523 réponses à ce sujet

[Esoj16]

Xewaka wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Thullon wrote...
The wheel with icons is supposed to reduce the risk of saying something unintended.

It does the exact opposite.

Not in terms of tone.

It does in term of content, which is far graver.

How?  This allows for your intentions to transfer into actions more accurately, if you want to accept a quest does it matter if your answer to the npc is "I'll do it" or "consider it done"? I don't really see a difference, as long as your tone and intention come across then it's fine by me.

[wulf3n]

The Minority wrote...
I'm not going to list all the options, that;d take too long.

But it does pretty much boil down to simply 3 options for any situation. Im not saying Origins was a wealth of dialogue choice, but most situations had at least 5 or 6 options with varying inflections, and because what i chose wasn't expressed by someone else, it played out how i intended in my mind.

The Minority wrote...
You can complain now, but you're going to buy the game anyway. Unless you're only on the forums to complain.

Yes, but complaining about things i like is fun.

Morroian wrote...
There are 12 different types of tone.

but we only get to pick 3 at any given time.

Modifié par wulf3n, 27 février 2011 - 06:03 .

[Morroian]

wulf3n wrote...

Morroian wrote...
There are 12 different types of tone.

but we only get to pick 3 at any given time.

No we don't.

[wulf3n]

Morroian wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Morroian wrote...
There are 12 different types of tone.

but we only get to pick 3 at any given time.

No we don't.

do you have an example where theres more than 3 dialogue tones in one wheel?

[Felene]

Xewaka wrote...

Felene wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...
I just want to get some facts about this "dumbed down" label.

Lemme give a shot!
Non customizable companion fighting style or armor.

What is this I don't even...

Fixed armor slot -enhanceable with runes yes, but the armor per se is fixed-, limited weaponry/barred magic school. That's what I reffered to.

That's a good laugh. Thanks.

Modifié par Felene, 27 février 2011 - 06:08 .

[Morroian]

Xewaka wrote...

Morroian wrote...
Depends how you role play.

I roleplay knowing what my character will say. The paraphrase disallows that.

You know in general what they will say, yes there will be exceptions, it doesn't mean that every response is not reflected in the paraphrase.

[Esoj16]

wulf3n wrote...

Morroian wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Morroian wrote...
There are 12 different types of tone.

but we only get to pick 3 at any given time.

No we don't.

do you have an example where theres more than 3 dialogue tones in one wheel?

When you're talking to companions, you can flirt with them, there's also that greed thing when accepting quests and what not, Gaider did say they would use those two left-over spots from the left in various conversations (or something to that effect) we just didn't get a chance to see it in the demo.

[Xewaka]

Link3521 wrote...
How?  This allows for your intentions to transfer into actions more accurately, if you want to accept a quest does it matter if your answer to the npc is "I'll do it" or "consider it done"? I don't really see a difference, as long as your tone and intention come across then it's fine by me.

Ah yes, for one short sentence the paraphrase works.
Now explain me how am I supposed to know that Sigh means I should kill you both, to give just a quick example of why the paraphrase is inadequate to roleplay. If I can't know what my character will say, he/she effectively stops being my character.

Morroian wrote...
You know in general what they will say, yes there will be exceptions, it doesn't mean that every response is not reflected in the paraphrase.

  "Sort of kinda knowing the gist of what he may say if I guessed correctly the writer's mindset" does not, in any way, shape or form, equals "knowing what my character will say".

Modifié par Xewaka, 27 février 2011 - 06:10 .

[Buffy-Summers]

I am sure these has been mentioned but


1. Very few areas (DA2) vs multiple areas (DAO)

2. Fewer Spells and talents (DA2)

3. No control over armor of companions (DA2)

4. Less control over your companions weapons and fighting style (DA2)

5. The ME style guess what the heck your saying wheel conversation instead of the list of much more accurate conversation

Modifié par Buffy-Summers, 27 février 2011 - 06:10 .

[Morroian]

wulf3n wrote...

do you have an example where theres more than 3 dialogue tones in one wheel?

I haven't played the game how can I? And the demo was very sparse on character interaction. I'm going on feedback form the devs over the last few months. We can get 5 responses plus the investrigate option.

Modifié par Morroian, 27 février 2011 - 06:09 .

[Infaela]

wulf3n wrote...

do you have an example where theres more than 3 dialogue tones in one wheel?

All we have access to right now is the demo, which didn't need a whole slew of tone for the choices we had to make.  The fact that there weren't more than three when more than three weren't needed doesn't prove much.

[Felene]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I am sure these has been mentioned but


1. Very few areas (DA2) vs multiple areas (DAO)

2. Fewer Spells and talents (DA2)

3. No control over armor of companions (DA2)

4. Less control over your companions weapons and fighting style (DA2)

Wow really?

[Esoj16]

Xewaka wrote...

Link3521 wrote...
How?  This allows for your intentions to transfer into actions more accurately, if you want to accept a quest does it matter if your answer to the npc is "I'll do it" or "consider it done"? I don't really see a difference, as long as your tone and intention come across then it's fine by me.

Ah yes, for one short sentence the paraphrase works.
Now explain me how am I supposed to know that Sigh means I should kill you both, to give just a quick example of why the paraphrase is inadequate to roleplay. If I can't know what my character will say, he/she effectively stops being my character.

Morroian wrote...
You know in general what they will say, yes there will be exceptions, it doesn't mean that every response is not reflected in the paraphrase.

  "Sort of kinda knowing the gist of what he may say if I guessed correctly the writers mindset" does not, in any way, shape or form, equals "knowing what my character will say".

You do realize that your example is precisely the reason why there are icons in DA2 right?  It's to avoid those kind of situations 

[Thullon]

Given you actually know what the icons mean, I don't see how intent could be misunderstood with the new system vs the old system where you literally had no idea how npcs would take what you said.
I think intent and reception are far more important than what you actually say.
The icon just means I can be sure that what I'm saying is charming or mean or stupid to the npcs that hear it.
I like to be sure that if I pick the comedy phrase I say something universally funny and not spout a one liner about someone's mom because Carver thinks it's funny to be rude.

This wouldn't be a problem if we could type whatever we wanted as a response but given limited choices I'd rather be sure of intent than content.

[wulf3n]

Morroian wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

do you have an example where theres more than 3 dialogue tones in one wheel?

I haven't played the game how can I? And the demo was very sparse on character interaction. I'm going on feedback form the devs over the last few months. We can get 5 responses plus the investrigate option.

I didn't say show me in game. I just said example. any links to what the developers have said would suffice.

[Xewaka]

Link3521 wrote...
You do realize that your example is precisely the reason why there are icons in DA2 right?  It's to avoid those kind of situations 

Because clearly, *sigh* [angry face] means murderous intent. How could I be so blind?
And I still don't know what my character will say.

[Berkilak]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I am sure these has been mentioned but


1. Very few areas (DA2) vs multiple areas (DAO)

2. Fewer Spells and talents (DA2)

3. No control over armor of companions (DA2)

4. Less control over your companions weapons and fighting style (DA2)

1. Depends on how you define "area." For all we know, Kirkwall and the few other places we travel could have more square footage than all of DA:O, and more variety.
2. And how many of those spells in DA:O did you use on a constant basis?
3. False - you can rune/enchant/upgrade their appearance armour.
4. But each companion gains unique skills, plus all characters came with pre-determined skills in DA:O, as well, especially if you picked them up late game..

[wulf3n]

Link3521 wrote...
You do realize that your example is precisely the reason why there are icons in DA2 right?  It's to avoid those kind of situations 

With that video, i don't thinks its about being confused, we all know down means renegade, it's more the extremity in which it was said, since when does [sigh] mean "i should kill you both"? i would expect [sigh] to be more, "sigh, you 2 are pathetic" or something like that. 

[Buffy-Summers]

Really

The breast piece, gloves, helm and boots of every companion are LOCKED and can only be altered when the game decided to change them. You can alter rings and amulets

Some characters can not be changed, ie, I believe i remember in an interview that isabela can not be a ranged rogue at all and that varric was so much better as a range rogue then anyone else

Also that each companion had a very specialized form of a class that made them so much better then others depending on their use

They are basically picking who you must use unless you dont mind really mediocre companions


In DAO i could use alister, shale, sten, odgen as a tank with almost equal success

It looks like in DA2 that 1 companion will be so much better at that then others it would be idiocy to pick anyone else

[Berkilak]

wulf3n wrote...

Morroian wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

do you have an example where theres more than 3 dialogue tones in one wheel?

I haven't played the game how can I? And the demo was very sparse on character interaction. I'm going on feedback form the devs over the last few months. We can get 5 responses plus the investrigate option.

I didn't say show me in game. I just said example. any links to what the developers have said would suffice.

There's a huge thread on this topic somewhere, with a developer stating that this system allows for up to 10 responses for a given situation, if needed - 5 to move the conversation along, 5 to investigate the current topic further.

[Esoj16]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I am sure these has been mentioned but


1. Very few areas (DA2) vs multiple areas (DAO)

2. Fewer Spells and talents (DA2)

3. No control over armor of companions (DA2)

4. Less control over your companions weapons and fighting style (DA2)

1.  From the map screenshot we've seen, DA2 has MORE areas than origins did, can't be bothered to look for the screenies but I think they were on IGN or something, just because it happens on a single city doesn't mean it's smaller.
2.  You may need to count again, 60 spells for mages, 60 skilles for warriors, 60 skills for rogues, that's more than origins and that's not even counting the specializations.
3.  You do control your companions' armor to an extent, you can upgrade their armor, give them runes, changes their weapons, rings, belt, etc.  you just can't change their torso&legs piece.
4.  This one's true, then again I almost always kept my companions with the weapons they were best at, and this way your companions can be more unique since they now have their very own special specializations  and that's a win in my book 

[Morroian]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I am sure these has been mentioned but

1. Very few areas (DA2) vs multiple areas (DAO)

That just means its a more tightly focussed story not that its dumbed down.

Buffy-Summers wrote...

2. Fewer Spells and talents (DA2)

To balance the classes not to dumb down.

Buffy-Summers wrote...

3. No control over armor of companions (DA2)

So fitting the armour that you personally think looks the best is an intellectual endeavour.

Buffy-Summers wrote...

4. Less control over your companions weapons and fighting style (DA2)

Giving characters more personality does not translate to being dumbed down. It widens the characterisation. Plus it should lead the more characters being used depending on the situation which is actually more strategic.

Buffy-Summers wrote...

5. The ME style guess what the heck your saying wheel conversation instead of the list of much more accurate conversation

Those of us who are prepared to use have just as many role playing options as in DAO.

[Felene]

Buffy-Summers wrote...
In DAO i could use alister, shale, sten, odgen as a tank with almost equal success

It looks like in DA2 that 1 companion will be so much better at that then others it would be idiocy to pick anyone else

Oh my, the i-r-o-n-y.

Are you even reading what you're typing?

Modifié par Felene, 27 février 2011 - 06:23 .

[Esoj16]

wulf3n wrote...

Link3521 wrote...
You do realize that your example is precisely the reason why there are icons in DA2 right?  It's to avoid those kind of situations 

With that video, i don't thinks its about being confused, we all know down means renegade, it's more the extremity in which it was said, since when does [sigh] mean "i should kill you both"? i would expect [sigh] to be more, "sigh, you 2 are pathetic" or something like that. 

I'll give you that one, but my point is that this new icon system was developed to help aleviate this problem while still keeping the awesomeness/lameness (take your pick) of the convo wheel

[Morroian]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

In DAO i could use alister, shale, sten, odgen as a tank with almost equal success

If you re-specced them with S&S yes you could. With the defender tree ww have the coice of Fenris, Aveline or Hawke.

Buffy-Summers wrote...

It looks like in DA2 that 1 companion will be so much better at that then others it would be idiocy to pick anyone else

Not if you're prepared to use your brain and spec a 2H properly for it if you want.