. Why don't you do it? And by the way, we're going to wage war against a country full of level 9s and up." (yeah, I know, if everybody was the same level then the beginning would be impossible and the end would be ridiculously easy)
5) "Meet the veteran, 60 years old, level 7. He can kill an unnamed mook all by himself." - "Meet the veteran, 60 years and 3 months old, level 34. He can singlehandedly deal with dragons or greater demons, and call angels to fight by his side."
6) "I heard you had an unknown slave killed in a drow city while disguised as a drow through really powerful illusion magics... I'm not going to sell you anything. In fact, I think I'm going to call the guards." (Stupid gossipers!)
7) no option to knock on doors or peek through a slit instead of just barging in
That's it for now.

These are all very good points, however I think they are present in most PC and console rpgs (excluding maybe number 1). As a matter of fact I don't remember one rpg where a 30 level character would die from a single strike to the head. I completely agree that this makes rpgs seriously unrealistic but that's just how most rpgs have been built. The fact that only thiefs can pick locks is also rediculous, I guess this has been done in a more realistic manner in 3rd edition rules. I actually like the rule that spellcasters have to sleep before they can cast spells again, this makes Inns at least somewhat useful in the game. Overall these issues with rules and realism have never bothered me more than slightly but I can definitely understand why someone is bothered by them.

Modifié par Shaewaros, 26 février 2011 - 04:01 .

[Bhryaen]

TripedWire wrote...
"Then I kicked him in the head til he was dead!"

Hey, I like that one...

The thing is, when I criticize BG, it always feels like I'm putting out a call for someone to mod something whereas when I criticize other games, it feels like I'm pretty much advocating not playing them...

Issues:
1. Arbitrary auto-teleports... Gah, mustn't list them because this was posted in the No Spoilers sections... but anyway, the "madman" one for sure, and particularly the "city-to-library" one, are very irritating and make absolutely no sense. Why would the party not be simply asked to go, and, when they get around to it, they do?

2. Arrow traps that can hit you (and continue firing and auto-hitting ruthlessly round after round) despite having run out of the room, closed the door, run around a corner, down a hall, around another corner, and into another room, and then closed that door as well... If the complaint can be filed that there are ways in BG that simply insta-kill you, that is the one example I'll concede... Oh, and also...

3. The second example would be absurdly mixed travel spawns. Two wyverns is very tough... and two giant spiders (tweaked by SCS) are very tough... but both together? Zoologist: "Yes, the wyvern tends to cooperate with the giant spider on a regular basis during hunting because when they both descend on a party that is only enough of a feast for one... well, we haven't figured that one out yet..." And ogres often make pets of ankhegs- says in the Monstrous Manual... These often game-killing encounters- although just as often avoidable with magic- have no bearing on the story, so to die in them due to how overbearing they can be always feels a bit... cheated... [EDIT: Mind you, I'm not referring to the travel spawns that you can actually run away from. I mean the type that surround you in such a way that at least one of your characters is probably going to be attacked at least a few times before you can navigate your party out of there. One can always use invisibility, Speed potions, etc.... if one has access somehow... but the times I truly must flee for my life are when I have no access...]

4. The constriction to one viewpoint that cannot zoom or turn has always been a sore point for me, but you know that to design a world that can zoom and spin and allow for looking into the sky, you must sacrifice all that graphic art that BG is famous for... so...

5. The need to remove black blotches that cover the land. This was better handled by NWN that removes the "black" areas to the map but leaves your visible area as the only viewable area. It does help to be able to pan way beyond one's view and hear a hobgoblin grunt to let you know he's there, but... not needed...

6. The "reputation"/ morality system needs a proper revamp. This was addressed in another thread, and apparently the mod "Virtue" attempted to provide this for BG2, but I believe this is still an area open for improvement...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 01 mars 2011 - 08:30 .

[Son of Imoen]

Some very interesting characters you can take with you are hidden deep in the later chapters of BG1. By the time I get to the city, I'm too attached to the thief I'm already working with to recruit Skie. One of the most usefull NPC tweaks (either in the BG1 NPC-project or SCS) is being able to recruit Alora, Quayle and some others in the beginning of the game.

The same holds true for items: how I'd love to have a returning throwing axe earlier in the game. By the time you find it, the axe-wielding-fighter-with-too-limited-strength-to-carry-large-amounts-of-throwing-axes will have a girdle of strength and you can put the throwing axes into the bag of holding anyway.

The limited choice of good lead characters for your party - Ajantis is the only one that is both being able to take a hit AND have good CHA (Kagain and Shar-Teel: not), INT (for roleplay reasons, Minsc: not) and personality (again, for roleplay reasons, Khalid: not). Jaheira will do, but I like a pure fighter up front, not someone who has to cast spells as well.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 26 février 2011 - 04:38 .

[Bhryaen]

Thinking of more as I go along...
 7. The weapon slot system... NWN did this better also, allowing you to stack sword + shield in one slot, two-handed ranged weapons in another slot, dual weapon in another, or just a single weapon for switching in the main hand. Plus NWN lets you switch rings, etc., from quickslots too. However, it's more realistic the BG way, forcing you to adjust your inventory to switch back and forth... [EDIT: The worst manifestation of the BG weapon slot issue is with Fighter/Mage/Thief where you only have one single slot for a weapon and must go into inventory to switch weapons regardless]

8. Some of the BG1 portraits that make the NPCs look like clowns- namely Coran, Xzar, Shar-Teel (whose portraits I override with my own). [EDIT: Oh, yeah, and Viconia's for which I use a mod to switch with the BG2 portrait.] Other BG1 portraits are exceptional- like Quayle, Montaran, Kivan, Xan, Edwin, Skie, and especially Eldoth. The BG2 portraits make everyone "prettier" and more cartoonish with lots of pastels, so they're not as bad as the bad BG1 portraits, but they're not as good as the good BG1 portraits...

9. The lack of voicesets for starting a character. Only 4 to choose from in BG1?? I always did #3 until I started downloading them (and now started editing my own). "Hehe, yeah."

Modifié par Bhryaen, 01 mars 2011 - 08:23 .

[Crippled Jack]

Letting aside the gameworld inconsistencies(Humanoid_Taifun mentioned a couple), from a gameplay point of view I guess my biggest issue would probably be the multiple dialogue choices that end up having the same consequence.

Edit: oh, the eternal annoying inventory mini-game and the ridiculously small amount of stacks. 20 arrows only?! Preposterous! 

Modifié par Crippled Jack, 26 février 2011 - 08:50 .

[The Cow King]

- Random city exploring, I have some kind of syndrome that I have to search every house, which makes areas like beregost painful to explore.

6. The "reputation"/ morality system
needs a proper revamp. This was addressed in another thread, and
apparently the mod "Virtue" attempted to provide this for BG2, but I
believe this is still an area open for improvement...

I actually like the reputation system in BG series. I think it's absolutely hilarious/evil that a person who's slaughtered an entire town like beregost can go to a temple and donate 1000 gp to become a good law adibing citizen in the eyes of other people. It's not like money is an issue either.

The only things I don't like about it is that waltzing around with reputation 1 the store prices get absolutely insane, and how rangers loose their powers if they fall below a certain rep.

Modifié par The Cow King, 26 février 2011 - 11:15 .

[Sparky The Barbarian]

The arrow stacking really got me in an unmodded game. I got three quarters of the way to the Cloakwood mine and had to go all the way back to FAI to get more arrows.

The other thing was trying to handle a party of six in a maze. I tried to move the party five feet and I had characters taking off in every direction, tripping traps and running into endlessly spawning Kobolds.

[Pangaea]

The mazes annoyed me something unreal. I was literally screaming at the monitor many times because people were running off in unwanted directions or just going back.

Also hated how long it took for a thief to discover traps. Inching forward one step at a time, then waiting 5 seconds, ad inf, is NOT fun. Couple that with people flying off in crazy paths and I was reaching for the Quit button.

Only 20 arrows was annoying too, as it meant I had to fiddle about with inventories a lot. 40 helps a bit, but it should have been 100 really. As long as weight is taken into account, why limit the stacks to such a degree?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Taking weight into account, you'd have to give them a minimum weight of 1, which'd mean that with 60 arrows Imoen would get an additional weight on her shoulders of 60. Have fun balancing this with the rest of her equipment.

Of course, this is also a DnD problem. In real life, one arrow could easily kill an opponent, so if you had 20 with you, that was plenty (and after the fight you could just make new arrows and reuse the points from the old ones).
I remember playing an archer in a PnP game adding a super quiver to one of our pack horses for 150 arrows. (my DM gave me his funny look, but he accepted it)

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 28 février 2011 - 02:21 .

[Morbidest]

It's tough to answer in a no-spoiler forum, but
1-both Totsc and ToB are pretty much linear long series of battles and not on the level of BG and SoA
2-any active romance from SoA gets little further development in ToB, even though the attitude of the PC towards either, say, Jaheira or Viconia should have a major impact on the choice he makes at the end of ToB.  

[HoonDing]

Pathfinding. It's why I don't even bother going into Ulcaster & Gullykin catacombs anymore.

Modifié par virumor, 28 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[Snowbug]

1. The rule-set. Most of all the race based class restrictions. Why can't elves be bards, huh?

2. Weapon slots, as Bhryaen already mentioned.

3. Anomen.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Kobold Commandos with their low THAC0.
That dungeon that spawned those commandos and they kept chasing your party from all sides.

The thief multiclass weapon slot number.

[Emzamination]

The real life timer on each romance dialogue trigger which had me taking naps in between dialogue in rl as a kid.

The fact that paladins lost all their powers once you stopped being a goodie goodie and had no way to get them back even if alignment was improved.

A certain mini mission plot twist trigger that only happened once a game and if you didn't get it the first time no matter how many times you reloaded a prev save on that profile you couldn't get a duplicate performance which was bad if your not evil.

The fact there was literally no way to my knowledge to get rid of those police bastards (forgot the name) that kept trying to kill you if you committed a crime aside from reloading a prev saved game.

No lesser race classes like drow

Aerie and anomen

[Seagloom]

Irritations in the original Baldur's Gate eh?

- Minsc

- The 2e D&D system limiting weapons on clerics. This is the Forgotten Realms darn it. I want to wield weapons other than hammers, maces, and flails!

- The pop culture references. There were too many quotes shoved into the game. A few gags are okay, but damaging immersion is a no-no.

- Those rare instances of modern slang. The one I remember most is when Charname calls Chase a tool.

- Charname constantly referring to the party. The constant use of "we" was annoying. She rarely spoke for herself.

- Terribly underpowered druids

- Low maximum ammunition stacks

- How clunky it was to switch from weapon and shield to a two-handed ranged weapon such as a bow.

Modifié par Seagloom, 03 mars 2011 - 04:14 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Speaking of shields and bows, for some years now I have actually been anticipating 2 mod changes:
1) a one armed crossbow. (there is no need for a second hand when using a crossbow that either reloads automatically or doesn't require any ammunition)
2) crossbows and bows to actually reduce the user's APR. Sure you can fire 1 shot every six seconds with a bow. If you are strong and experienced you might even reduce the time further, but 5 shots in 3 seconds? Really? And even with crossbows? The things where you need a winder to pull the string back into shooting position?
@Emza: What mini mission are you talking about?

[Flamedance]

The things that have been mentioned by others, mostly:

- horrible pathfinding, especially in dungeons.
- classes don't need to be perfectly balanced. Some classes have to be more challenging than others, but the treatment druids got was really ridiculous.
- another class issue: the badly overpowered sorcerers
- the annoying ambushes between areas in BG1. Thank God for Control+Y....

[The Cow King]

- another class issue: the badly overpowered sorcerers

Wild Mage is no doubt the most powerful class in the game after you get wish and chain contigency.

Infinite spells combined with permanent improved alacrity. Even their simmys can cast L9 spells, unlike sorcerers.

[Son of Imoen]

Flamedance wrote...
- the annoying ambushes between areas in BG1. Thank God for Control+Y....

Even more horrible in modded BG1 though, with the enhanced World Map installed in a mega-mod-installation (BWP or hand-picked) you can run into wyverns or ettercaps when journeying south to Nashkel from Beregost in chapter 1.

[Gorthaur X]

The alignment and reputation system. Individually, there's nothing wrong with either the concept of character alignment or reputation, but they way the two were jumbled together in BG never sat right with me. Maybe Korgan or Shar-Teel couldn't stand being around a heroic party and might even prefer the sort of reputation where you have to slaughter a bunch of law enforcement officers every time you enter a town. But Edwin, Viconia or Kagain wanting to be constantly hounded everywhere they go? Nuh-uh.