262 réponses à ce sujet

[gilgalad80]

LoK-y-Yo wrote...

Grow up. When people says realism in a fantasy game is not that no magic-no potions-no fantastic creatures. There is no one more blind than that who doesn't want to see. What they say with realism is coherence.

Weapons size acording with how tall are the people and their musculature. Not daggers which look like long swords, long swords that looks like two handed swords and two handed swords which looks like...I don't know, those weapons looks taller than a person.

I agree that the combat pace in DAO was a little slow. Now is the opposite, sometimes they look like supersayans teletransporting and slicing with a sword nearly as tall as them like if they were made of paper. Is there any average point between the two? that would be "realism".
I'm pretty sure you understand that when you have read it.

Exacty.   "Realism" refers to the over-the-top combat animations and moves (giant leaps and teleporting toward enemies).  Better responsiveness is good, but IMO combat would be more satisfying toned down a bit.  Anyway we'll see the overall result in the final release..

Modifié par gilgalad80, 26 février 2011 - 07:57 .

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

May is ask who's Aermas ? Looks like a cool(?) dude(girl?).

Aermas is a BSN user who is relatively well known for advocating (his own particular brand of) realism.  Haven't seen him 'round much recently, though.

Yeah, looks like realism real life caught up with him.

[Lotion Soronarr]

simfamSP wrote...

I'm sorry but it appears that people have gone back in time, watched every major 16th century battle and have become experts in medieval combat.

Seriously. Since when does any Western RPG give us 'real' combat. DA:O was no different. There is no such thing as 'realistic' combat in any game.

I think people get the picture that swords weighed 50kg and it took 10 seconds to swing one. Or that every battle was an amazing duel to the death. Fantasy is fantasy, there are certain realistic aspects to Western RPGs, but you cannot bash DA2 for having 'non realistic' combat then praise DA:O for it's 'realistic' combat. Both have their pros and cons. DA:O didn't go over the top, DA2 does. But to judge a game for one single flaw? Why do I still play Morrowind? Or Gothic 3? Because they are good games.

Combat is as relevant to an RPG for me as Graphics, they score pretty low. Look at Planescape: Torment, how many people can say it had the best combat ever made? Not many. But how many people can say, it had the best writing in an RPG ever? Quite a few.

I'm sure DA2 will be a good game, but please, if your going to whine about anything, don't let it be about 'realism'.

Tsk...extremist views are fun.

Devil is in the details. While you will enver have perfect realism in games, there are DEGREES. Da:O combat FELT more real than DA2 one. Of course, you can always make thing more or less fun/good looking/real looking .. this is not the issue.

But that saying that complaining about realism is stupid..now THAT is stupid.

LOTR movies flet more real than Dungeons and Dragons.
Some WW2 movies feel more real than others. This is pretty much the same for everything.

The level or realism - the required Supension of Disbelief - is not the same.

[TMZuk]

This thread has been up before, but, to adress the OP's statement:

I agree that realism is a silly term in a game with dragons, magic and darkspawn. It's not about realism, it's about suspension of disbelief!

In other words, to create something believable. DA:O was already tethering on the edge for me. Some of the high-level abilities were outright ridiculous and overpowered IMO. Here it's even worse. The demo attempt to present a bunch of fugitives fleeing Lotheringen, while at the same time they scythe their way through wave after wave of darkspawn, using all manners of unbelievable abilities - teleporting, slamming a swordpoint into the ground , etc, etc.- moving at rocket speed with no regard to momentum or physics.

It is for me impossible to relate to. Add on top the simplified classes, the absurd weapon-restrictions, the inability to scout, to take higher ground, to do anything at all except having your warrior(s) charge in, and everyone else do their thing.

Worst of all: There is no non-combat skills at all. No speech, no perception, no craft-skills, no jump, climb etc, etc. It's all about combat, combat and more combat. How anyone can consider DA2 an RPG is beyond me.

In short, in this game it is impossible for me to suspend my disbelief.

Modifié par TMZuk, 27 février 2011 - 02:40 .

[Afabrae]

LoK-y-Yo wrote...

Grow up. When people says realism in a fantasy game is not that no magic-no potions-no fantastic creatures. There is no one more blind than that who doesn't want to see. What they say with realism is coherence.

Weapons size acording with how tall are the people and their musculature. Not daggers which look like long swords, long swords that looks like two handed swords and two handed swords which looks like...I don't know, those weapons looks taller than a person.

I agree that the combat pace in DAO was a little slow. Now is the opposite, sometimes they look like supersayans teletransporting and slicing with a sword nearly as tall as them like if they were made of paper. Is there any average point between the two? that would be "realism".
I'm pretty sure you understand that when you have read it.

People will see the pros and cons of buying the game. If pros are greater than cons, they will buy it. That doesn't mean that if they think something is wrong they have to be quiet. They are consumers and therefore, they can complain, make constructive suggestions and all of that.
Also, they should say the good points and congrat about those.

There are real-swords taller than persons 

And It's one thing to have powerful magic another is four persons fighting a High-dragon or the Archdemon!

Modifié par Afabrae, 27 février 2011 - 02:46 .

[LoK-y-Yo]

yes, there are swords taller than a person and they usually need a 90-100 kg, at least 1'80 person to be able to have some use to it. Well, in the long history of fantasy, there has been quite the 4-5 person killing a dragon (even just one person!!).

I can accept some "killing movements" to by supernatural. Hit the ground with your weapon and make everybody shake. But there can be a little coherence, can't it?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Realism? It's not a Microsoft Blight Simulator. Still, graphics are important to me. Combat that looks over the top does not impress me. A good story in a believable world is important. And great game mechanics are important too. It also depends on the release date of the game: I won't judge an older game by today's standards. So, there may be some points that differ from the OP's PoV, but that's how it goes.

[DanteGunZ]

I remember when people were complaining about realism in Fallout New Vegas, there was a guy who literally wanted to be able to go to bathroom, or rather, have to be given notices of bathroom breaks in the Hardcore Mode. (Where you needed to stay hydrated, eat food, etc. I wonder about some people, honestly if you make things to centered in reality it isn't fun.) /facepalm

I can imagine that little pop-up if you did have an "accident" in your pants:
"You have crapped your pants. the overwhelmingly foul odor has brought your Speech skill down by -25, also the weird walk your doing brings Agility down by -3."

[Ziggeh]

simfamSP wrote...

REALISM IN FANTASY GAMES IS STUPID. THERE IS NO SUCH THING!

Not true.

It's just not inherently positive, as many suggest. It's essentially a stylistic choice, which people may like or dislike.

[LilyasAvalon]

Haasth wrote...

REALISM? THIS. IS. DRAGON AGE!

Honestly though, when people complain about "Realism" in a game like this they likely just ran out of arguments. 

God, definately agreeing. xD

THey're just beating a dead horse now.

[dragon_83]

LoK-y-Yo wrote...

Grow up. When people says realism in a fantasy game is not that no magic-no potions-no fantastic creatures. There is no one more blind than that who doesn't want to see. What they say with realism is coherence.

Weapons size acording with how tall are the people and their musculature. Not daggers which look like long swords, long swords that looks like two handed swords and two handed swords which looks like...I don't know, those weapons looks taller than a person.

I agree that the combat pace in DAO was a little slow. Now is the opposite, sometimes they look like supersayans teletransporting and slicing with a sword nearly as tall as them like if they were made of paper. Is there any average point between the two? that would be "realism".
I'm pretty sure you understand that when you have read it.

How dare you understand what people mean when they are complaining about the lack of "realism"?
You should praise the game and applaud loudly whatever ninja moves are there in a mediaval fantasy game. The two handed swords have as long hilt as a man's arm, so what? This is a fantasy game! People making backflips with armor on them, so what? This is a fantasy game. A warrior in heavy armor jumps several meters high to attack the ogre, so what? This is a fantasy game. The warrior chick pushes a dagger through plate mail armor without any effort, then not leaving even a small blood stain, so what! This. Is. A. Fantasy. Game.

I want myself a Hawke which has 3 arms! After all it is just a fantasy game.

Modifié par dragon_83, 27 février 2011 - 03:29 .

[Haasth]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Haasth wrote...

REALISM? THIS. IS. DRAGON AGE!

Honestly though, when people complain about "Realism" in a game like this they likely just ran out of arguments. 

God, definately agreeing. xD

THey're just beating a dead horse now.

I suppose there wouldn't be a whole lot to do on these forums if people weren't beating a dead horse all the time... 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ghehe. dragon_83 has a point.

[slimgrin]

TMZuk wrote...

This thread has been up before, but, to adress the OP's statement:

I agree that realism is a silly term in a game with dragons, magic and darkspawn. It's not about realism, it's about suspension of disbelief!

In other words, to create something believable.

^This. Of course the combat isn't real, but it can be exaggerated to the point some people simply don't take it seriously.

[Maconbar]

TMZuk wrote...

This thread has been up before, but, to adress the OP's statement:

I agree that realism is a silly term in a game with dragons, magic and darkspawn. It's not about realism, it's about suspension of disbelief!

In other words, to create something believable. DA:O was already tethering on the edge for me. Some of the high-level abilities were outright ridiculous and overpowered IMO. Here it's even worse. The demo attempt to present a bunch of fugitives fleeing Lotheringen, while at the same time they scythe their way through wave after wave of darkspawn, using all manners of unbelievable abilities - teleporting, slamming a swordpoint into the ground , etc, etc.- moving at rocket speed with no regard to momentum or physics.

It is for me impossible to relate to. Add on top the simplified classes, the absurd weapon-restrictions, the inability to scout, to take higher ground, to do anything at all except having your warrior(s) charge in, and everyone else do their thing.

Worst of all: There is no non-combat skills at all. No speech, no perception, no craft-skills, no jump, climb etc, etc. It's all about combat, combat and more combat. How anyone can consider DA2 an RPG is beyond me.

In short, in this game it is impossible for me to suspend my disbelief.

I totally understand your point about suspension of disbelief but it seems odd to complain about it during the Framed Narrative parts, which are supposed to be intentionally unbelievable.

[LilyasAvalon]

I think the games have to have a certain LEVEL of realism. Like, for instance, you can't shoot lazer beams out of your eyes, your character can't suddenly pull out a Mass Effect shot gun if it's a Fantasy game (Unless it's pretty much a cross bow machine gun, like Bianca) and etc.

But I REALLY don't get what people are complaining about is unrealistic.

I don't get how people are saying it's unrealistic how 2H warriors wield their weapons now. Have any of these people actually HANDLED an axe or a broadsword? YES, that thing can be heavy but after you get used to using it, you build up so much upper body strength you CAN pretty much whip it around like a stick. It only takes like, a minute to actually strike a hit like in Origins if you simply didn't have the training for it.

What is unrealistic about mages having enough brains to stab something with the pointy end of their staff-sword if they get too close? I thought it was common sense.

[Haasth]

Fun fact: 2 handed swords were at most around 3 KG (Which is what? 6-7 pounds?). They weren't THAT heavy. They were better off using their fists otherwise. Fun fact: Aveline uses her fists in a cinematic.

Modifié par Haasth, 27 février 2011 - 03:36 .

[pezit]

A fantasy game is by definition unrealistic, but even if it's unrealistic you still want it to be believable and i think that's where many think it fails. For me personally DA2 is nothing extraordinary i mean i watch anime that is way more over the top, the problem is that this is the second installment and the first game was nothing like it, I already have a vision of how the world works.

[atheelogos]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Haasth wrote...

REALISM? THIS. IS. DRAGON AGE!

Honestly though, when people complain about "Realism" in a game like this they likely just ran out of arguments. 

God, definately agreeing. xD

THey're just beating a dead horse now.

this

[Pcrews]

Were the f*ck did the realism go? these people swing swords like they have no weight and everyone is a kung fu expert.

They do cast spells realistically though. When I shoot fireballs from my staff/spear thingy it looks almost identical.

[Black-Xero]

dragon_83 wrote...

The warrior chick pushes a dagger through plate mail armor without any effort, then not leaving even a small blood stain, so what! This. Is. A. Fantasy. Game.

They had that in Origins and much more which makes it "unrealistic" based off of what would really happen.

[Ziggeh]

Pcrews wrote...

They do cast spells realistically though.

Yeah, I was cooking lunch this afternoon by launching fireballs at a chicken, and it looked exactly like this.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

To complain about realism does nto make any sense. To control elements out of nothing merely with the power of your mind is not possible in our world. I cannot call down meteors or make someone explode with my mind and i do not know anyone that can. For that to be possible in the dragon age universe the makers chose to have their world live by its own rules. For people to complain that being a "ninja" is any less realistic than the magic abilities one can employ in the game is ridiculous.