262 réponses à ce sujet

[Melness]

slimgrin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I think the people who advocate for realism are actually using the wrong term.

What they want is credibility. What they want is verisimilitude. The problem with the combination of the ninja movements and the giant weapons, for me, is that the two can't plausibly exist together.

DA2's combat strains credulity. That's the problem.

Realism is the wrong word.

Sylvius has it right. There's no depiction of reality here, but an approximation of it. Isabella pouncing around like an amped up, Marvel comic book hero is ridiculous. That's not the type of game DA was, or what the lore would call for. But if they want to make a comic book style RPG, that's their perogative.

Interestingly, the weapons aren't oversized.

Strangely, you talk as if you're Lead Writer.

[In Exile]

Whoops... wrong thread for some reason.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 février 2011 - 11:25 .

[0rz0]

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCoconutEffect
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic

I guess it doesn't work just for movies .

[Darkeus]

0rz0 wrote...

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCoconutEffect
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic

I guess it doesn't work just for movies .

Ah!  You have to put out a warning before linking to TV Tropes!!  You know that can wipe hours from your life!! 

[LoK-y-Yo]

Darkeus wrote...

This is why people still don't take gaming seriously. Here we are, arguing about realism in a VIDEO GAME!!! A video game is supposed to be a little over the top and unrealistic. A video game is not here to coddle your suspension of belief.

A game is about game play. A good story usually comes next. Combat does not have to be realistic so that you can "get into character". It is a video game, enjoy PLAYING it, not trying to escape into it.

You are playing a fantasy character of your creation and you control how they interact with the world. You are playing in a fantasy world because in reality, Dragons and Ogres would crush us into bloody paste!

People are calling a game's combat more realistic while ignoring the fact that moves like Cleave, Massacre, Rain of Arrows, and other talents gave the PC and his party in DA:O extraordinary powers that already departed heavily from "realism".

It just amazes me that this argument for realism in VIDEO GAMES still holds water; it is ridiculously hilarious.....

I am sorry there are people who have the opposite opinion than you. I don't know, but if having a discussion is ridiculous or hilarious, something in the forums has gone terribly wrong.

The special moves are what its name implyes, special. If every move looks special, then those lose their name. But that is my opinion, not a fact. Even, if 99% of people thought like me, it would still be an opinion, not a fact.

[Xewaka]

Melness wrote...
Interestingly, the weapons aren't oversized.

They aren't overlenghted. They are overthick and overbroad.
There are three dimensions in size, not one.

[Darkeus]

LoK-y-Yo wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

This is why people still don't take gaming seriously. Here we are, arguing about realism in a VIDEO GAME!!! A video game is supposed to be a little over the top and unrealistic. A video game is not here to coddle your suspension of belief.

A game is about game play. A good story usually comes next. Combat does not have to be realistic so that you can "get into character". It is a video game, enjoy PLAYING it, not trying to escape into it.

You are playing a fantasy character of your creation and you control how they interact with the world. You are playing in a fantasy world because in reality, Dragons and Ogres would crush us into bloody paste!

People are calling a game's combat more realistic while ignoring the fact that moves like Cleave, Massacre, Rain of Arrows, and other talents gave the PC and his party in DA:O extraordinary powers that already departed heavily from "realism".

It just amazes me that this argument for realism in VIDEO GAMES still holds water; it is ridiculously hilarious.....

I am sorry there are people who have the opposite opinion than you. I don't know, but if having a discussion is ridiculous or hilarious, something in the forums has gone terribly wrong.

The special moves are what its name implyes, special. If every move looks special, then those lose their name. But that is my opinion, not a fact. Even, if 99% of people thought like me, it would still be an opinion, not a fact.

\\

Nah, it just makes it a hilarious opinion..  Claim it all you want....

And all of the talents are special silly.  They are all powers that defy realism in one way or another., the most agregious is the fact that they don't kill people in one hit....

Again, games are not here to coddle your suspension of belief.....   No matter your opinion or mine.

[Miri1984]

The combat isn't realistic?? *drops her practice wooden daggers and stops trying to do the rogue flips*

THANK the sodding MAKER.

*goes to find some pain medication*

[Melness]

Xewaka wrote...

Melness wrote...
Interestingly, the weapons aren't oversized.

They aren't overlenghted. They are overthick and overbroad.
There are three dimensions in size, not one.

Actually, a comparison from weeks back disagreed with your statement on the blades, but you're spot on when it comes to hilts, I think.

I can't vouch for it though, not that I *care* per-se. I'm betting that one of the very last thing I'll look at when targetting a Miasmic Flask slightly after the position of a mob or avoiding friendly fire from the new Cone of Cold is the appearance of the sword my warrior is using or how 'over the top' a skill, that uses smokebombs to fool the enemies into thinking of teleportation, is.

Besides, I think that the joining cup was also unrealistically overthick and it totally shattered my willing suspension of disbelief.

Modifié par Melness, 27 février 2011 - 11:40 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

50 kg swords?

Well played OP.

[Darkeus]

Melness wrote...



Actually, a comparison from weeks back disagreed with your statement on the blades, but you're spot on when it comes to hilts, I think.

I can't vouch for it though, not that I *care* per-se. I'm betting that one of the very last thing I'll look at when targetting a Miasmic Flask slightly after the position of a mob or avoiding friendly fire from the new Cone of Cold is the appearance of the sword my warrior is using or how 'over the top' a skill, that uses smokebombs to fool the enemies into thinking of teleportation, is.

Besides, I think that the joining cup was also unrealistically overthick and it totally shattered my willing suspension of disbelief.

So the bolded statement..  To that....

[Thullon]

Miri1984 wrote...

The combat isn't realistic?? *drops her practice wooden daggers and stops trying to do the rogue flips*

THANK the sodding MAKER.

*goes to find some pain medication*

It's only realistic if you wrap your wood daggers in tin foil.

[Xewaka]

Melness wrote...
I'm betting that one of the very last thing I'll look at when targetting a Miasmic Flask slightly after the position of a mob or avoiding friendly fire from the new Cone of Cold is the appearance of the sword my warrior is using or how 'over the top' a skill, that uses smokebombs to fool the enemies into thinking of teleportation, is.

However, the very first thing I thought when playing a rogue in the demo was "Wait, do I have to watch that moronic facefirst roll every time I swap targets to attack a nearby enemy?" and kept thinking that until thankfully I could swap to an archer to actually play a character with half a brain.

[Melness]

Xewaka wrote...

Melness wrote...
I'm betting that one of the very last thing I'll look at when targetting a Miasmic Flask slightly after the position of a mob or avoiding friendly fire from the new Cone of Cold is the appearance of the sword my warrior is using or how 'over the top' a skill, that uses smokebombs to fool the enemies into thinking of teleportation, is.

However, the very first thing I thought when playing a rogue in the demo was "Wait, do I have to watch that moronic facefirst roll every time I swap targets to attack a nearby enemy?" and kept thinking that until thankfully I could swap to an archer to actually play a character with half a brain.

Its definitely showy but its your taste. I know people who couldn't stand playing as mages because of the robes, and others who couldn't play as melee because of the shuffling, and a few that wouldn't pick Lightning, not because Chain Lightning sucks, but because they don't like the animation. Does that mean DA:O Mages, Warriors and Rogues are half-assed? No, it means THOSE people couldn't stand small aspects of the gameplay. 

Believe it or not, some people actually like the new animations. Are they perfect for every damn individual gamer in the world? Certainly not. Are they better? Arguably. I'd say that they are simply because the worst they cause is individual unrest on some people's tastes, while the DA:O had completely ridiculous things - shuffling was one. The Ogre's charge being unavoidable is another.

Its the same thing with the dialogue wheel? Is this system perfect: Hell no, it won't ever be. But so wasn't the DA:O system and for all the flaws of the latter, I heartily welcome the Wheel. My character has actual feeling, for God's sakes.

In a completely unrelated note, in my experience, the roll is actually the rarest with the jump a bit more common, if that's any consolation.

Modifié par Melness, 28 février 2011 - 12:00 .

[PretentiousCat]

ITT:

Modifié par PretentiousCat, 27 février 2011 - 11:57 .

[Melness]

PretentiousCat wrote...

ITT:

<image>

The No guy should, then, be providing rationale about why sandwiches are bad while the Sandwich guy would argue against No's taste.

Because that's what we are all doing here.

[PretentiousCat]

Melness wrote...

PretentiousCat wrote...

ITT:

<image>

The No guy should, then, be providing rationale about why sandwiches are bad while the Sandwich guy would argue against No's taste.

Because that's what we are all doing here.

Now you're arguing about the type of arguing.

Just laugh at the picture as was intended.

Modifié par PretentiousCat, 28 février 2011 - 12:08 .

[Xewaka]

Melness wrote...
Believe it or not, some people actually like the new animations. Are they perfect for every damn individual gamer in the world? Certainly not. Are they better? Arguably. I'd say that they are simply because the worst they cause is individual unrest on some people's tastes, while the DA:O had completely ridiculous things - shuffling was one. The Ogre's charge being unavoidable is another.

The shuffling remains. In fact, I noticed it more in DA2 than in DA:O. But that might be because since it was never brought to my attention while playing DA:O, I didn't register it, but since it was such a focal critique of DA:O combat and something they "worked so hard to remove" the fact that it's still there is more noticeable.

Melness wrote...
Its the same thing with the dialogue wheel? Is this system perfect: Hell no, it won't ever be. But so wasn't the DA:O system and for all the flaws of the latter, I heartily welcome the Wheel. My character has actual feeling, for God's sakes.

It is important to realize that the wheel is not the only way to implement voice -which I guess is what you mean with feeling - in a character. I don't mind the voice acting, but I utterly despise an interface that lies, misleads, and cheats the player with its obsfucatory nature - that is, the wheel.

Modifié par Xewaka, 28 février 2011 - 12:08 .

[Melness]

PretentiousCat wrote...

Melness wrote...

PretentiousCat wrote...

ITT:

The No guy should, then, be providing rationale about why sandwiches are bad while the Sandwich guy would argue against No's taste.

Because that's what we are all doing here.

Now you're arguing about the type of arguing.

Isn't that fun?

The shuffling remains. In fact, I noticed it more in DA2 than in DA:O. But that might be because since it was never brought to my attention before, I didn't register it, but since it was such a focal critique of DA:O combat and something they "worked so hard to remove" the fact that it's still there is more noticeable.

It isn't as bad. You cast shield bash and your character won't be shuffling as the enemy gets up.

Besides, take the new Ogre Charge and Rogue Backstab as examples. The way these abilities work as minimize shuffling.

It is important to realize that the wheel is not the only way to implement voice -which I guess is what you mean with feeling - in a character. I don't mind the voice acting, but I utterly despise an interface that lies, misleads, and cheats the player with its obsfucatory nature - that is, the wheel.

On the account of the wheel isn't alone in this department, then I agree. But I can't see much more potential from other systems.

On the account of being one bad-ass cretin, that sneaky little wheel, I simply have no idea what you're talking about. My intent is always transfered into gameplay, when I meant to be nice, Hawke was, when I meant to be pragmatic in the conversation, Hawke was.

Modifié par Melness, 28 février 2011 - 12:13 .

[RainbowPenguin]

 lol. If I might quote a certain Chantry Seeker,
"Bull****, that's not what real happened!!"

[Xewaka]

Melness wrote...
On the account of being one bad-ass cretin, that sneaky little wheel, I simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Then allow me to illustrate you my point with two examples.

Modifié par Xewaka, 28 février 2011 - 12:18 .

[Cavegeta]

I actually had this idea today about realism in gaming, particularly Dragon Age, but as to a level of difficulty instead of suspension of disbelief. If soloing and rushed by ten Hurlocks, you would die. If High Dragon looked at you, you and your party would die. If you romanced Zevran, you would die or at least need some penicillin/poultices.

[Kerethos]

The more I look at the swords and fighting in DA2 I only see one potential issue with them; the grip is a bit too long. This is what causes the sword to appear as "too big", the overall scale is actually quite close to that of a real greatsword. The difference is mainly that the grip is longer, and it's a bit broader. As for the speed, it's about twice of what you'd be able to achieve with a real greatsword, so I wouldn't mind it slightly toned down next time, simply to further distinguish the 2-handed warrior from the rogue - "a bit slower, but with more power"-kind of feel.

But more then anything, I'd love to see some realism in how weapons are tucked away. With shields on your back or on your arm, swords and daggers in your belt, 2-handed weapons over your shoulder and staffs in your hand (like a walking stick or something like that). I'm not much of a fan of the "magically sticks to your back"-thing, convenient as it may be from an animating standpoint.

[Furtled]

I'm not sure the old tradition of men having to stand in a hole when they fight women would really work in a video game

[Melness]

Xewaka wrote...

Melness wrote...
On the account of being one bad-ass cretin, that sneaky little wheel, I simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Then allow me to illustrate you my point with two examples.

Never played Mass Effect, I was talking about my experience with the demo.

Isn't the wheel from both games quite different? I mean, here there should be something like 6 different intents with the Mass Effect broken between Good and Bad.