278 réponses à ce sujet

[Aesieru]

Well she's a mage... they usually stand pretty far back, she had the Templar guarding her, a spirit in her, and essentially has been pretty powerful.



It's also possible that there's some sort of teleportation going on with circles and all that.

[Ryzaki]

@the OP

That's why Hawke will never be better than Commader Shepard. 

Sorry sorry I can't resist posting this vid.  

Seriously though the guy is one person against an army and he's not Shepard. What did you think he was going to do? 

[Nomarch]

AustinKain wrote...

Tleining wrote...

Carver isn't an apostate, neither is non-mage Hawke. Bethany and Mage-Hawke weren't at Ostagar.

@ AustinKain
uh, Return to Ostagar? You meet someone else who survived Ostagar. There were survivors, just not many.

That is one guy who ran before the battle began thats why he was tracked down. Go back and listen to his reasoning. He admitted he was a coward for running away before the battle even began. So he was not actually at Ostagar when the battle began.

Which means for anyone to have survived Ostagar they would have had to flee before the battle. As i said the story in Origins states that none survived excpet for the wardens.  We cant have it both ways. I think this may have just been a story/plot oversight in the writing which happens from time to time and i am ok with it. As i love the demo and will love DA2 i just happen to notice little things like this from time to time.

In DAO they flat out say that the older brother of the Human Noble Warden was missing and presumed dead after the battle, but he turns up alive and well in the epilogue.  There were definitely survivors.  And Carver and non-Mage Hawke were obviously among them.  At that point there is no army, no defense, and they have no immunity to the Taint, so packing up with the family and trying to get out isn't cowardice or courage or anything but common sense.

[TheDarkBrotherhood]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

TheDarkBrotherhood wrote...

You mean just like i(the warden) ran away from the circle of magi to join the grey wardens because i helped jowan and was about to be punished?

Not really, since he was conscripted into the Grey Wardens. now, if he/she ran from Duncan, that would be the same

Not really, Duncan was no threat to me, why would i run away from him, before Duncan asked me to join him, they said they were going to punish me for helping jowan, but when Duncan asked me to join him, i gladly did, because if i didn't, i would've been punished, so i "ran" away from that punishment.

Modifié par TheDarkBrotherhood, 26 février 2011 - 08:54 .

[ArawnNox]

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

Um, you run into plenty of people who survived Ostagar over the course of Origins. Granted, most were in the regiment(s) that Loghain pulled from the battle, but theres nothing saying that Hawke and/or Carver werent in that.

And speaking of. If you're a mage, you didnt go to Ostagar, in the first place, only Carver.

[MyKingdomCold]

on second thought I don't think Hawke is a coward. if you want an example of a coward, look at Ser Jory

[Captain Iglo]

How can a man be coward who decides, in the face of a brutal invasion, to get his family to safety.

He is doing the one thing that every man should do in such a situation.

Edit: yes I know it could also be a she

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 26 février 2011 - 08:48 .

[ReallyRue]

AustinKain wrote...

This is not a bashing post just a realization i came to about 10 mins ago.
The Champion of Kirkwall started out running away from a fight.  He/she was at or near Ostagar and decided to leave running ans screaming away.  True it may have been to save the family, but still he/she ran.

So i guess after getting to Kirkwall the champion was faced with a life changing moment and decided to stand and fight.  It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Maybe its once the remaining members of family are safe its time to prove you are not really a coward.

Anyway not bashing the game just a thought i had, and was wondering if anyone else had come to realize this or even think about it.

A dead hero to Lothering. If Hawke stayed behind to defend Lothering, they'd have died defending it, and what would be the point of that? And especially if it was a mageHawke. Perhaps saving Lothering - somehow - just to get carted off to the tower or run through for revealing your magic.

[Cyanide Disaster]

Zerakus wrote...

Apart from Wynne, you meet an arls son in Howe's mansion who knew someone who had been there., aswell as the madman in the same cellar, and Uldred. Morrigan also mentions other survivors, through not many, if I recall.

^ This.

[Sabresandiego]

Being smart is not being a coward. Its being smart.

[drahelvete]

The battle was already lost? Was Musashi a coward for suriviving the Battle of Sekigahara, despite being on the losing side?

[Alodar]

AustinKain wrote...

Tleining wrote...

Carver isn't an apostate, neither is non-mage Hawke. Bethany and Mage-Hawke weren't at Ostagar.

@ AustinKain
uh, Return to Ostagar? You meet someone else who survived Ostagar. There were survivors, just not many.

That is one guy who ran before the battle began thats why he was tracked down. Go back and listen to his reasoning. He admitted he was a coward for running away before the battle even began. So he was not actually at Ostagar when the battle began.

Which means for anyone to have survived Ostagar they would have had to flee before the battle. As i said the story in Origins states that none survived excpet for the wardens.  We cant have it both ways. I think this may have just been a story/plot oversight in the writing which happens from time to time and i am ok with it. As i love the demo and will love DA2 i just happen to notice little things like this from time to time.

And who said that none survived.
If memory serves that information was provided by Morrigan/Flemeth.
Perhaps they weren't entirely honest  and had another plan for the Warden that didn't involve him rushing back to rescue stragglers?


Alodar

[AustinKain]

Everyone is missing the point. How many times did someone say that there were no surviors in Ostagar only to be told later there were.



There are plot holes in the story(ies).



All i am say is that the Champion fled and even said so. In war doesnt fleeing make one a coward and a traitor?

[kaiki01]

AustinKain wrote...

This is not a bashing post just a realization i came to about 10 mins ago.
The Champion of Kirkwall started out running away from a fight.  He/she was at or near Ostagar and decided to leave running ans screaming away.  True it may have been to save the family, but still he/she ran.

So i guess after getting to Kirkwall the champion was faced with a life changing moment and decided to stand and fight.  It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Maybe its once the remaining members of family are safe its time to prove you are not really a coward.

Anyway not bashing the game just a thought i had, and was wondering if anyone else had come to realize this or even think about it.

Running from a fight is not the same as leaving the battlefield after your army is destroyed.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Was Musashi a coward for suriviving the Battle of Sekigahara, despite being on the losing side?

Were many other people standing for the completely lost cause and die (or win) dumb, then?



It seems to me people here mostly care only about themselves, while people from diffirent times and situations actually thought twas a noble thing to die for someone else, like their Senior (King), for example.

[Cless Godhard]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

on second thought I don't think Hawke is a coward. if you want an example of a coward, look at Ser Jory

I dont blame Jory for being scared, he joined a order to fight the Blight, then he is told he must do a ritual with a low % of survivel...... with his family back at home waiting for him.. wouldnt you chicken out?

I will be honest, i would have chicken out aswell.

[AkiKishi]

Fleeing the field makes you a coward reasons are just excuses.

[Blastback]

AustinKain wrote...

Everyone is missing the point. How many times did someone say that there were no surviors in Ostagar only to be told later there were.

There are plot holes in the story(ies).

All i am say is that the Champion fled and even said so. In war doesnt fleeing make one a coward and a traitor?

Where did it say that there were no survivors?  Where is that explicitly spelled out? 

And fleeing a lost cause isn't cowardice.  Could Hawke be viewed as betraying Ferelden by running? sure.  But that doesn't mean s/he is a coward.

[Ziggeh]

Not singlehandedly trying to fight an army of monsters, what a pansy.

[MyKingdomCold]

well, Jory was a coward from the beginning. When you meet that soldier on the ground when you first enter the Wilds, he's like there are too many of them! Wahh! Waah!

[Alodar]

AustinKain wrote...

Everyone is missing the point. How many times did someone say that there were no surviors in Ostagar only to be told later there were.

But how could anyone know?
The only people actually there that we are sure of are Flemeth and Morrigan.
As stated they don't want are Warden's going back and finding stragglers, so anything they say is suspect.
Anyone else providing that information wasn't there and either assumed or made it up.

Alodar

[Captain Iglo]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Fleeing the field makes you a coward reasons are just excuses.

Storming alone into the enemy army while your King and fellow soldiers are already dead makes you an idiot, reasons are just excuses.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 26 février 2011 - 08:57 .

[fighterchick]

AustinKain wrote...

Everyone is missing the point. How many times did someone say that there were no surviors in Ostagar only to be told later there were.

There are plot holes in the story(ies).

All i am say is that the Champion fled and even said so. In war doesnt fleeing make one a coward and a traitor?

No, we're not missing the point.  Most people that probably said there were no survivors at Ostagar were not there, so they probably just assumed everyone died.  Regardless, it doesn't matter.  The people who actually were there, Wynne, Flemeth, and Morrigan tell you that there are survivors.  Who are you going to believe?  The people that could actually witness this, or the people that heard it was a massacre?

[Cyanide Disaster]

AustinKain wrote...

Everyone is missing the point. How many times did someone say that there were no surviors in Ostagar only to be told later there were.

There are plot holes in the story(ies).

All i am say is that the Champion fled and even said so. In war doesnt fleeing make one a coward and a traitor?

In the words of my father:
"Run, run away, live to fight another day."
A good warrior knows when to flee.

[Tleining]

AustinKain wrote...

That is one guy who ran before the battle began thats why he was tracked down. Go back and listen to his reasoning. He admitted he was a coward for running away before the battle even began. So he was not actually at Ostagar when the battle began.

Which means for anyone to have survived Ostagar they would have had to flee before the battle. As i said the story in Origins states that none survived excpet for the wardens.  We cant have it both ways. I think this may have just been a story/plot oversight in the writing which happens from time to time and i am ok with it. As i love the demo and will love DA2 i just happen to notice little things like this from time to time.

uh, i just went back, your Warden asks: "You deserted?", Alistair comments, that most people think the same of you two, and then Elric tells you, that he "fled the battlefield, when Loghain betrayed us". He admits to abandoning his men and his friend (Cailan). But he didn't flee before the battle.