262 réponses à ce sujet

[stlwtng4Dmdrxip]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I think the games have to have a certain LEVEL of realism. Like, for instance, you can't shoot lazer beams out of your eyes, your character can't suddenly pull out a Mass Effect shot gun if it's a Fantasy game (Unless it's pretty much a cross bow machine gun, like Bianca) and etc.

But I REALLY don't get what people are complaining about is unrealistic.

I don't get how people are saying it's unrealistic how 2H warriors wield their weapons now. Have any of these people actually HANDLED an axe or a broadsword? YES, that thing can be heavy but after you get used to using it, you build up so much upper body strength you CAN pretty much whip it around like a stick. It only takes like, a minute to actually strike a hit like in Origins if you simply didn't have the training for it.

What is unrealistic about mages having enough brains to stab something with the pointy end of their staff-sword if they get too close? I thought it was common sense.

And you know this because?

[stlwtng4Dmdrxip]

Haasth wrote...

Fun fact: 2 handed swords were at most around 3 KG (Which is what? 6-7 pounds?). They weren't THAT heavy. They were better off using their fists otherwise. Fun fact: Aveline uses her fists in a cinematic.

And you know this because?

[stlwtng4Dmdrxip]

looks like there's so many people that actualy lived in medieval times and know exacly how easy it was to fight with a 6kg sword for an intire battle, and know exactly how much the swords used in the game really weight in reality

[stlwtng4Dmdrxip]

im puzzled that no one realized that there never were swords as thick as the ones used in this game(2hander) and if there were , pics please

[Rockpopple]

DA:O 2-handed goodness.

2-handed warrior sees enemy. Runs after him. Is so slow for carrying a huge sword around that the enemy has time to do a moonwalk before the 2-H warrior gets close enough.

Finally, he attacks. He hauls back his mighty blade....

And hauls back...

And hauls back....

Enemy twiddles his thumbs.

Finally the momentum shifts and the 2-H warrior brings his terrible blade to bare.

...Eventually..

Too bad the enemy's gone to the tavern for wenches and mead.

REALISM FTW!

[stlwtng4Dmdrxip]

Rockpopple wrote...

DA:O 2-handed goodness.

2-handed warrior sees enemy. Runs after him. Is so slow for carrying a huge sword around that the enemy has time to do a moonwalk before the 2-H warrior gets close enough.

Finally, he attacks. He hauls back his mighty blade....

And hauls back...

And hauls back....

Enemy twiddles his thumbs.

Finally the momentum shifts and the 2-H warrior brings his terrible blade to bare.

...Eventually..

Too bad the enemy's gone to the tavern for wenches and mead.

REALISM FTW!

lol
and thats why 2 h swords never were that pratical

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think the people who advocate for realism are actually using the wrong term.

What they want is credibility. What they want is verisimilitude. The problem with the combination of the ninja movements and the giant weapons, for me, is that the two can't plausibly exist together.

DA2's combat strains credulity. That's the problem.

Realism is the wrong word.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 27 février 2011 - 10:40 .

[Psychoeva02]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I think the people who advocate for realism are actually using the wrong term.

What they want is credibility. What they want is verisimilitude. The problem with the combination of the ninja movements and the giant weapons, for me, is that the two can't plausibly exist together.

DA2's combat strains credulity. That's the problem.

Realism is the wrong word.

yeah u got this right, Realism isn't what matters with western games, its believe-ability to the setting of the game. A commoner from lothering doing crazy ninja moves is not believable.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I think the people who advocate for realism are actually using the wrong term.

What they want is credibility. What they want is verisimilitude. The problem with the combination of the ninja movements and the giant weapons, for me, is that the two can't plausibly exist together.

DA2's combat strains credulity. That's the problem.

Realism is the wrong word.

Right, the problem is that credulity is idiosyncratic. For me, HP breaks credulity. I cannot take the game seriously as anything other than a game when HP is involved. There is no "immersion" in combat in that I actually believe any of these things are even midly logical or coherent.

I just like the aesthetic of acrobatic combat. That's all.

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...
Right, the problem is that credulity is idiosyncratic. For me, HP breaks credulity. I cannot take the game seriously as anything other than a game when HP is involved. There is no "immersion" in combat in that I actually believe any of these things are even midly logical or coherent.
I just like the aesthetic of acrobatic combat. That's all.

There is a difference in value between mechanical abstractions, which are a needed part of a gameplay structure but not part of the ingame lore, and artistic/cinematic/animation direction, which are used to stablish the lore and the verisilimitude of the setting. The first does not break the setting because it isn't part of the setting, while the second can very much do so.

[SammyJB17]

Thank you for telling me to read. I was licking my screen to no avail.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Right, the problem is that credulity is idiosyncratic.

Absolutely it is, but it's also the thing that actually matters to people.

Once they start describing their positions more accurately, BioWare can actually learn something.  As it is right now most people are just spouting nonsense at them.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 27 février 2011 - 11:05 .

[Thullon]

Speaking of verisimilitude... which is more plausible:
I can make it rain flaming meteors.
I can jump 20 feet.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Thullon wrote...

Speaking of verisimilitude... which is more plausible:
I can make it rain flaming meteors.
I can jump 20 feet.

That would depend on the details of the rest of the setting.

[LoK-y-Yo]

Thullon wrote...

Speaking of verisimilitude... which is more plausible:
I can make it rain flaming meteors.
I can jump 20 feet.

make it rain flaming meteors if your timing is good. Wait for the next comet rain ^^

EDIT: hope you don't get mad at me. BTW, what does your image come from?

Modifié par LoK-y-Yo, 27 février 2011 - 11:07 .

[Jet 300]

Whats worse is people who shut their eyes and ears and scream "Nuh uh! Its a FANTASY game! I can't hear you" when any criticism is aired. I mean, isn't critiquing games part of the reason these forums exist? (Thats why I joined, not to complain, but see if any other people share my point of view).
It's not unreasonable even in a fantasy game to expect some likeness to the real world in terms of physics.

[Melness]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Thullon wrote...

Speaking of verisimilitude... which is more plausible:
I can make it rain flaming meteors.
I can jump 20 feet.

That would depend on the details of the rest of the setting.

Are you implying that, up until this moment the 'setting' wouldn't allow for that.

Because saying 'bad retcon is bad' is just arguing for the sake of argue. Which may even be a misconception - just because Origin's combat was limited, doesn't mean that the world of Thedas is devoid of 'OMG RETARD ANIME' melee fighters.

Modifié par Melness, 27 février 2011 - 11:08 .

[Elanareon]

Realism is good... But for those who is fit for it. Let's say a rogue, a real human can not jump that much around. It detracts from the experience given by the game when you see something like that.. But let's say a rogue who has some magic capabilities or and amulet that let's him jump like that. Now that's acceptable because the rogue uses magic actually. Fantasy is mostly about magic, but when non magic people uses magic like abilities then why make a fantasy in the first place?

Some people just don't understand this...

Edited: Additionally, when darkspawn explodes from a slashing strike... That's really over the top, why can it just fall down? Don't you think that using whirlwind everyone around you just falls down rather than exploding un your face? Exploding is good for, let's say a fireball, or that crushing prison skill or an enchanted weapon. But from a sword strike?

Fantasy is better when you mix it with realism because the fantasy is distinct by not being able to do by anyone.

Modifié par Elanareon, 27 février 2011 - 11:15 .

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote...
There is a difference in value between mechanical abstractions, which are a needed part of a gameplay structure but not part of the ingame lore, and artistic/cinematic/animation direction, which are used to stablish the lore and the verisilimitude of the setting. The first does not break the setting because it isn't part of the setting, while the second can very much do so.

HP is an artistic/cinematic/animation issue. Bioware could have chosen to use the Assasin Creed (I just call it that - I'm sure it was used elsewhere) approach were damage reduces your "health" but the animation is not getting hit, but rather blocking. 

Since HP is just an abstract store before an NPC or PC stops fighting, there's no reason to animate it as being hit. That they choose to do this absolutely impacts perception of the setting. It leads to ridiculous things like Cailan being crushed by an ogre and then Alistair having the same thing done to him 4 times in a fight and being just peachy.

If I see Alistair getting whacked 9 times by fire, ice, lightening, attacked by ravenous spiders trying to eat his face, getting punched by an ogre and thrown, getting chomped on by a dragon... and coming out not even with a bruise, that's just as ridiculous as sword twirling.

[In Exile]

Melness wrote...
Are you implying that, up until this moment the 'setting' wouldn't allow for that.

Because saying 'bad retcon is bad' is just arguing for the sake of argue. Which may even be a misconception - just because Origin's combat was limited, doesn't mean that the world of Thedas is devoid of 'OMG RETARD ANIME' melee fighters.

No. He means either could be less plausible. It depends on whether one (or both) are possible by the in-setting rules. You need to know the rules before you can make judgements using them.

[Thullon]

We all have slightly differing opinions on what "realistic fantasy" is.
That's all that needs to be understood.

[Melness]

In Exile wrote...

Melness wrote...
Are you implying that, up until this moment the 'setting' wouldn't allow for that.

Because saying 'bad retcon is bad' is just arguing for the sake of argue. Which may even be a misconception - just because Origin's combat was limited, doesn't mean that the world of Thedas is devoid of 'OMG RETARD ANIME' melee fighters.

No. He means either could be less plausible. It depends on whether one (or both) are possible by the in-setting rules. You need to know the rules before you can make judgements using them.

Which is why I said you can't say that the 'rules' were ever against a rogue using a smokebomb/glass bomb to make you/the target think that it was a teleport realizing a SUPER ANIME JUMP, because your only source is DA:O's combat, which was blatanly limited on melee characters with lots of very unrealitistic shuffling.

And why I also said that even if DA:O's rules were against it, you can't argue against a retcon. Because saying 'bad retcon is bad' is just arguing for the sake or argue.

[Huntress]

v_ware wrote...

DARE NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS GAME!<br />
OUR OPINION IS SUPERIOR!<br />
EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS AND WILL BE PERFECTION!<br />
PRAISE JEBUS AND BIOWARE!<br />
<br />
or:<br />
<br />
I AGREE!<br />
THIS GAME IS CRAP!<br />
OMFG, EVERYTHING THAT BIOWARE MAKES SUCKS!<br />
I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!<br />
<br />
or: (like a normal person)<br />
<br />
I see what you mean, but for me thats not the case. But let's have some cake together anyway.

There is not normal people. So lets get back to : is crap or just taste like cake.

[slimgrin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I think the people who advocate for realism are actually using the wrong term.

What they want is credibility. What they want is verisimilitude. The problem with the combination of the ninja movements and the giant weapons, for me, is that the two can't plausibly exist together.

DA2's combat strains credulity. That's the problem.

Realism is the wrong word.

Sylvius has it right. There's no depiction of reality here, but an approximation of it. Isabella pouncing around like an amped up, Marvel comic book hero is ridiculous. That's not the type of game DA was, or what the lore would call for. But if they want to make a comic book style RPG, that's their perogative.

[Darkeus]

This is why people still don't take gaming seriously. Here we are, arguing about realism in a VIDEO GAME!!! A video game is supposed to be a little over the top and unrealistic. A video game is not here to coddle your suspension of belief.

A game is about game play. A good story usually comes next. Combat does not have to be realistic so that you can "get into character". It is a video game, enjoy PLAYING it, not trying to escape into it.

You are playing a fantasy character of your creation and you control how they interact with the world. You are playing in a fantasy world because in reality, Dragons and Ogres would crush us into bloody paste!

People are calling a game's combat more realistic while ignoring the fact that moves like Cleave, Massacre, Rain of Arrows, and other talents gave the PC and his party in DA:O extraordinary powers that already departed heavily from "realism".

It just amazes me that this argument for realism in VIDEO GAMES still holds water; it is ridiculously hilarious.....