523 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Tleining wrote...

@ rhautanen
.. while still appealing to the old tactic-rpg crowd.

@ BobSmith101
single protagonist - Jade Empire, KotoR
fixed outfits for companions - Jade Empire
wheel - Alpha Protocol

oh look, Bioware is going back to the basics

Mass Effect has all those, makes it a better example unless you are purposely trying to not make it look like they did not "Mass Effected" Dragon Age that is.

Bioware did not do Alpha Protocol it's as bad as people saying they did PST.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 26 février 2011 - 07:46 .

[Dubya75]

LoK-y-Yo wrote...

the conversations is dumbed in the way that before you could choose for a response like 4 or 5 options usually and now it's been reduced as far as we have seen to 3. I don't know much about statistics, but there is a difference between the possibles outcomes from 4-5 options (and so on) than from 3

(make a tree with 3 and 5 points and from each "point" make another 3 or 4-5 points and do that again, count the difference of outcomes)

Completely inaccurate. You are speculating.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

LoK-y-Yo wrote...

I said as far as we have seen. But if they said so, when I see it I will change my mind about that. Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to the game

not trying to argue. i was merely trying to provide info which you may have not been privy to.

[Darkeus]

Drake Sigar wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...
How on God's green earth do you make up your mind about a game with at least 30 hours gameplay from a 40 minute demo of which half of it is narrative, thus leaving you with about 20 minutes of gameplay?
If you can explain that to be then I will be fully satisfied.

The same way I can make up my mind from reading a reviewer’s impressions? What do you suggest, thoroughly explore every piece of media and ignore the very services (demos and reviews) that are designed to help select the right products for me in this precarious economic time? Not only would I go bankrupt, but I’d have to devote my entire life to it.

Hmm, don't like actually you know..  Waiting for the full game and making an informed opinion?

Wow, just wow....

Or waiting for reviews when the game actually comes out?

Or not basing your opinion on old code that does not represent the full game....

[Yoshileon]

Darkeus wrote...

That is personal preference.  That is not required for you.  That is something you want.  In reality, that is just superfluous and not required to make a good game.  More options does not autmoatically mean better.

But it has NO, and let me repeat NO effect on gameplay or the outcome of the encounter. 

It doesn't matter what you WANT to do in your head.  We are talking abou if a game is dumbed down or not.  Just because a game does not cater to what YOU want to do in a game has nothing to do if it is dumbed down or not.

As we see and nobody has been able to disprove, the new system in DA2 does not dumb down conversation since it functions the same as DA:O, only in a different format.  The gameplay has not changed.  Your personal preference has nothing to do with that.

Sorry if my response was too offensive.
All I wanted to say:

Darkeus wrote...

rhautanen wrote...

The way the Warden says it really means nothing. You will only ever have two outcomes....

It means nothing to YOU. Some people are different than you, and it does mean something to them.

Boy, you missed that point completely.... 

I think rhautanen was trying to say that maybe it doesn't mean anything to you because u only care for the outcomes etc., but it might mean a lot for other people, and I believe i'm not alone with my statement.

[AkiKishi]

Darkeus wrote...
Hmm, don't like actually you know..  Waiting for the full game and making an informed opinion?

Wow, just wow....

Or waiting for reviews when the game actually comes out?

Or not basing your opinion on old code that does not represent the full game....

So in order to see if the game is crap you have to buy the game? Do you work undercover for EA marketing or something?

[Bigdoser]

Did you know that the conversation options in DAO led to the npc saying the exact same thing? From the demo I can't recall a time where a response led to the same exact response from the npc.

[Dubya75]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Darkeus wrote...
Hmm, don't like actually you know..  Waiting for the full game and making an informed opinion?

Wow, just wow....

Or waiting for reviews when the game actually comes out?

Or not basing your opinion on old code that does not represent the full game....

So in order to see if the game is crap you have to buy the game? Do you work undercover for EA marketing or something?

Wait for real people (not gaming sites) to comment on the game after having played it. It's free, it will appear here.

[Darkeus]

Yoshileon wrote...



I think rhautanen was trying to say that maybe it doesn't mean anything to you because u only care for the outcomes etc., but it might mean a lot for other people, and I believe i'm not alone with my statement.

But this does not make a game dumbed down.  What people want to do in their heads has nothing to do with actual gameplay or how the game really works behind the scenes. 

You may want to reply in some specific fashion but it has little effect on the actual outcome of the conversations.  If your words will, DA:O would tell you by saying (Persuade) or (intimidate) or (Cunning).

In fact, DA2 allows better responses since now every line of text will mean something different and have an effect on gameplay.  So in the game aspect of DA2, nothing has been dumbed down at all, in fact it may be more complex....

[rhautanen]

Darkeus has decided that his opinion is "right" and any differing opinion is wrong. It's probably futile to discuss it with him further.

[Dubya75]

Darkeus wrote...

Yoshileon wrote...



I think rhautanen was trying to say that maybe it doesn't mean anything to you because u only care for the outcomes etc., but it might mean a lot for other people, and I believe i'm not alone with my statement.

But this does not make a game dumbed down.  What people want to do in their heads has nothing to do with actual gameplay or how the game really works behind the scenes. 

You may want to reply in some specific fashion but it has little effect on the actual outcome of the conversations.  If your words will, DA:O would tell you by saying (Persuade) or (intimidate) or (Cunning).

In fact, DA2 allows better responses since now every line of text will mean something different and have an effect on gameplay.  So in the game aspect of DA2, nothing has been dumbed down at all, in fact it may be more complex....

I could not have said it better myself! Put that in your pipe, naysayers!

[marcusgs221]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Tleining wrote...

@ rhautanen
.. while still appealing to the old tactic-rpg crowd.

@ BobSmith101
single protagonist - Jade Empire, KotoR
fixed outfits for companions - Jade Empire
wheel - Alpha Protocol

oh look, Bioware is going back to the basics

Mass Effect has all those, makes it a better example unless you are purposely trying to not make it look like they did not "Mass Effected" Dragon Age that is.

Bioware did not do Alpha Protocol it's as bad as people saying they did PST.

all of the games you listed are way newer than what i would call the basics. DA2 while it very well may be a gerat game in its own right is much more like MA than BG (whice is "the basics")

[Darkeus]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Darkeus wrote...
Hmm, don't like actually you know..  Waiting for the full game and making an informed opinion?

Wow, just wow....

Or waiting for reviews when the game actually comes out?

Or not basing your opinion on old code that does not represent the full game....

So in order to see if the game is crap you have to buy the game? Do you work undercover for EA marketing or something?

Nope, I tend to pay attention player reviews.  Also the reason I have Gamefly....

And if I really want a game, I just buy it and play it myself....

Reviews are far from a good source, especially if they are mixed.

See how that works.  I wait until a FULL game is out before I make opinions.....  Try it, it works wonders...

[IssackHawkeFTW]

Bigdoser@ Do keep in mind those are begining choices, I am pretty sure later in the game, one choice could make the story line twist upside down.

[Dubya75]

rhautanen wrote...

Darkeus has decided that his opinion is "right" and any differing opinion is wrong. It's probably futile to discuss it with him further.

He may be the only one making any sense though.

[Darkeus]

rhautanen wrote...

Darkeus has decided that his opinion is "right" and any differing opinion is wrong. It's probably futile to discuss it with him further.

Sort of like how you guys think your opinion is right?  How DA2 sucks because you say so?  Give me a break...<_<

Lol, that is the pot calling the kettle black....

Please..

No, I just happen to have a little common sense and don't FREAK OUT over a demo and a game THAT ISN'T OUT YET!!!!

[Martanek]

rhautanen wrote...

People who accuses DA2 of being dumbed down are simply afraid of the changes.

That's what you have concluded? How? Sounds like a pretty simplistic dismissal of something you just don't happen to agree with. I find your conclusion to be dumbed down.

I do not think people are afraid of changes in general. But they are afraid of changes being made only for changes themselves. In other words, they are afraid some changes are unnecessary and for the worse, changing the way a game feels and plays. Judging only by the DA2 demo, Bioware made so many needless changes that the game felt hardly like DA:O to me. It really looks like DA2 has copied a lot from ME2 during its development process. Unfortunately, Bioware seems to have translated their already-watered-down ME2 – in certain areas – into the DA universe where they do not apparently fit and cause DA2 to feel different. Hopefully, ME3 goes in a different direction than Bioware's last work.

[IssackHawkeFTW]

This happens with every sequel. Because the game Is taken too a diffrent direction, riots everywhere.

I mean.....when devlopers dont change anything, they are called lazy, when they DO change something, riots break.

[AlanC9]

Well, looking at F4d3s' list, the things that strikes me is that a lot of those aren't simplification or trivialization. For instance, not having the top-down camera available may actually make the game harder to play They may very well be things you don't like, but that doesn't make the game simpler or more trivial to play.

The only way the dialog wheel makes things simpler is if the player doesn't really care what Hawke is saying, but a player who feels this way doesn't really have to read the responses in previous Bio games either. You could get all the way to the Temple Summit in KotOR and pick LS choices all the way just by always picking the top choice. We know people did this because they complained about it when Bio suddenly reversed the order in a certain dialog there.

As for weapon penetration, that was removed because the DAO implementation failed. You were always better off going with damage anyway because of item scaling.

[Dubya75]

Darkeus wrote...

rhautanen wrote...

Darkeus has decided that his opinion is "right" and any differing opinion is wrong. It's probably futile to discuss it with him further.

Sort of like how you guys think your opinion is right?  How DA2 sucks because you say so?  Give me a break...<_<

Lol, that is the pot calling the kettle black....

Please..

No, I just happen to have a little common sense and don't FREAK OUT over a demo and a game THAT ISN'T OUT YET!!!!

Dude, I want to hang out with you! 

[Yoshileon]

Darkeus wrote...

In fact, DA2 allows better responses since now every line of text will mean something different and have an effect on gameplay.  So in the game aspect of DA2, nothing has been dumbed down at all, in fact it may be more complex....

That really made me reconsider my opinion... I hope you're right about the complexity...
Maybe we had more options in DA:O, but less responses...

I can't wait anymore to try the full game.
I think i go now and raid the BW HQ

and... i hope it will run better on my pc than the demo did...
with everything maxed out, my gtx460 almost cried under the weight...

[Tleining]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Tleining wrote...

@ rhautanen
.. while still appealing to the old tactic-rpg crowd.

@ BobSmith101
single protagonist - Jade Empire, KotoR
fixed outfits for companions - Jade Empire
wheel - Alpha Protocol

oh look, Bioware is going back to the basics

Mass Effect has all those, makes it a better example unless you are purposely trying to not make it look like they did not "Mass Effected" Dragon Age that is.

Bioware did not do Alpha Protocol it's as bad as people saying they did PST.

while you are not trying to make it look as if they did? Mass Effect wasn't the only game that had those. But somehow, using something that has been used in Mass Effect, mass-effects-DragonAge. It couldn't just mean that those are good ideas, it couldn't mean, that the devs are able to keep the original DA feeling intact, while spicing it up a bit with new things. It has to be something bad.

I know, that Bioware didn't create Alpha Protocol, but a lot of people want Bioware to make a game more like that, and look, something that was used there is used here, yet it's bad, because it was in Mass Effect.

Is there any way, Bioware can win here? Should they have created the same game with a different story again? PiranhaBytes/Pluto13 did that, sadly, i don't think they will exist much longer.

[Drake Sigar]

I give up, you two are three fries short of a happy meal. All I hear these past weeks is “wait for the demo, wait for the demo” and now those chants have switched to “wait for the full game.” I can’t afford to buy every video game I have a passing interest in, I have not replaced my toilet roll with hundred dollar bills. If the demo fails to convince me to buy the full game, that’s THEIR failure. It’s the entire point of a demo!

[Darkeus]

Yoshileon wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

In fact, DA2 allows better responses since now every line of text will mean something different and have an effect on gameplay.  So in the game aspect of DA2, nothing has been dumbed down at all, in fact it may be more complex....

That really made me reconsider my opinion... I hope you're right about the complexity...
Maybe we had more options in DA:O, but less responses...

I can't wait anymore to try the full game.
I think i go now and raid the BW HQ

and... i hope it will run better on my pc than the demo did...
with everything maxed out, my gtx460 almost cried under the weight...

Yeah, that poor demo did not run good on my computer either, and I can easily match the recommended specs.

I just need a DirectX 11 video card now!!!

And sorry if I came off a little hostile.  I am just really tired of naysayers that are all doom and gloom about a game that has not been released.  

They sound like teh Chasind guy in Lothering.  I guess  I always tell him to shut the hell up too!  :happy:

I have concerns about some aspects of teh game, I am not especially keen on playing in one city for example.

But I cannot make a true statement about the game until it is released and I have played it.  

[rhautanen]

Sort of like how you guys think your opinion is right? How DA2 sucks because you say so? Give me a break

I haven't told you my opinion is "right". I've told you my opinion is different than yours. To assume you know what I "think" is pretty arrogant indeed. Plus, I never said DA2 sucks. That is a lie. I was just giving my opinion who how DA2 might be dumbed down, or why others might be saying DA2 is dumbed down. You seem to have filled in a lot of other stuff with your imagination.

Modifié par rhautanen, 26 février 2011 - 08:08 .