278 réponses à ce sujet

[Wevyc]

Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.

[Melra]

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

Da Cousland bro says hi. You aren't making much sense right now. 

[Tleining]

Carver isn't an apostate, neither is non-mage Hawke. Bethany and Mage-Hawke weren't at Ostagar.



@ AustinKain

uh, Return to Ostagar? You meet someone else who survived Ostagar. There were survivors, just not many.

[elfdwarf]

battling ogre is brave but no man can fight army of darkspawn without dying from taint

[upsettingshorts]

makalathbonagin wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Discretion is the better part of valor.

this.... wait , what?

It's Shakespeare. 

[TheDarkBrotherhood]

You mean just like i(the warden) ran away from the circle of magi to join the grey wardens because i helped jowan and was about to be punished?

[Blastback]

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

It was stated that there were straglers.  Who survived.  Even if it was a retcon, it does not destroy Origins Story. 

[JamesX]

There is cowardly and there is stupidity. If you don't run from an army of million, when you have no real reason stay, you are definitely brave but also a moron.

Wevyc wrote...

Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.

History is full of people who got glory for dying  Just look at Charistianity.  If your goal is to leave a legacy, death is a very very quick way to achieve it.  It only has no use if your only goal is to survive to enjoy it.

Modifié par JamesX, 26 février 2011 - 08:38 .

[Cless Godhard]

Becoming a champion means sacrifces, i have a feeling that a companion will die and that we will not be able to change it (not the sibling).

[Aesieru]

elfdwarf wrote...

battling ogre is brave but no man can fight army of darkspawn without dying from taint

Unless you don't get slashed and killed, and not everyone contracts the taint immediately.

[blubbolo]

AustinKain wrote...


No the Human Noble origin was FORCED to become a warden.  All origins were forced to be Wardens even if your character didnt want to.  Then again the game would have been real short if you could have actually denied the invitation to become a warden.


The Champion from what we have seen/ been told has run on his/her own or at the begging of the family we still dont know yet.

his point was that in origins u run and leave your mom and dad there.

[Zerakus]

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

So.. Wynne fled too, then? Before the battle? I find that unlikely.

[Blastback]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

makalathbonagin wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Discretion is the better part of valor.

this.... wait , what?

It's Shakespeare. 

Anyone remember in BG1?  When Khalid paniced?

"Better part of valor! Better part of valor!"

[AkiKishi]

blubbolo wrote...

his point was that in origins u run and leave your mom and dad there.

They make you leave. You can argue you want to stay though so you are not a coward.

Blastback wrote...

Anyone remember in BG1?  When Khalid paniced?

"Better part of valor! Better part of valor!"

Whinny little SOB hot wife though

Modifié par BobSmith101, 26 février 2011 - 08:40 .

[AustinKain]

Tleining wrote...

Carver isn't an apostate, neither is non-mage Hawke. Bethany and Mage-Hawke weren't at Ostagar.

@ AustinKain
uh, Return to Ostagar? You meet someone else who survived Ostagar. There were survivors, just not many.

That is one guy who ran before the battle began thats why he was tracked down. Go back and listen to his reasoning. He admitted he was a coward for running away before the battle even began. So he was not actually at Ostagar when the battle began.

Which means for anyone to have survived Ostagar they would have had to flee before the battle. As i said the story in Origins states that none survived excpet for the wardens.  We cant have it both ways. I think this may have just been a story/plot oversight in the writing which happens from time to time and i am ok with it. As i love the demo and will love DA2 i just happen to notice little things like this from time to time.

[MyKingdomCold]

TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...

You mean just like i(the warden) ran away from the circle of magi to join the grey wardens because i helped jowan and was about to be punished?

Not really, since he was conscripted into the Grey Wardens. now, if he/she ran from Duncan, that would be the same

[Insom]

AustinKain wrote...

Which means for anyone to have survived Ostagar they would have had to flee before the battle. As i said the story in Origins states that none survived excpet for the wardens.  We cant have it both ways. I think this may have just been a story/plot oversight in the writing which happens from time to time and i am ok with it. As i love the demo and will love DA2 i just happen to notice little things like this from time to time.

When you talk to Morrigan after the battle she says some stragglers survived and that they could be rescued if you were foolish and ran into the bulk of the horde. Now Hawke and Carver are stragglers and they're in the bulk of the horde when DA2 begins.

[AustinKain]

Zerakus wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

So.. Wynne fled too, then? Before the battle? I find that unlikely.

That is another plot hole that has bugged the hell out of me about origins. It makes no sense how she survived when there according to the story were NO survivors.

No where did it say there were stragglers of nondarkspawn variety.

[Duncan Anderson]

AustinKain wrote...


Which means for anyone to have survived Ostagar they would have had to flee before the battle. As i said the story in Origins states that none survived excpet for the wardens.  We cant have it both ways. I think this may have just been a story/plot oversight in the writing which happens from time to time and i am ok with it. As i love the demo and will love DA2 i just happen to notice little things like this from time to time.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. when you first wake up after Ostagar Morrigan tells you that that the survivors have moved on apart from some stragglers.

[Blastback]

Ask Morrigan if there were other survivors. "Only stragglers, who are long gone"

[Lethys1]

AustinKain wrote...

This is not a bashing post just a realization i came to about 10 mins ago.
The Champion of Kirkwall started out running away from a fight.  He/she was at or near Ostagar and decided to leave running ans screaming away.  True it may have been to save the family, but still he/she ran.

So i guess after getting to Kirkwall the champion was faced with a life changing moment and decided to stand and fight.  It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Maybe its once the remaining members of family are safe its time to prove you are not really a coward.

Anyway not bashing the game just a thought i had, and was wondering if anyone else had come to realize this or even think about it.

This is a pretty dumb post honestly, can't fight an army with 3 people and your mom.

[Eveangaline]

For one thing you're ignoring mage but that's not the point. She made the decision that she wouldn't die when the battle became hopeless. THere's nothing cowardly about not facing certain death pointlessly.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

If you don't do anything like attack Templars randomly or run from them, and you don't give any indication that you're an Apostate, and you don't do apostate spells... and don't dress like a witch of the wilds...

Then why in the demo?...

And actually I would disagree in the basic way, cause, mages are pretty rare.

There were only what, seven mages from circle send to Ostagar? They were actually counted, Duncan says so.

[Zerakus]

AustinKain wrote...

Tleining wrote...

Carver isn't an apostate, neither is non-mage Hawke. Bethany and Mage-Hawke weren't at Ostagar.

@ AustinKain
uh, Return to Ostagar? You meet someone else who survived Ostagar. There were survivors, just not many.

That is one guy who ran before the battle began thats why he was tracked down. Go back and listen to his reasoning. He admitted he was a coward for running away before the battle even began. So he was not actually at Ostagar when the battle began.

Which means for anyone to have survived Ostagar they would have had to flee before the battle. As i said the story in Origins states that none survived excpet for the wardens.  We cant have it both ways. I think this may have just been a story/plot oversight in the writing which happens from time to time and i am ok with it. As i love the demo and will love DA2 i just happen to notice little things like this from time to time.

Apart from Wynne, you meet an arls son in Howe's mansion who knew someone who had been there., aswell as the madman in the same cellar, and Uldred. Morrigan also mentions other survivors, through not many, if I recall.

[AtreiyaN7]

It's not cowardice to try to save your family in my opinion. It's also foolish and stupid to throw your life away on what is clearly a lost cause. There was no hope for Lothering, and Hawke's family didn't owe a bunch of people who would probably have happily betrayed them to the Templars (if they ever found out about the apostate mages in the family) much of anything.