523 réponses à ce sujet

[rob_k]

Darji wrote...

Tleining wrote...

@ Skyweir
but
that's exactly like it was in Origins. Only there it wasn't
"Top-Right=Good, Lower-Right=Evil" but "1. Good Response, 2. ...., 3.
Evil Response"
That's basically the same for every RPG out
there.

No it wasnt. You had much more grey in these dialogue
choices. Here its bad, good, sarcastic and questions.

Darji...

If a person makes fun of you for half an hour and you ask them to stop, only for them continue and you hit them, would that make you bad?

That would be the equivalent of an aggressive option.

Modifié par rob_k, 28 février 2011 - 01:14 .

[AkiKishi]

rob_k wrote...

I wonder if the person's even going to bother admitting he/she was wrong or try to defend it. Probably won't even respond to it. *shrugs*

Edit: *goes to play the DA 2 demo after what Bob said, seeing as he's only played a sword and board warrior*

I know backstab can kill enemies quickly by the way, when using a rogue.

Sword and board is probably the worst option in the demo for damage, as well as the overlap with the other SB character.
2H will instagib lots of things, but only the skills, not the base attacks.

[rob_k]

I'm trying it now, Bob.

Just picked mighty blow for the warrior.

Edit: Nope, no one hit using mighty blow and that is when fighting normal hurlocks. It takes off just under half their health it looks like. This is with 2 points invested in strength and one in cunning at level 2.

Modifié par rob_k, 28 février 2011 - 01:14 .

[Mantaal]

Tleining wrote...

@ Mantaal
Being able to change Armor for Group Members requires a lot of thinking?
Being able to play as elves or dwarfes, which, outside the origin story, play exactly the same as every other Origin, is smart?
uh, what?
Quote?
Each class has unique abilities, yes, that's really dumb. Every Sharpshooter is a Frontline Terminator after all.
Reinforcements are dumb, got it. Also: During the Darkspawn-attack on Redcliffe and Denerim, we had the same.

how about you give examples that are objective?

1, Sure it takes alot of thinking to equip your Players. How you handle that kind of stuff? "Well i dont care what they wear i just klick random on items who are not greyed out!" ??
2, So tell me how many Human Arkan Warriors in Da:O you met? Let me guess. Not a single one? Why is that? Because Elves outside the Origin story played the same? 
3, Are you confused? Well you like mindless hack&slash games so im not surpriced.
4, In DA:O every class had unique abilitys also? And? Whats your point? Should that explain the missing Advanced classes missing in DA2? How? 
5, Reinforcments are dumb? In what world you are living? Oh you mean that sarcastic? Ok but still. i could not just set a Rain of fire on the mobs in Redcliff to kill them all. just didnt work even in normal. Seems like you missed the point here also.

How about you read the text you quoting? I know my english isnt the best but i think its understandable. "Objektive" is a thing you net alot from

Modifié par Mantaal, 28 février 2011 - 01:33 .

[bubblesz]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

It's simple: you see, Dragon Age 2 is not exactly the same as Dragon Age: Origins, therefore it is awful.

I like you and i agree. still buying it tho.

[DominantDjDark]

 Hm, well I've noticed that people have been complaining about how bad the customisation is...And on that note, ofcourse the customisation is going to be crap, when it's not even active on the demo  anyway personally I love the demo, and more so, I suspect the game itself is going to be awesome, everyone's complaining about the start of it and, like the first one, alot of people thought it was crap too.

I loved all of the starts myself though, but hey, what can you do? 

[TMZuk]

Why, it is obviously dumbed down:

-The already restricted classes are now restricted even further, to the point where it is plain silly.
-Not a single non-combat skill-tree.
-Extremely restricted maps, with no room to manouvre. That was bad already in DA:O so by all means, lets make it worse.
-no possibility to scout ahead.
-ridiculous combat moves and abilities. Again this was bad in Origins and has taken a turn for the worse.
-No choice in race.

Should I go on? They have taken all the things that were bad in DA:O, and enhanced them, and removed just about everything that was good.

RPGs are about having options. Options is more than interactive cutscenes between completely unavoidable waves of enemies in completely unavoidable combat-situations. Fallout: New Vegas is an RPG. This is not an RPG, it's a squad-based combat game, with RPG lite elements in the inbetween cutscenes.

[Zigzaggy]

Swisspease wrote...

Zig
This is not an argument but just to be more informed. If DA2 is using the same game engine as DAO, that was originally made for the pc, then how is it that DA2 is being ported to the pc?

Hi Swiss.

Well ..yes, the game uses the same engine. You should also be aware it is also compiled on Biowares PC's.

To keep it very very simple...console usually get a downgraded (from high-spec PC )game to be able to play it.With many of the PC features removed altogether (you only have so many buttons right).As one 360 is internally the same as other 360's ..there are limited elements that you can work with.

As you don't have both platforms being compiled seperately .What is mean't by console port...is you get a game designed exclusively around the xbox features...you cannot then upgrade !  Think of it like this you can turn that HD movie into an Mpeg..but not the reverse.

This is easy to understand when you consider many PC features have been lost in DA2.Notice I didn't say removed.Because they were never there to begin with.
This is why you have much simpler menu interface,no isometric camera...simpler skill/atribute trees etc etc.
All these jampacked features are surplus to requirement ..they are not needed.So they are not implemented.

So when you have finished.You have a polished product that caters for and  runs on all these console clones.

Basically..they then add WSAD and other key assignments and port it over as it is. A  game designed around console.

You've traded in your car with sat nav,colour tv's in the back for the kids,heated seats,rear view parking camera, air conditioning...for a ford fiesta with a radio and windscreen wipers.

This is why you are hearing phrases like 'more streamlined'  or  complexity bored people and  DAO had a low completion rate..you people don't really want that type of game,try this garbage port  instead.

Modifié par Zigzaggy, 28 février 2011 - 01:50 .

[neo.necromaniac]

Is it true that the demo was from 2010 October PAX event? Show me some evidence about this rumor.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

mindtwist wrote...
My gripe, however, is with regards to the protagonist himself. I can't believe no one has posted yet that Hawke seems like a watered down, lame version of Altair. Like Bioware just copied the entire eagle theme off of Assassin's creed.

Not sure about Assassin's Creed Altaïr Ibn la-Ahad but I do know Assasin's Creed 2's Desmond who explore the memories of Ezio Auditore da Firenze. Both DA 2's Hawke and AC2's Ezio don't exist in their current reality. Hawke exist in Varric's tale. Ezio memories exist in Desmond's mind. To make it simple, we are actually playing a non existing character. Virtual reality inside virtual reality negates the effect of outer virtual reality. It creates disbelief sense much like the legend itself. 

To me; Dumb down version of virtual reality or fantasy. Fully detach me from main character ( Hawke ) who is inside Varric's Tale. I can't stand playing Assassin's Creed 2's Ezio for more than 15 minutes due to this realization. But I can understand why Bioware is so persistent to use this dumb down version of fantasy. Hopefully DA 2's story is immerse enough for me to forget the reality that Hawke is inside Varric's tale. Else, I really don't know how to get connected with this type of character. I cross my finger that Bioware will not try to pull this stunt again in DA 3. 

[Zigzaggy]

If all Hawke is..is a distraction because they couldn't fit the complexity of DAO into such a short development cycle.
Then fair enough goodbye to the franchise..it had potential ,great shame.

But IMO I don't think after it's opening few days of success even console will like it.Probably go down as a 2011 stinker.

[Mantaal]

TMZuk wrote...

Why, it is obviously dumbed down:

-The already restricted classes are now restricted even further, to the point where it is plain silly.
-Not a single non-combat skill-tree.
-Extremely restricted maps, with no room to manouvre. That was bad already in DA:O so by all means, lets make it worse.
-no possibility to scout ahead.
-ridiculous combat moves and abilities. Again this was bad in Origins and has taken a turn for the worse.
-No choice in race.

Should I go on? They have taken all the things that were bad in DA:O, and enhanced them, and removed just about everything that was good.

RPGs are about having options. Options is more than interactive cutscenes between completely unavoidable waves of enemies in completely unavoidable combat-situations. Fallout: New Vegas is an RPG. This is not an RPG, it's a squad-based combat game, with RPG lite elements in the inbetween cutscenes.

Agree.

Well i think it this game had a different Name and not from Bioware it would not be THAT bad. I would not pay 50€ for it but i think it would be a nice little game you could have fun with an evening or two. But from Bioware and Dragon Age i just have higher standards. Man its BIOWARE! Those peoples used to make deep games you still playing after 10 Years and no a filler game to play if you got nothing else aviable at the moment.

I did play Diablo2 when i was in the army. I had fun with. Nothing wrong with plain simple hack&slash games you dont have to think or read. You just smash your mous buttons and you are done for 2 hours. But if all games would be that mindless trash i would have sold my PC some years ago. But Bioware was one of the Developers always make it posibble to dive in a different universe full of wonders and deep story. And what we get now? A wannabe RPG where all those tings are missing makes a Bioware game a Bioware game.. its sad for me.
What happend? Did EA take Bioware members as Hostages and tolt them to make the worse possible out of DA:O and remove everthing cool? 

Modifié par Mantaal, 28 février 2011 - 03:00 .

[Swisspease]

Thanks for the explanation Zig. I can understand now how the pc is limited by the consoles.

[Lordless]

Mantaal wrote...

How can you think its not dumbed down?

No inventory for the Group members? Not Dumbed down?
No playable Elves and Dwarfes? Not dumbed down?
You have to play a wannabe Shepard.. not dumbed down?
No Advanced classes you have to unlock. Not dumbed down?
No Dual Weapons for Warriors. Not dumbed down?
Waves of one-hit-mobs. Not dumbed down?

The list isnt even all.
What else they have to do to make YOU think the game is dumbed down from DA:O? Remove your Pink Glasses would help maybe

Well, I agree that the no inventory for party members is a bit "dumbed down"

Not having multiple races doesn't seem dumbed down, it didn't fit the story they wanted to tell so they did away with it.
As for the shepard thing thats just opinion and wouldn't be "dumbed down" even if it were true

I thought unlocking the specialized classes was cool in the first game, but the choices you made were only relevant in that playthrough, once you had unlocked them they were unlocked for good which kind of made it pointless imo.

Considering how much overlap there was between warrior and rogue trees in DA:O, this seems like an ok change to me. Mind you that dual wield warriors are pretty awesome and it would have been nice to have them included.

Modifié par Lordless, 28 février 2011 - 04:45 .

[In Exile]

Jackal904 wrote...
I completely agree that it makes sense. I just don't like it. It forces you to stick with a certain "path" during conversations. I want to choose dialogue options based on how I want to respond, not based on what will give me more "coercion" points. This was a big complaint in ME2. You pretty much had to go fully renegade or fully paragon throughout the game inorder to gain important charm/intimidate options. It is just very limiting.

It doesn't work that way. You get to persuade, but I believe those just depend on your dominant personality, which you always have. Basically, if you pick more of charming/diplomatic/aggressive, that option will make up your Hawke's personality and you'll get those persuade options. It's not 100% clear if these are situationally varying or not, but as of right now having a particular dominant personality is 100% flavour.

[Gvaz]

DA:O owned. All you needed to do was make the bottom half and top half of character's animations independent like WoW (since you keep using it as a reference, devs) and allow that stop and go mobility and It would have been perfect.

You almost hit that with DA2, but then it looks like you brought down the rest of the game with it, like with ME2. How disappointing.

[Ryuukishi]

"Dumbed down" doesn't mean anything. It's a slogan people use when they don't like a change but can't intelligently explain why.

[Rawgrim]

Ryuukishi wrote...

"Dumbed down" doesn't mean anything. It's a slogan people use when they don't like a change but can't intelligently explain why.

Actually people have explained why all over the place. Some have done it intelligently too.

[IssackHawkeFTW]

The build, fromw hat I saw, compared with more recent build, comapred with the PAX build, seems too me like a old one.

[Thorne_underfoot]

I personally am not going to judge the game till it comes out and I have played it. However, i will share my concerns.

I recently finished playing ME2. LOVED The game, but it struck me as being RP light (at least as far as equipment/skill customization). What I mean by this is that you couldn't change/customize your companions (or even Shepard) beyond a very minimal amount. you could outfit him limitedly and you could choose his gun. And there were 4 skills you could update. But nothing like the customization of a game like NWN2. No stat manipulation. No mixing and matching armor sets. no customizing weapons (other than the extremely linear weapon progression).

With DA:O, you could really customize your companions as well as your main. I fear that with DA2, you won't be able to outfit your companions, or even customize their skills to the same degree as the original. I see this as a trend in gaming, and yes I see it as Dumbing down.

Still, haven't seen all of the threads. Haven't played the game. Holding out judgment till I do. Just hoping that I still have all of the choices that I had in the original. Or more.

[mindtwist]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

mindtwist wrote...
My gripe, however, is with regards to the protagonist himself. I can't believe no one has posted yet that Hawke seems like a watered down, lame version of Altair. Like Bioware just copied the entire eagle theme off of Assassin's creed.

Not sure about Assassin's Creed Altaïr Ibn la-Ahad but I do know Assasin's Creed 2's Desmond who explore the memories of Ezio Auditore da Firenze. Both DA 2's Hawke and AC2's Ezio don't exist in their current reality. Hawke exist in Varric's tale. Ezio memories exist in Desmond's mind. To make it simple, we are actually playing a non existing character. Virtual reality inside virtual reality negates the effect of outer virtual reality. It creates disbelief sense much like the legend itself. 

To me; Dumb down version of virtual reality or fantasy. Fully detach me from main character ( Hawke ) who is inside Varric's Tale. I can't stand playing Assassin's Creed 2's Ezio for more than 15 minutes due to this realization. But I can understand why Bioware is so persistent to use this dumb down version of fantasy. Hopefully DA 2's story is immerse enough for me to forget the reality that Hawke is inside Varric's tale. Else, I really don't know how to get connected with this type of character. I cross my finger that Bioware will not try to pull this stunt again in DA 3. 

My point was that  there were several interviews with UBIsoft developers in which they said that their entire intent on creating Altair was to make him look like an eagle. "Altair" is an Arabic word which means, "eagle." The only difference is UBIsoft did it more subtly while Hawke just seems like a blatantly awkward costume wearing copy of the orginal. I do agree Ezio Auditore seemed like a much weaker character in comparison to his predecessor though.

And to be fair Bioware followed the whole story from a third person's view (narrative *cough*) because they wanted to the story to be flexible and interchangeable. Like one person could have a different experience playing Hawke while someone else could have a completely different experience (to make players more attached to the experiences of their character). And to credit them I do think the narration seemed quite nice.

But like I said though, Hawke as a character just seems awkward, like his voice and his physique don't match up (like hearing a scrawny kid speak like a heavy 40 yr old) and the entire idea just seems like a rip off of Altair.

And also, while the narration of the story is nice the dialogues just seem very bad.

Just my opinion, and appreciate your comments btw.

Modifié par mindtwist, 28 février 2011 - 11:17 .

[darklordpocky-san]

I think even reviewers have danced around the subject. They criticized the plot, characters and lack of freedom which could be a problem stemming from shortening options.

-You cannot choose a race, and your character is not really a "made from scratch" archetype.
-The story is framed
-The classes are more strictly set, Mages seem to be stuck with being ranged this time around
-the characters aren't fleshed out over time, rather time is skipped to get to changes

I'm not sure how these changes will adversely effect my opinion of the game, but I am someone who prefers choice, over simplification. And if it is simplified, it should be done with the intentions of making the game feel larger, while being smaller in scope.

As for the combat; I see no problems with it so far, or at least none that would kill it for me.

+Combat is faster, and feels more fluid.
+Magic looks better, and melee looks cooler.

Maybe all these worries will be put to rest upon release. . . or maybe they were all true. I'll let you know my opinion after gamefly sends the rental copy.

[Morroian]

Zigzaggy wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Zigzaggy wrote...

DA2 will be a port over to PC (it is being developed for console)

No it isn't. 

Then this conversation has no merit...it can only lead to insult.

Peddle your illinformed opinion all you like...it won't alter the fact IT IS !!!

fool

Resorting to insults? The fact is the game engine is the same as DAO, the facts from the devs are that they have had the game being developed and running on all 3 platforms simultaneously ie. not being developed for one and ported to the others.

[Gvaz]

It's similar to ME1->ME2. Some like everything about ME2. I just like the combat and the improved engine, but nothing else really. Hammerhead has an honorable mention but thats about it.

ME1 was better not because of combat, which was a hamfisted tps, but because of the story, presentation, and the "phat loot". Sorry but choice or the illusion thereof, while not being railroaded to hell, with interesting charater discussions is what gets me, story less so.

Modifié par GvazElite, 28 février 2011 - 08:31 .