523 réponses à ce sujet

[rob_k]

BobSmith101 wrote...

rob_k wrote...

Right, but the person I was referring to is claiming you got more than one talent point per level in DA: O at lower levels. It's simply not correct in the base game without mods and the only way you get more than that is by using tomes.

So, I'm left wondering if the person is genuinely mistaken or just trying to make up information to make DA 2 look bad.

I'm settling on it being a genuine mistake, to give them the benefit of doubt.

If I'm remembering right you get extras at key levels, is that what they meant?

Until recently, I hadn't played Origins or Awakening for around 6 months to a year. I'm only just going through it again now and I'm level 9. So far, one talent per level up, as I remember it being from the last playthrough.

The only time I remember that not being the case is at character creation as you can choose talents there. And it's only an extra one I believe (2 tops, but I reckon it's one).

Edit: And besides, if what you say is true, there's nothing to say it's not the case in DA 2 as well.

Modifié par rob_k, 28 février 2011 - 11:50 .

[Tleining]

@ Zigzaggy
did you read that? I mean really, did you honestly read that? Removing Barriers does not equal dumbing down. A few years ago, i started playing Tabletop RPG, the people i was playing with had been playing Tabletop-Rpgs since the beginning of D&D. So instead of going the usual, classic way of diving right into the action, they moved slowly, doing a lot of Sidequests first. Would you call that dumbing down?

I'm sorry, but that's elitism for me. You have the experience, so lowering Barriers to allow easy access for others is dumbing it down. Never mind that the rest of the game is still a classic Bioware RPG, never mind that other RPG-Fans still enjoy it. You don't like it, so it's dumbed down period.

[Skyweir]

rob_k wrote...

Cadaveth wrote...

rob_k wrote...

Wrong. There is no moral compass for the dialog system. Only tones. How things are said etc.

What? Isn't that a moral compass right there? O.o

You say thing number 1 which has happy face next to it. You say thing number 2 with neutral face next to it. You say thing number 3 with angry face next to it. No matter what you say, it's good, neutral bad. Could prove me wrong if you wish though.

Cadeveth,

The bottom option is normally aggressive. Because you choose that, it doesn't mean you're performing a 'renegade' option, like you would be in Mass Effect. Plus there are 12 - 15 icons in the game, representing different tones. So, I don't think it'll always come down to aggressive, saint, sarcastic and diplomatic options. (And the middle icon in the dialog wheel, based on the demo, was normally sarcastic/snarky or whatever you want to call it rather than actually being neutral)

There's no real morality slider in the game either. In fact, there's none at all other than how you're perceived by other characters.

And I'm really not going to debate this further. People just want to bash the game and nitpick at the slightest detail the moment they get the chance.

There's also a thread on the forum you can check out:

http://social.biowar...2420/40#6268832

In particular, check out the dev responses.

But: The aggresive/violent/"evil" option is plaved in the lower right corner. The "nice"/peacefull/diplomatic will be in the upper right. It hardly matter what the game calls these options, it will still be possible to just spam lower right responses to make the "evil" Hawke.

So you will, once again, have only three real options for a consitent Hawke personality "angry", "nice" or neutral (or sarcastic,if you will). You don't get points, but other thant that I do not see the difference between ME and this. It's not like some of the Renegade Shepard responses wasn't angry, or intimidating, or impatient without adding an icon to indicate this.

It remains to be seen if there will in fact be more than these three consitent options in dialog, but from what we have seen from the demo (the only acctual experience we have to base our opinion on so far), it is not likely.

[Tleining]

@ Skyweir
but that's exactly like it was in Origins. Only there it wasn't "Top-Right=Good, Lower-Right=Evil" but "1. Good Response, 2. ...., 3. Evil Response"
That's basically the same for every RPG out there.

[Zigzaggy]

Tleining wrote...

@ Zigzaggy
did you read that? I mean really, did you honestly read that? Removing Barriers does not equal dumbing down. A few years ago, i started playing Tabletop RPG, the people i was playing with had been playing Tabletop-Rpgs since the beginning of D&D. So instead of going the usual, classic way of diving right into the action, they moved slowly, doing a lot of Sidequests first. Would you call that dumbing down?

I'm sorry, but that's elitism for me. You have the experience, so lowering Barriers to allow easy access for others is dumbing it down. Never mind that the rest of the game is still a classic Bioware RPG, never mind that other RPG-Fans still enjoy it. You don't like it, so it's dumbed down period.

Oh I've read alot more than that snippet.

Without playing the game there is already a plethora of interviews and game reviews about the changes...it is undeniable that it is less cerebral..less complexity.

Dumbed down console port maybe a soundbite...but it appropriately describes the situation

DA2 will be a port over to PC (it is being developed for console)
DA2 will be much simpler to play.

You cannot apply your own  interpretation of  those two facts ...they are a given and reiterated by Bioware themselves .

[Swisspease]

I did notice Bethany liking Hawk better when I took a more aggressive stance toward Wesley than when I took the more diplomatic option. So I believe that conversations do affect the rival/friend meet of your NPC's.

[Morroian]

Zigzaggy wrote...

DA2 will be a port over to PC (it is being developed for console)

No it isn't. 

[mindtwist]

Pardon me if I use this topic to post my gripes about DA2.

First of all though, it doesn't seem to me at all that DA2 was dumbed down. I think most of the complains are stemming from the fact that now you can play the entire game with just one button (right mouse button). Ok, I take it back; it does seem dumbed down. It seems Bioware has excelled with the new talent system and attribute points, etc. And in many cases it is reminiscent of DAO while improving on many mechanics of its predecessor. The narration was also good from the short glimpse we had of it in the demo.

My gripe, however, is with regards to the protagonist himself. I can't believe no one has posted yet that Hawke seems like a watered down, lame version of Altair. Like Bioware just copied the entire eagle theme off of Assassin's creed.

Second, I know the character Hawke is customizable but anyone else think Hawke's physique does not match his voice? He seems to be medium built leaning towards thin but his voice comes out thick, and like a person in his 40s. It just seems very unnatural to hear his voice. It reminds you that it's not actually Hawke speaking but a voice actor, and it takes you away from the game.

The point above leads me to my third gripe, which is that the dialogues just seem plain horrible in comparison to the narration.

And perhaps this will change with the actual game but the graphics also looked somewhat awful and not really mesmerizing.

So all in all:

1) Good talent system

2) Good that the stamina has been increase so you don't just run out of it in one or two moves.

3) Loved the some what fast paced styled combat of the game (played as a rogue).

4) All classes seem to be looking great though I wasn't too fond of the 2-hander warrior who seem to have got the same moves as DAO.

5) The narration and the whole idea behind it (Varric as the story teller etc) seem very solid.

On the other hand...:

1) The character Hawke just seems awkward over all and just a cheesy rip off of Altair.

2) The voice quality doesn't really match Hawke.

3) Horrible voice acting and dialogues.

4) Sub-par graphics.

5) Some super cheesy and cliched dialogues ( "...not while I breathe", etc).

6) While the game seems to improve upon certain flaws of DAO, it doesn't really offer anything new.

If I had to judge based on the demo, I don't know, DA2 and DAO would both be tied.

Modifié par mindtwist, 28 février 2011 - 12:39 .

[Lord Drakkul]

Simpler to play does not necessarily translate to "easier game". Can also mean that the games mechanics and interface run smoothly and don't trip you up. I know some people have grown attached to the Dance-Dance-Shuffle-Master movement during combat of DA:O, or the actions being outright ignored, saying it added to the tactics...but I feel that if the game gets in your way, it is artificially making the game harder. I think this game will be plenty challenging on Nightmare mode.

[Zigzaggy]

Morroian wrote...

Zigzaggy wrote...

DA2 will be a port over to PC (it is being developed for console)

No it isn't. 

Then this conversation has no merit...it can only lead to insult.

Peddle your illinformed opinion all you like...it won't alter the fact IT IS !!!

fool

[Zigzaggy]

Lord Drakkul wrote...

Simpler to play does not necessarily translate to "easier game". . I think this game will be plenty challenging on Nightmare mode.

Simpler , less complexity equates to 'easier game' it isn't that difficult a concept.

Sure fighting a multitude of darkspawn on nightmare mode will be challenging.Especially if you have athritis....button mash away my friend.

[Tleining]

@ Zigzaggy
"“Traditional weak points of the classic RPG are … they’re daunting. High barrier to entry. They’re hard to get into. So our goal with 2, I think, is to strip away a lot of that barrier to entry to let you ease into the game.”"
(Mike Laidlaw, Destructoid Interview)
Fact: They want to lower the entry barrier!
You are the one thinking, that the same will be true for the rest of the game. You freely interpret the interviews but if others do it, they are wrong. Nice, really nice.

[rob_k]

Zig,

I believe what he means is they wanted to focus on the combat at the beginning to ease people into the game and then let the roleplaying elements come in after leaving Lothering.

[Jackal904]

Bigdoser wrote...

Ah I remeber david saying something like that if your hawke is normally diplomatic you will get special diplomatic options if your hawke is sarcastic most of the time you get charm and if you use intimidate tone you get intimidate options. If people are complaining about this it makes no sense because if someone is realisticly nice/diplomatic how would they be able to intimidate someone if they hardly ever do it? RPing wise I like this change.

I completely agree that it makes sense. I just don't like it. It forces you to stick with a certain "path" during conversations. I want to choose dialogue options based on how I want to respond, not based on what will give me more "coercion" points. This was a big complaint in ME2. You pretty much had to go fully renegade or fully paragon throughout the game inorder to gain important charm/intimidate options. It is just very limiting.

This isn't a gamebreaker for me though, although I really dislike it. I am not one of those people saying that DA2 is "dumbed down" at all. I'm just giving my 2 cents on that specific topic. I personally loved the demo and I'm extremely excited for the full game. I love pretty much all the improvements and changes they've made to the game. Especially the combat, which is a blast imo.

[Swisspease]

Zig
This is not an argument but just to be more informed. If DA2 is using the same game engine as DAO, that was originally made for the pc, then how is it that DA2 is being ported to the pc?

[Mantaal]

How can you think its not dumbed down?

No inventory for the Group members? Not Dumbed down?
No playable Elves and Dwarfes? Not dumbed down?
You have to play a wannabe Shepard.. not dumbed down?
No Advanced classes you have to unlock. Not dumbed down?
No Dual Weapons for Warriors. Not dumbed down?
Waves of one-hit-mobs. Not dumbed down?

The list isnt even all.
What else they have to do to make YOU think the game is dumbed down from DA:O? Remove your Pink Glasses would help maybe

[Veex]

I'll say that, in my opinion, Dragon Age 2 has altered my biggest gripe with the original for the better. Whether that is proof of the ability to streamline without dumbing down is completely irrelevant to me. I can now enjoy both a quality BioWare story and RPG while also having engaging combat.

You cannot alter another person's perception of the changes made to the game, especially over the internet. They'll interpret what you present through their own lens, not through yours.

[rob_k]

Mantaal wrote...

How can you think its not dumbed down?

No inventory for the Group members? Not Dumbed down?
No playable Elves and Dwarfes? Not dumbed down?
You have to play a wannabe Shepard.. not dumbed down?
No Advanced classes you have to unlock. Not dumbed down?
No Dual Weapons for Warriors. Not dumbed down?
Waves of one-hit-mobs. Not dumbed down?

The list isnt even all.
What else they have to do to make YOU think the game is dumbed down from DA:O? Remove your Pink Glasses would help maybe

One hit...? You refer to the exaggerated portion only...

[Tleining]

@ Mantaal
Being able to change Armor for Group Members requires a lot of thinking?
Being able to play as elves or dwarfes, which, outside the origin story, play exactly the same as every other Origin, is smart?
uh, what?
Quote?
Each class has unique abilities, yes, that's really dumb. Every Sharpshooter is a Frontline Terminator after all.
Reinforcements are dumb, got it. Also: During the Darkspawn-attack on Redcliffe and Denerim, we had the same.

how about you give examples that are objective?

Modifié par Tleining, 28 février 2011 - 12:43 .

[AkiKishi]

mindtwist wrote...

1) The character Hawke just seems awkward over all and just a cheesy rip off of Altair.

2) The voice quality doesn't really match Hawke.

3) Horrible voice acting and dialogues.

4) Sub-par graphics.

5) Some super cheesy and cliched dialogues ( "...not while I breathe", etc).

6) While the game seems to improve upon certain flaws of DAO, it doesn't really offer anything new.

If I had to judge based on the demo, I don't know, DA2 and DAO would both be tied.

1. I don't know I quite AC after game 1.
2. I'd say that a single voice can never sound right for a warrior a rogue and mage. Or if it can it requires a much more talented actor.
3. Totally.
4. Yes but I honestly don't care about graphics as long as they get the job done.
5. Cheese abounds it's sad that it's so generic given that it's focused on a single character.
6. Same old stuff with new bells and whistles - check. Of course a lot depends on what other games you play. It's probably more new to a PC gamer than a console gamer.

With regards to the VO if I had a £ for everyone who said they would would not play FFX because of Tidus' voice I could buy several copies of DA2.

[Swisspease]

What Mantaal nothing about warriors not being able to do archery? Bioware gave dual wielding and archery exclusive to the rogue to try to give each class individuality.

[Veex]

rob_k wrote...


One hit...? You refer to the exaggerated portion only...

And Dragon Age Origins, but we digress!

[AkiKishi]

rob_k wrote...

One hit...? You refer to the exaggerated portion only...

Hurlocks are one hit with warrior skills in the demo. The basic ones anyway.

[rob_k]

Veex wrote...

rob_k wrote...


One hit...? You refer to the exaggerated portion only...

And Dragon Age Origins, but we digress!

I wonder if the person's even going to bother admitting he/she was wrong or try to defend it. Probably won't even respond to it. *shrugs*

Edit: *goes to play the DA 2 demo after what Bob said, seeing as he's only played a sword and board warrior*

I know backstab can kill enemies quickly by the way, when using a rogue.

Modifié par rob_k, 28 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[Darji]

Tleining wrote...

@ Skyweir
but that's exactly like it was in Origins. Only there it wasn't "Top-Right=Good, Lower-Right=Evil" but "1. Good Response, 2. ...., 3. Evil Response"
That's basically the same for every RPG out there.

No it wasnt. You had much more grey in these dialogue choices. Here its bad, good, sarcastic and questions.