523 réponses à ce sujet

[Grunk]

Doesn't Fenris get some skill that makes him strong to magic and so on? So couldn't it be possible that Fenris is a better magic tank than Aveline, and she's a better physical damage tank?

In that sense, it'd be kinda like bringing the right people for the mission, like in ME2. If I'm fighting fleshy unarmored things, I'm bringing Mordin, if I'm fighting robots, I'm bringing Legion, and so on.

[Berkilak]

borelocin wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Berkilak wrote...
You're not using a D&D analogy, you're equating the skills in DA2 to your preconceived notions from other RPGs and rulesets. The sword and board skillset is better for CC, the two-hander for AoE. There's a tank-based aura in the S&B tree, but you can grab it and use it with a two hander. The tank-focussed skill trees are Defender and Warmonger, and both S&B and 2H Warriors can tank just as effectively if you build well. To argue otherwise is blind.

From a pure statistical point of view, sword and shield has increased damage soaking capabilities compared to two hand weapon: therefore, sword and shield, due to the nature of the equipment, is better suited for tanking.

Better suited, but not solely-suited.

Sword+ Board = Tank. Zweihander = more durable, low-range DPS.

They nearly freed all the tank and DPS abilities from those two trees for a reason. Did you even play the demo? Look at the skills? S&B focuses on CC. 2H on AoE. Whether or not you're a good tank or good DPS will not depend on your choice of weapon, but the trees in which you invest - Warmonger for aggro control, Defender for mitigation, Vanguard for DPS and Battlemaster for group buffs/sustainability.

[Infaela]

Morroian wrote...
DA2 is actually is better strategically in this regard. 

That's what I'm hoping.

[IssackHawkeFTW]

*Yawn* Ahoy everyone, back too discussion:
Regarding Rouges people: They have been SERIOUSLY brought down too underpower-ness.....but they kinda where OP in the first one...meh, dosent really bother me, Mages all the way!.
And yes, I think Sword + Sheild is the best way of tanking....

Modifié par IssackHawkeFTW, 27 février 2011 - 07:21 .

[AlanC9]

IssackHawkeFTW wrote...

*Yawn* Ahoy everyone, back too discussion:
Regarding tanks: DEFEINTLY Sword and sheil are the best for tanking than a 2 handed weapon.

Which ain't exactly a change from DAO. The question is whether you absolutely need to go s&s to tank. It doesn't seem so

[Morroian]

OK I will untanlge this mess and answer it anyway.

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Or that its just one single boring dull city

It could mean anything but variety is the spice of life, is a maxim for a reason

One can't have variety in a large city and surrounds? So Athkala is boring, Minas Tirith is boring, Lankhmar is boring, Darujhistan is boring? Cities are an ingeral part of fantasy.

And despite your protestations the story is more tightly focussed than DAO and therefore the setting reflects the story. That doesn't make it dumbed down.

Less does not balance, you can balance by adding more, by removing options you have by all definitions removed options, that is less, that is dumb down

Warriors have more so yes it is to balance the classes. And besides as the subsequent discussion has shown the redesign of the classes has actually led to more strategy being required in teh choice of companions ie. the very opposite of dumbed down.

It has nothing to do with look it has everything to do with +healing + hostility + armor + attack speed

So your saying you would rather Bioware determine your armor for your companions over your own picks? Your strategy is less then theirs? I like putting specific gear on specific people

No I'd rather they found a middle ground with some restrictions on armour and outfits but a choice for each companion. Bioware have done it for their reasons none of which has anything to do with dumbing down. You're just looking for the easy criticism without trying to understand what the devs are trying to do.

Giving a PLAYER less imput and the game company MORE imput is dumbed down. They are doing more for you and you do less for yourself.

You say that like a mantra without actually thinking about it. What I said above applies here they are actually forcing us into more strategic thinking about our companions, the very opposite of dumbed down. And they are making the characters more distinct which is a good thing in a Bioware game.

Some of us like to actually know what we are saying not guessing what the person will say when you say something vague and general

No you really just want to be spoon fed. Just as many role play options are still there if you want to use the system. Now if you were to say that the system distances you from identification with Hawke well you would have a point but its got nothing to do with dumbing down.

Yes but each class has a specialization that you cant give the other, Avelines might be way better for tank then say Fenris or Carver who may have a specialization that is better at something else

Use your brain about how a tank should control the battlefield. You just want to mindlessly pick sword and board. Now that is dumbing down.

The only thing that the upgrade does to winter's grasp is making it back to the original origin spell

Some of the origin spells have been cut in half so they could be "upgraded" to what they originally were in origins

Nerfing some overpowered spells is the opposite of dumbing down.

[IssackHawkeFTW]

The story could STILL not be extremly linear because he Is reading a well...story of the Champion, any exploration you do could be registered as ''part of the story''

[Blablabla79]

JulianoV wrote...

I wonder why they'd even bother with a demo. You simply can't summarize an integral RPG experience properly. ....

The Divine Divinity 2 demo actually let's you play the start of the game including practically ALL the quests there. It shows you exactly what you can expect from the rest of the game.

So why didn't Bioware manage to do that? Why is the demo just stupid fighting and no quests??

[IssackHawkeFTW]

Because Its a demo. Its a short taste of the full game, not one whole chapter for example.

[Thullon]

They probably put in the demo what they felt was appropriate given the resources they had.

They obviously wanted to show off some new features. Art style, dialog, and combat. The demo showed all of those off. Those are the main areas they felt DA:O needed work on.

Assuming the rest is still similar to DA:O then it wasn't necessary to show it in the demo to get the point across.

[Pedonecrophile]

Friendly fire - I do not think where should I place my fireball I just click.
Dialogue - VERY dumbed down system. Always having <=3 options can't be compared to Origins with up to seven dialogue branches.
Camera. Very annoying - removed tactical camera puts DA2 further down the slope.
Tab button now, thanks to retarded camera, almost not showing enemies, so you have to point over every darkspawn to figure which of them is Emissary.
Graphics. Graphics is waaaay worse, than Origins. Cutting best performance options to DirectX 11
only is an awful decision - a whole lot of people are sticking with Windows XP and they'll have to play DA2 on low-graphics.

[IssackHawkeFTW]

Pedon@ But the dialouge choices in DA:O, the tone of them was not shown. It could take you too place you DONT want, Its fixed in DA II

[borelocin]

Grunk wrote...

Doesn't Fenris get some skill that makes him strong to magic and so on? So couldn't it be possible that Fenris is a better magic tank than Aveline, and she's a better physical damage tank?

In that sense, it'd be kinda like bringing the right people for the mission, like in ME2. If I'm fighting fleshy unarmored things, I'm bringing Mordin, if I'm fighting robots, I'm bringing Legion, and so on.

I'll just wait until the "crow that poops respec potions mod" is released, respec Fenris as a Sword and Board warrior and have the best of both worlds

[Morroian]

Pedonecrophile wrote...

Friendly fire - I do not think where should I place my fireball I just click.

Hmm how ironic.

Pedonecrophile wrote...

Dialogue - VERY dumbed down system. Always having <=3 options can't be compared to Origins with up to seven dialogue branches. 

So you don't read the feedback I take it. again the irony is overwhelming.

Pedonecrophile wrote...

Graphics. Graphics is waaaay worse, than Origins. Cutting best performance options to DirectX 11

Uhh no, you may not like the style but the graphics are better.

[Blablabla79]

IssackHawkeFTW wrote...

Because Its a demo. Its a short taste of the full game, not one whole chapter for example.

For arguments sake let's assume there are two ideas for a demo:
1) The idea leading to the demo that was actually released.
2) The idea for a demo that is closer to what Divine Divinity 2 did.

Which demo is better suited to convince gamers about the quality of the content in the game? 
I don't believe anyone here would say the first demo would be better. So why did they go with that idea?

Seriously all of you play the Divine Divinity 2 demo and you`ll be questioning yourself why Bioware didn't go more into that direction with their demo for their RPG! There isn't a single quest in the DA2 demo that you can play from start to finish. It is a demo fitting a FPS not a RPG.

[Lordless]

Pedonecrophile wrote...

Friendly fire - I do not think where should I place my fireball I just click.
Dialogue - VERY dumbed down system. Always having <=3 options can't be compared to Origins with up to seven dialogue branches.
Camera. Very annoying - removed tactical camera puts DA2 further down the slope.
Tab button now, thanks to retarded camera, almost not showing enemies, so you have to point over every darkspawn to figure which of them is Emissary.
Graphics. Graphics is waaaay worse, than Origins. Cutting best performance options to DirectX 11
only is an awful decision - a whole lot of people are sticking with Windows XP and they'll have to play DA2 on low-graphics.

Well, on nightmare friendly fire is enabled, they know the balance better than us and thats definately a balance decision. Someone will probably realease a mod for this at some point anyway.

As for dialog, you will be getting the same amount of dialog options on average as origins I would suspect (investigate option opens up to 5 new dialog options). Only real criticism I can see for the system is that you can't read exactly what they say before they say it and thats a personal preference thing. I really liked the tactical camera as well, wish they had brought that back. The graphics looked fine to me, definately a new art direction but saying they are worse than origins by technical standards seems a little ridiculous to me, if you prefer the old style then thats more of a subjective thing

[Lordless]

Blablabla79 wrote...

IssackHawkeFTW wrote...

Because Its a demo. Its a short taste of the full game, not one whole chapter for example.

For arguments sake let's assume there are two ideas for a demo:
1) The idea leading to the demo that was actually released.
2) The idea for a demo that is closer to what Divine Divinity 2 did.

Which demo is better suited to convince gamers about the quality of the content in the game? 
I don't believe anyone here would say the first demo would be better. So why did they go with that idea?

Seriously all of you play the Divine Divinity 2 demo and you`ll be questioning yourself why Bioware didn't go more into that direction with their demo for their RPG! There isn't a single quest in the DA2 demo that you can play from start to finish. It is a demo fitting a FPS not a RPG.

Yeah I agree completely, while I enjoyed seeing the new combat in the DA2 demo it really didn't sell me on the game, wasn't enough of anything to make any sort of reasonable judgement on any aspect of the game. While it may have sold a few people, not sure the conclusions its made many people draw (founded or not) was worth it. Divinity 2 demo was definately a better demo in all respects.

[Kharn-ivor]

Because the word console was used at some point.

[Thullon]

Clearly some people want a significant portion of the game to play before they decide if they want to buy. There's nothing wrong with that.
However, that's not the purpose of the demo. The demo is just that, a demonstration of some aspect of the game.
People might as well complain that the demo of Divinity 2 didn't have the whole game in it. Clearly a poor plan if someone wants to make an informed decision based on all the facts.
A more realistic question to ask would've been: should they have pushed the release of the final game back just to make a longer demo?

[Lordless]

Thullon wrote...

Clearly some people want a significant portion of the game to play before they decide if they want to buy. There's nothing wrong with that.
However, that's not the purpose of the demo. The demo is just that, a demonstration of some aspect of the game.
People might as well complain that the demo of Divinity 2 didn't have the whole game in it. Clearly a poor plan if someone wants to make an informed decision based on all the facts.
A more realistic question to ask would've been: should they have pushed the release of the final game back just to make a longer demo?

I actually pre ordered well before the demo came out, I have yet to play a bioware game that I didn't enjoy so I have quite a bit of faith in them. RPG demos usually are usually pretty bad at demonstrating the game because by nature RPGs are long and heavily based on story so it's hard to draw any sort of conclusion on how any of these elements shown are going to play out in the full game. The fact that people are jumping to ridiculous conclusions is just the consumers failure rather than the developers though.

[moilami]

Ziggeh wrote...

Dumbed Down: To make worse in some vague manner that I'm unable to describe at this point in time.

How about replacing different bombs with rouge conjuring ad hoc potions?
How about making rouge a teleporting, mega leaping juggernaut?
How about no friendly fire except in "nightmare" difficulty?
How about removing crushing prisons and some other spells from enemy spell list?
How about removing overwhelm?
How about possibly removal of scattering shot from enemies?
How about tanking and WTF PWNing an ogre with a rouge by just spamming badass swings and backstab?

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.


Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

Modifié par moilami, 27 février 2011 - 08:28 .

[k177sh0t]

I'll reserve my criticisms/praise after i've played the Dragon Age 2.

As of now, its too early to critisize/praise the game based on some game reviews.

[In Exile]

moilami wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Dumbed Down: To make worse in some vague manner that I'm unable to describe at this point in time.

How about replacing different bombs with rouge conjuring ad hoc potions?
How about making rouge a teleporting, mega leaping juggernaut?
How about no friendly fire except in "nightmare" difficulty?
How about removing crushing prisons and some other spells from enemy spell list?
How about removing overwhelm?
How about possibly removal of scattering shot from enemies?
How about tanking and WTF PWNing an ogre with a rouge by just spamming badass swings and backstab?

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.


Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

Then you haven't been keeping up with how Nightmare works and how the other difficulties work.

Injuries are still in and now they matter. 20% of your MAX health is locked away per injury. Your max # of injuries goes from 1 on casual to 4 on Nightmare. So on Nightmare you could have 80% of your health locked away. You start bleeding to death at 10% of your HP on Nightmare.

Resistances are now multiplicative instead of additive so you can't stack your way to 100% resistance. And so on.

If you keep up with the development on the gameplay side, you'll see that as you push toward nightmare, the game as gotten significantly better and more challenging. It's almost... trying to be unforgiving, which is very nice indeed.

[The Elder King]

moilami wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Dumbed Down: To make worse in some vague manner that I'm unable to describe at this point in time.

How about replacing different bombs with rouge conjuring ad hoc potions?
How about making rouge a teleporting, mega leaping juggernaut?
How about no friendly fire except in "nightmare" difficulty?
How about removing crushing prisons and some other spells from enemy spell list?
How about removing overwhelm?
How about possibly removal of scattering shot from enemies?
How about tanking and WTF PWNing an ogre with a rouge by just spamming badass swings and backstab?

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.


Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

crushing prison is in DA2 btw. Put mana clash in your post.

[Ziggeh]

moilami wrote...

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.

Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

You managed to respond to my point with exactly the kind of post  I was parodying.

Listing things you dislike is not describing how or why it is "dumber".