523 réponses à ce sujet

[IssackHawkeFTW]

Its because they want too show the new features, most demos for sequels are too show the new features and give a little tatse.

[AlanC9]

Pedonecrophile wrote...
Dialogue - VERY dumbed down system. Always having <=3 options can't be compared to Origins with up to seven dialogue branches.

This is false on both sides. I can't think of any DAO choice with more than three options. Three was fairly unusual itself. And there's no necessary reason to have only 3 or less choices for any given option in DA2.

[Cadaveth]

hhh89 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Dumbed Down: To make worse in some vague manner that I'm unable to describe at this point in time.

How about replacing different bombs with rouge conjuring ad hoc potions?
How about making rouge a teleporting, mega leaping juggernaut?
How about no friendly fire except in "nightmare" difficulty?
How about removing crushing prisons and some other spells from enemy spell list?
How about removing overwhelm?
How about possibly removal of scattering shot from enemies?
How about tanking and WTF PWNing an ogre with a rouge by just spamming badass swings and backstab?

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.


Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

crushing prison is in DA2 btw. Put mana clash in your post.

Yeah but enemy mages don't use it...

[The Elder King]

Cadaveth wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Dumbed Down: To make worse in some vague manner that I'm unable to describe at this point in time.

How about replacing different bombs with rouge conjuring ad hoc potions?
How about making rouge a teleporting, mega leaping juggernaut?
How about no friendly fire except in "nightmare" difficulty?
How about removing crushing prisons and some other spells from enemy spell list?
How about removing overwhelm?
How about possibly removal of scattering shot from enemies?
How about tanking and WTF PWNing an ogre with a rouge by just spamming badass swings and backstab?

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.


Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

crushing prison is in DA2 btw. Put mana clash in your post.

Yeah but enemy mages don't use it...

I see. But if Im right the enemies use completely different spells/skills than PC and companions. So pointing about spells is incorrect.

[moilami]

Ziggeh wrote...

moilami wrote...

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.

Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

You managed to respond to my point with exactly the kind of post  I was parodying.

Listing things you dislike is not describing how or why it is "dumber".

I liked every nasty thing moronical computer mobs did. Especially I liked overwhelm. It was something to pay attention early game.

So you just failed miserably in trying to say "lol it is not dumbed down".

And if I begin to compare DA2 to BG2 or NWN the list "how it is dumbed down" will become even longer. We could start with magic and different character builds, but we don't have to do it since dumbed down is so glaringly obvious.

[Lordless]

"yeah but enemy mages don't use it"

did they confirm this somewhere or something? not that I even think this is a big deal, I'm just curious.

[moilami]

hhh89 wrote...

Cadaveth wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Dumbed Down: To make worse in some vague manner that I'm unable to describe at this point in time.

How about replacing different bombs with rouge conjuring ad hoc potions?
How about making rouge a teleporting, mega leaping juggernaut?
How about no friendly fire except in "nightmare" difficulty?
How about removing crushing prisons and some other spells from enemy spell list?
How about removing overwhelm?
How about possibly removal of scattering shot from enemies?
How about tanking and WTF PWNing an ogre with a rouge by just spamming badass swings and backstab?

That's sumthing (sic) for starters.


Edit: Er..does look like dumbed down to me.

crushing prison is in DA2 btw. Put mana clash in your post.

Yeah but enemy mages don't use it...

I see. But if Im right the enemies use completely different spells/skills than PC and companions. So pointing about spells is incorrect.

They used it in DA. But since masses whined "it is not fun!" it was removed. But of course it doesn't count. Any dumbing down does not count for apologists and believers.

[Ziggeh]

moilami wrote...

So you just failed miserably in trying to say "lol it is not dumbed down".

I entirely failed at saying something I had no intention of saying? Well that was fortunate.

What I was saying was that "dumbed down" is a useless term, rendered meaningless by widescale misuse.

[Swisspease]

AlanC9 wrote...

Pedonecrophile wrote...
Dialogue - VERY dumbed down system. Always having <=3 options can't be compared to Origins with up to seven dialogue branches.

This is false on both sides. I can't think of any DAO choice with more than three options. Three was fairly unusual itself. And there's no necessary reason to have only 3 or less choices for any given option in DA2.

Even if there were more than three possible dialogue options there were usually only two possible results from the dialogue.  I can even remember having at least three options where there was only one result, a conversation with Morrigan for instance where whatever you tell her she answers "well that wasn't the point".

[Cadaveth]

hhh89 wrote...

I see. But if Im right the enemies use completely different spells/skills than PC and companions. So pointing about spells is incorrect.

Depends. Some basic enemies use same talents/skills w/e but some use different ones. And enemy mages in DA1 used same spells (crushing prison, paralyze) etc. along with unique ones.

I think that dumbing down means making the combat even crappier than it was in DAO and DAO had somewhat decent one imo. I'm still shivering from the thought that I have to replay Deep Roads and Urn -quest again... Those were the two most uninteresting and boring combat parts ever, no kidding. Darkspawn wave #5893, #5893rd time spamming the same set of abilities. You don't even need to pause the game.

[The Elder King]

moilami wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
I see. But if Im right the enemies use completely different spells/skills than PC and companions. So pointing about spells is incorrect.

They used it in DA. But since masses whined "it is not fun!" it was removed. But of course it doesn't count. Any dumbing down does not count for apologists and believers.

I know that they used it in DAO, and it was interesting and fun. But I have the impression that enemies have different abilities that PC has in DA2. So it's not only crushing prison that enemies don't have, but other abilities as well, for this I sid that pointing out CP and other spells is incorrest. Though I could be wrong, so don't take my words as a fact.

Edit: in my previous post I meant that enemies use different abilities in DA2, not DAO.

Modifié par hhh89, 27 février 2011 - 09:14 .

[The Minority]

What does dumbed down even mean really? It depends on preference really.

[moilami]

Ziggeh wrote...

moilami wrote...

So you just failed miserably in trying to say "lol it is not dumbed down".

I entirely failed at saying something I had no intention of saying? Well that was fortunate.

What I was saying was that "dumbed down" is a useless term, rendered meaningless by widescale misuse.

You said at first something like "those who say dumbed down say so because they don't know how it is dumbed down" or whatever.

I don't say "dumbed down" if I don't see it happening. I use descriptive words and not politically correct vague tv-speak.

One example of how I use language is I say "great, Izzy have big boobs." Everything has not been dumbed down.

[Swisspease]

Enchantment

[moilami]

The Minority wrote...

What does dumbed down even mean really? It depends on preference really.

My motorcycle is dumbed down and I like it very much. It is simple and clean design very easy to repair without special equipment and computer plugs.

[Ziggeh]

moilami wrote...
You said at first something like "those who say dumbed down say so
because they don't know how it is dumbed down" or whatever.

"At first", I implied that it was being misused to such an extent that the usage had altered to a non descript pejorative. In other words, rendered meaningless by widescale misuse.

moilami wrote...

I don't say "dumbed down" if I don't see it happening. I use descriptive words and not politically correct vague tv-speak.

Funnily, "politically correct" has much the same issue. General misuse has virtually changed it's meaning to a point were it's no longer describing anything.

It is not a descriptive term because you're using it to describe something it doesn't actually mean, which was my point.

[Lordless]

Did people really whine that getting crushing prison cast on them wasn't fun?

I doubt they removed an ability from the enemy spell list because people complained about it in DA:O, the game mechanics have changed substantially and they probably decided that being held in place for 20 seconds unable to act didn't mesh well with the new combat speed/mechanics. There is more than one way to make a game difficult/complex and removing some abilities doesn't necessarily equate to dumbing down.

[Lordless]

When I think of "dumbed down" to me it means simplified with a negative connotation, like something that made the original good was lost in translation.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Not only were the skills removed, you also get less talents/spells. As far as I understand you will be around level 25 at the end of the game. You'll get only one talent/spell per level, so that's a significant change as well.

[The Elder King]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Not only were the skills removed, you also get less talents/spells. As far as I understand you will be around level 25 at the end of the game. You'll get only one talent/spell per level, so that's a significant change as well.

Maybe I remember wrong, but at the end of DAO you'll end with 30 talent points. If you reached level 25. Not a great difference imo.

[Ziggeh]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Not only were the skills removed, you also get less talents/spells. As far as I understand you will be around level 25 at the end of the game. You'll get only one talent/spell per level, so that's a significant change as well.

The complexity of the skills is more to do with the manner in which they interact and not the raw number available.

[iCz IPRiNC3 Xz]

its dumbed down because of the lack of dragons!

oh no.. wait......

[Thullon]

The Skill system was largely redundant.
DA:O: you get stat x so you can get skill rank y so you can pass check z.
DA2: you get stat x so you can pass check z.
Same end result one less step. Not all skills were like this but many were.

[moilami]

Ziggeh wrote...

moilami wrote...
You said at first something like "those who say dumbed down say so
because they don't know how it is dumbed down" or whatever.

"At first", I implied that it was being misused to such an extent that the usage had altered to a non descript pejorative. In other words, rendered meaningless by widescale misuse.

moilami wrote...

I don't say "dumbed down" if I don't see it happening. I use descriptive words and not politically correct vague tv-speak.

Funnily, "politically correct" has much the same issue. General misuse has virtually changed it's meaning to a point were it's no longer describing anything.

It is not a descriptive term because you're using it to describe something it doesn't actually mean, which was my point.

This is not so trivial thing to judge languages. Critique on languages is easy, judging not so. Languages are supposed to evolve and change, and one way that happens is people taking out of dictionary freedoms in using words. Then, if we look at poetry, we can see a lot of inaccurate usage of words. In word play the thing is to use words to express something completely different than what the words would mean to a computer.

[AngryFrozenWater]

hhh89 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Not only were the skills removed, you also get less talents/spells. As far as I understand you will be around level 25 at the end of the game. You'll get only one talent/spell per level, so that's a significant change as well.

Maybe I remember wrong, but at the end of DAO you'll end with 30 talent points. If you reached level 25. Not a great difference imo.

Just checked. 32 for level 24 in DA:O. So the difference is 8 at 25. That's significant.