278 réponses à ce sujet

[heretica]

There is a huge difference between being a coward and being a survivor. The situation at Ostagar was bad, they were overrun.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Its kind of hard to fight the ENTIRE darkspawn horde by yourself.

This is the right answer. The person who created this topic/thread is an idoit. Hawke is not Superman. He can't fight the entire Darkspawn horde by himself.

[TwistedComplex]

Typical Forum Sycophant wrote...

he should have died like a real man at the whims of one of Loghains petty schemes!

Irionically enough to OPs point, Loghain ran to save his men

[TwistedComplex]

There's no shame in running from a hopeless situation

George Washington ran, retreated and scurried away in many fights. But he endured. That's what matters

[0x30A88]

Not even the greatest hero can stand against the horde that took Lothering.

[Suron]

Running away from certain death is anything BUT Cowardly. Staying to fight is STUPIDITY...

do you pay attention to anything? Did you think AT ALL before actually coming to that conclusion?

Any sign of intelligence would show that staying to fight an army (did you even play DA:O?? did you not pay attention to the SIZE of that army?) especially one that wiped out so many Grey Wardens and the Kings army (minus the ones the coward Loghain withdrew) is pure, unadultered, idiocy.

So no. He was, in FACT, NOT a coward. More like smart. Which is more then anyone can say if they actually view him fleeing, especially WITH HIS FAMILY no less, as cowardly.

Staying in Lothering to fight would have been the dumbest thing he could have done.

but thanks for playing.

overall

2/10 - for lack of actual forethought before posting.

Modifié par Suron, 27 février 2011 - 11:31 .

[Arttis]

AustinKain wrote...

This is not a bashing post just a realization i came to about 10 mins ago.
The Champion of Kirkwall started out running away from a fight.  He/she was at or near Ostagar and decided to leave running ans screaming away.  True it may have been to save the family, but still he/she ran.

So i guess after getting to Kirkwall the champion was faced with a life changing moment and decided to stand and fight.  It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Maybe its once the remaining members of family are safe its time to prove you are not really a coward.

Anyway not bashing the game just a thought i had, and was wondering if anyone else had come to realize this or even think about it.

Just gonna say there are a ton of 5-6 month old threads about hawke being a coward.

[Esbatty]

[Suron]

AustinKain wrote...

Zerakus wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

So.. Wynne fled too, then? Before the battle? I find that unlikely.

That is another plot hole that has bugged the hell out of me about origins. It makes no sense how she survived when there according to the story were NO survivors.

No where did it say there were stragglers of nondarkspawn variety.

you don't listen (or read) very well do you?

you've been proven wrong MORE THEN ONCE.

Morrigan STATES...when you talk to her..and ask about survivors..that there WERE STRAGLERS.

you.

are.

wrong.

there were survivors (other then the Wardens and Wynne)

FACT.

[Sejborg]

Yes. Fight and you may die. Run and you will live... at least awhile.

And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance to come back here as young men, and tell our enemies that they make take our lives, but they will never take our freedom!

[Suron]

Sejborg wrote...

Yes. Fight and you may die. Run and you will live... at least awhile.

And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance to come back here as young men, and tell our enemies that they make take our lives, but they will never take our freedom!

great movie that fell apart towards the end and starred a complete freak.

[Jakeul200493]

Lothering and Ostagar were lost causes. Better to run and fight another day than die with everyone else

[Ashaman X]

Esbatty wrote...

Only problem is that Zaeed has a track record of being the only one to make it out alive of situations. When he leads, all his team mates die, usually in a messy way. Still, the thought of Zaeed at Ostagar gives me this warm sort of evil smile. Old bugger could really deal out some damage.

[Sejborg]

Suron wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Yes. Fight and you may die. Run and you will live... at least awhile.

And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance to come back here as young men, and tell our enemies that they make take our lives, but they will never take our freedom!

great movie that fell apart towards the end and starred a complete freak.

You know when you get old in life things get taken from you. That's part of life.But, you only learn that when you start losing stuff. You find out that life is just a game of inches. So is war. Because in either game life or war the margin for error is so small. I mean one half step too late or to early you don't quite make it. One half second too slow or too fast and you don't quite kill it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They are in every break of the game every minute, every second.

On this side, we fight for that inch. In this country, we tear ourselves, and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We CLAW with our finger nails for that inch. Cause we know when we add up all those inches that's going to make the ****ing difference between WINNING and LOSING. Between LIVING and DYING!! 

I'll tell you this in any fight it is the guy who is willing to die who is going to win that inch. And I know if I am going to have any life anymore it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch because that is what LIVING is. The six inches in front of your face. 

Now I can't make you do it. You gotta look at the guy next to you. Look into his eyes. Now I think you are going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. You are going to see a guy who will sacrifice himself for Fereldan. Because he knows when it comes down to it, you are gonna do the same thing for him.

That's a country, gentlemen and either we heal now, as a country, or we will die as individuals. That's war guys. That's all it is.
Now, whattaya gonna do?

Modifié par Sejborg, 27 février 2011 - 12:04 .

[Suron]

Sejborg wrote...

Suron wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Yes. Fight and you may die. Run and you will live... at least awhile.

And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance to come back here as young men, and tell our enemies that they make take our lives, but they will never take our freedom!

great movie that fell apart towards the end and starred a complete freak.

You know when you get old in life things get taken from you. That's part of life.But, you only learn that when you start losing stuff. You find out that life is just a game of inches. So is war. Because in either game life or war the margin for error is so small. I mean one half step too late or to early you don't quite make it. One half second too slow or too fast and you don't quite kill it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They are in ever break of the game every minute, every second.

On this side, we fight for that inch. On this team, we tear ourselves, and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We CLAW with our finger nails for that inch. Cause we know when we add up all those inches that's going to make the ****ing difference between WINNING and LOSING. Between LIVING and DYING!! 

I'll tell you this in any fight it is the guy who is willing to die who is going to win that inch. And I know if I am going to have any life anymore it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch because that is what LIVING is. The six inches in front of your face. 

Now I can't make you do it. You gotta look at the guy next to you. Look into his eyes. Now I think you are going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. You are going to see a guy who will sacrifice himself for Fereldan. Because he knows when it comes down to it, you are gonna do the same thing for him.

That's a country, gentlemen and either we heal now, as a country, or we will die as individuals. That's war guys. That's all it is.
Now, whattaya gonna do?

put you on ignore and not bother with someone that can't seem to add anything original to a post but quotes someone else said in a movie?

or just plain make this my last response to you lol.

and you're quoting me makes no sense..considering your "reply" had nothing to do with what I said and was just another long quote.

ciao

[Sejborg]

Suron wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Suron wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Yes. Fight and you may die. Run and you will live... at least awhile.

And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance to come back here as young men, and tell our enemies that they make take our lives, but they will never take our freedom!

great movie that fell apart towards the end and starred a complete freak.

You know when you get old in life things get taken from you. That's part of life.But, you only learn that when you start losing stuff. You find out that life is just a game of inches. So is war. Because in either game life or war the margin for error is so small. I mean one half step too late or to early you don't quite make it. One half second too slow or too fast and you don't quite kill it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They are in ever break of the game every minute, every second.

On this side, we fight for that inch. On this team, we tear ourselves, and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We CLAW with our finger nails for that inch. Cause we know when we add up all those inches that's going to make the ****ing difference between WINNING and LOSING. Between LIVING and DYING!! 

I'll tell you this in any fight it is the guy who is willing to die who is going to win that inch. And I know if I am going to have any life anymore it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch because that is what LIVING is. The six inches in front of your face. 

Now I can't make you do it. You gotta look at the guy next to you. Look into his eyes. Now I think you are going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. You are going to see a guy who will sacrifice himself for Fereldan. Because he knows when it comes down to it, you are gonna do the same thing for him.

That's a country, gentlemen and either we heal now, as a country, or we will die as individuals. That's war guys. That's all it is.
Now, whattaya gonna do?

put you on ignore and not bother with someone that can't seem to add anything original to a post but quotes someone else said in a movie?

or just plain make this my last response to you lol.

and you're quoting me makes no sense..considering your "reply" had nothing to do with what I said and was just another long quote.

ciao

Haha. Cheer up kiddo. I am just making fun. Too bad you have to take everything so seriously. 

[Zies]

Survival is everything. It is not cowardice to escape from a horde of darkspawn when it is just you, your mum, your sister, and your big eared brother. If Duncan couldn't stop the Maker damned horde by himself, Hawke has no chance. If survival means running, then you run.

[Starfoxea]

Let's see. For any soldier things would go like that:

A) Orders take priority
Well, the king is dead, the army is disbanded, Loghain has betrayed... No one is left to give any order... so you switch to B

Mission objective takes priority
So the objective was to defeat and repel the darkspawn at Ostagar... Well that clearly failed because of one betrayer and after his betrayal there's no way to achieve the objective anymore as his troops were supposed to be the winning factor... So you switch to C

C) Survive at all cost
A dead soldier (no matter how heroic was his death) is just that... dead. He cannot fight anymore hence is of no use to anyone. In every army I know of, survival is definitely a very important factor as long as it doesn't conflict with A and B

So no, Hawke didn't betray he merely applied the soldier manual. No one was here to give him orders anymore, the mission was FUBAR he just applied point C and tried to not get killed.

And there was definitely survivors after the battle at Ostagar. Just go ask Wynne during the "Broken Circle" quest. She will tell you that after the battle she stayed to help the wounded (plural). Uldred was also at Ostagar, by the way.

Modifié par Starfoxea, 27 février 2011 - 01:03 .

[Schmoodla]

I only know I wouldn't just stand there waiting for a friggin genlock to kill me. I would run, so would you - it's an instinct if anything. It was a good decision to run, he couldn't possibly beat the horde by himself. Plus, if he didn't run, you wouldn't have DA2 now.

[Takeva_]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Its kind of hard to fight the ENTIRE darkspawn horde by yourself.

This is the right answer. The person who created this topic/thread is an idoit. Hawke is not Superman. He can't fight the entire Darkspawn horde by himself.

+ trying to keep your family alive. Oh yea thats a coward.

A real coward would have just let their family be taken by the darkspawn while they tried to escape. Lol wish we did have that option.

Oh wait I did let the Ogre kill Bethany. Sorry Mama Hawke

[TheRevanchist]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment...

<br />
Two apostates in king's regiment, near Wynne and all?

Actually Bethany does not go for that very reason...if Hawke is a mage then only Carver goes to Ostagar.

[F1relizard]

Perhaps the death of Hawke's sibling brought about a change in his/her personality? The scene in the demo seemed a tad wooden in its presentation, but it didn't show the turmoil inside Hawke that probably afflicted him/her on his trip to Kirkwall. Add in the events that will probably come about as a result of the little 'delivery' for Flemeth and we can probably see why Hawke would stop running. Or he could just be tired of running...Thing is we really can't see what it is that makes him/her stop without having more than an hour long demo and some clues from the developers themselves.

[earl of the north]

Well, Hawke is either......

An apostate mage who has no business going anywhere near the Royal Army at Ostagar, unless he/she wants to be killed or imprisoned.

Or he/she is a warrior/rogue who survived the battle as part of the King's regiment (the part of the army that was betrayed and destroyed by Loghain), saw his King die and then spent a month struggling back to Lothering (probably running, hiding and fighting when necessary), found his/her family in Lothering had been abandoned to the horde and then had to keep his/her family alive, while getting them out of the path of an unstoppable horde.....while avoiding bandits, Loghain's men (who will imprison/kill him and/or Carver as a deserter), Templars (who will imprison/kill  him/her and/or Bethany) and the horde itself.

After that I'd say screw Ferelden as well......why exactly would Hawke feel any loyalty to people who he/she has spent their entire life hiding from, just seen betray their king and the grey wardens and had apparently doomed Ferelden anyway.

Modifié par earl of the north, 27 février 2011 - 03:11 .

[war4n0th1n9]

AustinKain wrote...

This is not a bashing post just a realization i came to about 10 mins ago.
The Champion of Kirkwall started out running away from a fight.  He/she was at or near Ostagar and decided to leave running ans screaming away.  True it may have been to save the family, but still he/she ran.

So i guess after getting to Kirkwall the champion was faced with a life changing moment and decided to stand and fight.  It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Maybe its once the remaining members of family are safe its time to prove you are not really a coward.

Anyway not bashing the game just a thought i had, and was wondering if anyone else had come to realize this or even think about it.

Easy conclusion to come to, but using family as an excuse? Just unacceptable.
What I just don't understand is how this coward's storyline supposed to appeal to the fans? Certainly doesn't to me, and more so he becomes a champion! Wow what does that mean? Play the game to find out... to be honest I'll just sit this one out. Those who will play enjoy hopefully this one won't have bugs that will never get fixed.

[SnipingNewb]

Wow looks like the OP wanted to get a discusson going on and everyone then inturn started flaming him/her.

I can see where the OP is coming from, but i also can see that running away is something that most would do in that situation.

Just think there should be alot of bans and warnings for all the personal attacks you people made on OP.