85 réponses à ce sujet

[Aklis]

I was playing the demo earlier, deciding to try out a SnS-warrior tank. Mousing over the different stats, I saw that it's no longer Dexterity that increases defense, but Cunning. So, Cunning has taken Dexterity's place as a tank stat? How does that make sense?

[Count Viceroy]

Knowing where the attack is coming from, and preparing accordingly. Taking a hit where it does the least amount of damage.



Dexterity is just avoiding a hit. That's hard to do in full plate.

[Schizowriter]

Cunning = smart use of shield and/or reading people's movements for incoming attacks?

[Xewaka]

Aklis wrote...
I was playing the demo earlier, deciding to try out a SnS-warrior tank. Mousing over the different stats, I saw that it's no longer Dexterity that increases defense, but Cunning. So, Cunning has taken Dexterity's place as a tank stat? How does that make sense?

You're clever enough to anticipate attacks and evade them.

[Covi]

Being dexterous in heavy plate armor doesn't make much more sense.

[Purgatious]

Covi wrote...

Being dexterous in heavy plate armor doesn't make much more sense.

Its a blatant oxymoron infact.

[Vhaius]

It takes cunning to interpret a foes body language and parry/block/dodge, in time.

[Siven80]

Defesne wasn't "all that" for a tank in DAO either tbh. Didn't need more than 26 dex, armor was the key stat.

[Maconbar]

Cunning implies a level of battle awareness in this case.

[Inzhuna]

I agree that Cunning makes more sense than Dexterity. But I wish there was a proper attribute for tanks, for example, Fortitude.

[Xewaka]

Inzhuna wrote...
I agree that Cunning makes more sense than Dexterity. But I wish there was a proper attribute for tanks, for example, Fortitude.

You mean Strenght which gives you resistance against knockdown effects? Or Constitution which increases you hit point pool, effective increasing your damage soaking capability?

[SoleSong]

High dex is only usable for tiews fideling with locks and doctors fideling with needle and treads in a blood soaked area :-)

[Sydelle]

I think Cunning plays a better role for a warrior knowing where the attack is gonna come from and being ready for it. It'd make more sense that a rogue have more dexterity simply because they should be able to avoid attacks quicker. Warriors should absorb attacks and fight accordingly.

[Xewaka]

Sydelle wrote...
Warriors should absorb attacks and fight accordingly.

Despite what MMOs tell you, getting hit is never a winning strategy. I always support evasion tanks over soaking tanks as a more sensible concept.

[Wulfram]

Siven80 wrote...

Defesne wasn't "all that" for a tank in DAO either tbh. Didn't need more than 26 dex, armor was the key stat.

Really high defence is extremely powerful, but you need to commit to it.  Just a little bit of defence is no better than none at all.

[Arttis]

If your are smart AND capable.

The world is yours for the taking.

Cunning is general intelligence for this game.

I suppose this makes mages somewhat dumb now?They do not need cunning....

[Arttis]

Wulfram wrote...

Siven80 wrote...

Defesne wasn't "all that" for a tank in DAO either tbh. Didn't need more than 26 dex, armor was the key stat.

Really high defence is extremely powerful, but you need to commit to it.  Just a little bit of defence is no better than none at all.

talents and equipment that imparts dodge/defense made up for it.
dex was just the req.

[SoleSong]

Well, you all know that in the times with great armies equipped with a sword or an advanced pitchfork there was no need for much cunning :-)

Modifié par SoleSong, 26 février 2011 - 01:37 .

[Adhin]

Yeah for 'Tanks' there's 3 things to deal with. Str is your Fortitude which is a direct, 1 to 1 ratio for removing 'force' thats imparted to you. Force in general equals how much damage your taking (both physical and elemental). Second part of that is your maxHP. If you take Force greater then 10% of your MaxHP then you get knocked back. The higher force exceeds that mark, the further back you go and at a point you'll get knocked down as well.

And then as been stated by OP, Cunning is your Defense rating which is a direct chance you wont be hit. Now players don't 'miss' (in most situations) a 'miss' is translated into a 'glancing blow' which is basically partial damage. About 3/4th in Casual down to 1/10th in NM. Not sure if monsters get glancing blows vs the player but im sure bosses probably do. Anyways here's the basic Force formula.

((DMG * ForceMultiplier) - Fortitude) > MaxHP * 0.1

If you look at skills, that force multiplier is where it say, for instnace on Mighty Blow Force: x2. If you where to do say 40 dmg with that ability, your force would end up being 80. And if a monster has 100 hp... well hes gonna be flying waaay back.

Peter's stated though that no monster uses player abilities at all. Which I take to mean, they either have all unique skills or if they have an ability that 'looks' like a players, its working off a different rule set/balance then what players are subject too. So basing what monsters do based off player skill isn't the best way to think about it, in general monsters will probably do less damage, but have more HP then the player.

Think that's a general RPG rule of thumb at this point though.

-edit-
Oh another point is that all healing (Potions, Heal spells, so forth) is %based. I think even regeneration is %based. So higher HP totals ultimately means better heals on you. But that aside, for the purpose of resisting force. theres a 1:2 ratio with Str vs Con. 1 point of str is worth 2 points of STR as far as resisting incoming force.

You still want Con for higher HP due to the healing benefit and longer lasting in a fight. Also keep in mind its damage taken not initial damage. So Armor and Damage Resistance (2 different stats, both do the same thing) factor in before hand lowering incoming damage by a percent.

Peter Thomas example of having Aveline tank was that he had nearly equal str, cun, and con for her. Not exact but close to it and that was working out well.

Modifié par Adhin, 26 février 2011 - 02:02 .

[Arttis]

SoleSong wrote...

Well, you all know that in the times with great armies equipped with a sword or an advanced pitchfork there was no need for much cunning :-)

a new weapon can make all the difference.
Like going from bolt action to fully automatic or semi automatic.

[PsychoWARD23]

I'm just going to put a lot of points in to constitution.

[Adhin]

Same here PsychoWARD23. My current warrior is gonna be a 2H, Berserker/Reaver with probably a 1:2 spread in str/con. Mostly Con for as high of a HP pool as I can get while still having the str to equip the heaviest armor I can find. When an 80% heal goes off on me I want it to have a huge impact. Plus anytime I make a Warrior/Fighter like this I go huge con, its an RP thing for me.

[Count Viceroy]

Enjoy getting your entire hp pool smashed to bits in seconds because you lack defense. heals and pots have epic cooldowns now.

[Amioran]

Aklis wrote...

I was playing the demo earlier, deciding to try out a SnS-warrior tank. Mousing over the different stats, I saw that it's no longer Dexterity that increases defense, but Cunning. So, Cunning has taken Dexterity's place as a tank stat? How does that make sense?

It's different than before. If you notice well when you increase level the returns of investing on cunning (for what it concerns defense) are diminished and you will have to continue putting points on it to have some valuable benefits.

For example if you invest only 1 point in cunning at level 1 you will obtain 32% (or something like that) of defense, a lot. However if you put another point only at level 2 the defense will lower to 25%. If now you get 5 levels and you put no more points on cunning the defense will lower to a measly 2-3%.

So, you will have to invest heavily on cunning to have good results and either way the more you advance on levels the more the returns on investing on it will dimish. Naturally it's a very good attribute to increase but you have to consider that for a mage, for example, investing in cunning heavily can have repercussion on spells' damage.

Either for a rogue it has much less power than before, for the aforementioned motives and also because cunning doesn't increases damage and to hit chance. In DAO dexterity for a rogue did all of that plus adding defnese in one stat and the increases on defense was progressive instead of based on a percentual depending on the attribute vs. level.

[Siven80]

Dont forget the new damage resistance stat, along with armor will reduce incoming damage considerably.



I found the best tanks in DAO were equal dex and con (i went 26 for both rest in Str) and it looks like a balanced defense/hp build is the best to head for onDA2 also due to the above reasons.