523 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Dubya75 wrote...

I think my original question has been satisfied.
People who accuses DA2 of being dumbed down are simply afraid of the changes.
The game was after all built by people who know how to build RPG games. Perhaps times are a-changing and RPGs are moving on from Baldur's Gate and alas, Dragon Age Origins.
For some, yes that will be a bad thing. But for others it is a welcome change. A breath of fresh air.
Yes, change can be painful and yes, some fans will leave. But others will join the ranks of darkspawn killers.
Now can someone please get my violin...

Do you not get what dumbing down means ? 

Because by any objective standard DA2 has been dumbed down. The only subjective thing is whether you think it's good or bad.

[rhautanen]

The way the Warden says it really means nothing. You will only ever have two outcomes....

It means nothing to YOU. Some people are different than you, and it does mean something to them.

[Sierra Crysis]

Archereon wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Ah I remeber david saying something like that if your hawke is normally diplomatic you will get special diplomatic options if your hawke is sarcastic most of the time you get charm and if you use intimidate tone you get intimidate options. If people are complaining about this it makes no sense because if someone is realisticly nice/diplomatic how would they be able to intimidate someone if they hardly ever do it? RPing wise I like this change.

I dislike how it railroads us into taking a certain conversation path 99% of the time like in Mass Effect, or, assuming persuasion is as useful as it was in DA:O, suffering dire consequences.  The worst part is no visible meters, meaning we ABSOLUTELY have to go all the way with one path, since we can't be sure if we have enough "diplomatic/silly/aggressive" points.

Actually.. If the demo is anything to judge, which it may not be... The automated dialogue goes by the choices we make most often, meaning a predominantly sarcastic Hawke will deliver more sarcastic lines. It doesn't necessarily mean you hafta deliver X ammount of snarkyness to do it, you just have to deliver more snarky lines than diplomatic or dominant.

[JrayM16]

BobSmith101 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

No, you're misunderstanding my point.  Which could have been caused by me misunderstanding your original point so I'll try to clarify.

The writers wrote the responses in Origins with a certain tone in mind.  Thus they wrote reactions by characters with that tone in mind. 

Stuff like Sten reacting adversely to your cheery comments are not a mistake, this kind of thing is deliberate. 

It's when you choose a response that you read as nice when the character treats it as not nice.  Here, everything is going correctly except the player's interpretation of the line.

That being the case they could have simply put intent icons in the old system.

The real reason they are doing this is simple. They want to make Hawke "fantasy" Shepard and get the same sales jump from DA1-DA2 as the did from ME-ME2.

Meh.  I like paraphrases, but your point is legitimate.  I disagree with the notion that this was done purely for sales.

[AkiKishi]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

No, you're misunderstanding my point.  Which could have been caused by me misunderstanding your original point so I'll try to clarify.

The writers wrote the responses in Origins with a certain tone in mind.  Thus they wrote reactions by characters with that tone in mind. 

Stuff like Sten reacting adversely to your cheery comments are not a mistake, this kind of thing is deliberate. 

It's when you choose a response that you read as nice when the character treats it as not nice.  Here, everything is going correctly except the player's interpretation of the line.

That being the case they could have simply put intend icons in the old system.

The real reason they are doing this is simple. They want to make Hawke "fantasy" Shepard and get the same sales jump from DA1-DA2 as the did from ME-ME2.

or the simple reason is that the new system better conveys options to select. like how some players when trying to investigate things accidently ended convos in the first. so it has a much better interface and is less clunky.

If you seriously believe that, watch the Silverman interview.

JrayM16 wrote...

Meh.  I like paraphrases, but your point is legitimate.  I disagree with the notion that this was done purely for sales.

You may change you mind if you watch the Silverman interview. I'll try to dig up a link but it's probably easier just to type it into youtube.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 26 février 2011 - 07:11 .

[Dubya75]

Darkeus wrote...

Well that is funny, I played it liek I played DA:O and found it to work five times better and faster.

This. 

[Dubya75]

BobSmith101 wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

No, you're misunderstanding my point.  Which could have been caused by me misunderstanding your original point so I'll try to clarify.

The writers wrote the responses in Origins with a certain tone in mind.  Thus they wrote reactions by characters with that tone in mind. 

Stuff like Sten reacting adversely to your cheery comments are not a mistake, this kind of thing is deliberate. 

It's when you choose a response that you read as nice when the character treats it as not nice.  Here, everything is going correctly except the player's interpretation of the line.

That being the case they could have simply put intend icons in the old system.

The real reason they are doing this is simple. They want to make Hawke "fantasy" Shepard and get the same sales jump from DA1-DA2 as the did from ME-ME2.

or the simple reason is that the new system better conveys options to select. like how some players when trying to investigate things accidently ended convos in the first. so it has a much better interface and is less clunky.

If you seriously believe that, watch the Silverman interview.

They really need to fire that guy.

[Junri]

How are conversations dumbed down? Before we knew what the Warden was going to say because we could just read it. Now it requires some brain power to actually figure out what Hawke is going to say from that two to three word paraphrase!



But in all seriousness, the stats and skill system as well as the combat system is definitely more complex then it was in Origins. The skill combo system allows more tactical decisions to be made and as someone said earlier the stats system was designed so that there are no wasted stat points. Also the new additional customization options such as runes are definitely going to add some more critical thinking about how you want your characters to be like.



Also, I don't see how a short development cycle has anything to do with being dumbed down. Content might be lacking, but complexity is easy to implement especially if the foundation is already there.

[Dubya75]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I think my original question has been satisfied.
People who accuses DA2 of being dumbed down are simply afraid of the changes.
The game was after all built by people who know how to build RPG games. Perhaps times are a-changing and RPGs are moving on from Baldur's Gate and alas, Dragon Age Origins.
For some, yes that will be a bad thing. But for others it is a welcome change. A breath of fresh air.
Yes, change can be painful and yes, some fans will leave. But others will join the ranks of darkspawn killers.
Now can someone please get my violin...

Do you not get what dumbing down means ? 

Because by any objective standard DA2 has been dumbed down. The only subjective thing is whether you think it's good or bad.

That's your opinion. That is ALL it is.

[JrayM16]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I think my original question has been satisfied.
People who accuses DA2 of being dumbed down are simply afraid of the changes.
The game was after all built by people who know how to build RPG games. Perhaps times are a-changing and RPGs are moving on from Baldur's Gate and alas, Dragon Age Origins.
For some, yes that will be a bad thing. But for others it is a welcome change. A breath of fresh air.
Yes, change can be painful and yes, some fans will leave. But others will join the ranks of darkspawn killers.
Now can someone please get my violin...

Do you not get what dumbing down means ? 

Because by any objective standard DA2 has been dumbed down. The only subjective thing is whether you think it's good or bad.

I greatly disagree with the OP's logic but I contest the point that the game is dumbed down. 

The gameplay is the same except flashier.  Being flashier with over-the-top animations does not equal "dumbed down."  The change to gameplay is aesthetic.

In terms of dialogue and character development, I think an argument can be made that it has been dumbed down.  I still disagree, but  I feel the argument is far more valid and in many cases trumps the opposing argument.  Here, I think your point about "whether it's good or bad" being the only subjective part actually holds water.  I think it's good.

[Sierra Crysis]

Why I like the paraphrasing, and why it allows me to identify more with the character is that... Most normal people, when they get emotional... They don't always say things exactly the way they intended. It doesn't always come out right. Maybe not everyone does this, but it happens to me alot, especially when I come over heated arguements or when I'm a little passionate about the subject.

Having to stop and read the entire dialogue always makes me think of people in speech class or whatever that try and read from cue cards. I can just see them doing it.

[JrayM16]

BobSmith101 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Meh.  I like paraphrases, but your point is legitimate.  I disagree with the notion that this was done purely for sales.

You may change you mind if you watch the Silverman interview. I'll try to dig up a link but it's probably easier just to type it into youtube.

THe Silverman interview is not representative of anything.  I saw it.  It's marketing BS, pure and simple.

[Darkeus]

rhautanen wrote...

The way the Warden says it really means nothing. You will only ever have two outcomes....

It means nothing to YOU. Some people are different than you, and it does mean something to them.

Boy, you missed that point completely.... 

Point of the matter, since you were not able to comprehend it, is that it doesn't matter if it matters to you how the Warden says it.  In the end, there are only two outcomes, no matter what you want.

Period, simple, no way to get around it.  No matter how teh Warden says it, it will ALWAYS result in one of two options.

Why care about the tone of a response that means nothing to the actual game since you still get one of two outcomes.  The game cares not what you wanted to say, it simply goes "This response was pressed, this response is given...."

[Drake Sigar]

Dubya75 wrote...

So many people are complaining about DA2 saying it is "dumbed down". I really don't get where this opinion originated from.
None of us have played the full game so how do we know it is "dumbed down"?  
What's been stripped out of DA2 that was in Origins? I'd really like to know!

It’s all in my blog

I’m getting tired of hearing people say things like “wait for the full game.” The demo is there to give us an accurate impression on the full game, that’s the entire point of a demo. Do I need to start acting like one of those Wikipedia/dictionary jerks and pasting definitions of the word demo?

Modifié par Drake Sigar, 26 février 2011 - 07:15 .

[rhautanen]

People who accuses DA2 of being dumbed down are simply afraid of the changes.

That's what you have concluded? How? Sounds like a pretty simplistic dismissal of something you just don't happen to agree with. I find your conclusion to be dumbed down.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

@ Bob

what specific thing are you talking about in the interview??? because i cant recall what you are trying to point out???

[Kingthlayer]

Yoshileon wrote...

The conversations are dumbed down as hell...
"Click here if you want to be good"
"Click here if you want to be bad"

It's exactly the same as mass effect conversation system, which I disliked because of this.
The only difference is that now it displays an icon.

Most people won't even read what they're answering...

EDIT: This is one of my favorite games, and i'm really looking forward for it. I just think the conversations are dumbed down a bit. sadly...

The exact same as DA:O.  FFS DA:O tells you exactly what option to chose to persuade or intimitade them. 

Anyways the answer to your question is simply PC gamers, look at any message board of any PC game and you see the same stuff.  They personally feel that they're a level above everyone and that everyone should bow before them because they have a PC.

[Distilled]

Personally with the whole "over time Hawke's personality will change based on what dialogue you choose," I think we haven't really seen enough of the dialogue wheel to say for sure whether or not it's dumbed down when you consider that a lot of Origin's decisions lead down the same path either way.

From what we've seen it looks dumbed down, but it may end up fairly unique depending on how you have your Hawke respond.



Combat and such is fairly similar to Origins, although considerably more flashy.

[AkiKishi]

JrayM16 wrote...

THe Silverman interview is not representative of anything.  I saw it.  It's marketing BS, pure and simple.

It's representative of where they wanted Dragon Age 2 to go. Lead guy of DA quit didn't he? I'm starting to see why.

Why would you ignore it ? He's a Bioware employee they don't allow him to say anything that is not company policy.

[Darkeus]

Demos are not there to give you an accurate anything....

Where did people get that idea from.

The demo gives a taste of combat and a taste of the conversation wheel.  How is that the full game? How is that an accurate portrayal of teh full game? It is not and stop imagining that it is...

There have been many games that have been different than the full game. In fact, last I checked, most demos SAY THAT EXPLICITLY IN THE TITLE SCREEN.  Most demos say "This is not the full game and so things may be different or changed from the full game."

A demo is usually old code and NOT representative of teh full game.... They never have been.

Modifié par Darkeus, 26 février 2011 - 07:24 .

[JrayM16]

BobSmith101 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

THe Silverman interview is not representative of anything.  I saw it.  It's marketing BS, pure and simple.

It's representative of where they wanted Dragon Age 2 to go. Lead guy of DA quit didn't he? I'm starting to see why.

Why would you ignore it ? He's a Bioware employee they don't allow him to say anything that is not company policy.

But marketing hype is always marketing hype, nothing more.  Remember the "New Sh**" trailer for DA:O?

[marcusgs221]

This may have been covered but I didn't read the whole thread.



What worries me the most is not being able to change out armor. I feel this limits versatility in npc and main char. Hopefully the rune system will be an adequate replacement

[AkiKishi]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

@ Bob
what specific thing are you talking about in the interview??? because i cant recall what you are trying to point out???

http://dualshockers....fect-interview/

It's especially funny when you read the tag line on the page.

"Bioware: Dragon Age 2 Will Not Experience a Mass Effect (Interview)"

wheel mass effect
single protagonist mass effect
fixed outfits for companions.... um mass effect.
Feel free to add to the list if you like.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 26 février 2011 - 07:27 .

[rhautanen]

Anyways the answer to your question is simply PC gamers, look at any message board of any PC game and you see the same stuff. They personally feel that they're a level above everyone and that everyone should bow before them because they have a PC.

Another case of generalization that can't possibly be true because it is way too simplistic. Essentially it's lazy to say something like this.

[v_ware]

Creating a thread like this will result in one of the comments below:



DARE NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS GAME!

OUR OPINION IS SUPERIOR!

EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS AND WILL BE PERFECTION!

PRAISE JEBUS AND BIOWARE!



or:



I AGREE!

THIS GAME IS CRAP!

OMFG, EVERYTHING THAT BIOWARE MAKES SUCKS!

I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!



or: (like a normal person)



I see what you mean, but for me thats not the case. But let's have some cake together anyway.