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The Champion started as a coward.


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#101
Captain Iglo

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BobSmith101 wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...

Storming alone into the enemy army while your King and fellow soldiers are already dead makes you an idiot, reasons are just excuses.


Dead idiot or live coward take your pick.


I take the coward so I could at least have the chance to guarantee the safety of my family, maybe even the entire village if Im fast.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 26 février 2011 - 09:07 .


#102
PinkShoes

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You dont seem to be quoting the comments that you cant pick at.

#103
Perfect-Kenshin

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Melrache wrote...

Because one man against whole blight would've made such a big difference, when even a Grey Warden needs a huge army? It's better to run away to fight another day and it's not cowardice.

Huh? In one playthrough, my Grey Warden solo'd the entire darkspawn army AND the Archdemon. In other playthroughs, I only had three people with me. Obviously, the darkspawn aren't that tough.

#104
alaska the 1st

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Vengeful Nature wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Running from hopeless odds is not cowardice. There's a difference between recognizing impossible odds and letting fear constantly dominate your actions.

Unless you mean the very idea of not wanting to die means you are a coward. Then I guess we are all cowards.

Remember not to use health potions, as that would fearing having to die due to the possibility of taking more damage. :)

Itkovian


Hardly hopeless odds. Warden managed fine, didn't he? And Hawke is supposed to be more powerful, enough to change the world somehow.

The warden was as good as dead until dragon lady swooped in and carryed him off.

#105
AlexXIV

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Vengeful Nature wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Running from hopeless odds is not cowardice. There's a difference between recognizing impossible odds and letting fear constantly dominate your actions.

Unless you mean the very idea of not wanting to die means you are a coward. Then I guess we are all cowards.

Remember not to use health potions, as that would fearing having to die due to the possibility of taking more damage. :)

Itkovian


Hardly hopeless odds. Warden managed fine, didn't he? And Hawke is supposed to be more powerful, enough to change the world somehow.

At this point it was hopeless for the Hawkes. The Warden didn't stay in Lothering to defend it either, remember?

#106
TheCreeper

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Keep in mind Mage Hawke was not at the battle, so mage hawke is certainly not a coward.

#107
Blastback

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Vengeful Nature wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Running from hopeless odds is not cowardice. There's a difference between recognizing impossible odds and letting fear constantly dominate your actions.

Unless you mean the very idea of not wanting to die means you are a coward. Then I guess we are all cowards.

Remember not to use health potions, as that would fearing having to die due to the possibility of taking more damage. :)

Itkovian


Hardly hopeless odds. Warden managed fine, didn't he? And Hawke is supposed to be more powerful, enough to change the world somehow.

One, the warden was in a better position.  The Warden was a Grey Warden, on of the only people who could actually kill the Archdemon.  The warden had access to treaties demanding the alliegence of others to help him fight. 

Hawke is a commoner, who rises to power in a forign city.  Where his family has historical connections.  Hawke doesn't get to Kirkwall and instantly take over.  Ten year period remember?

#108
Beerfish

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In the famous words of Khalid (or was it Xan?) 'Better part of valor! Better part of valor!"

Hawkes default name btw is really Ser Robin.

Ser Robin Hawke

Modifié par Beerfish, 26 février 2011 - 09:11 .


#109
Raraptor

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If anything, Loghain was the one who betrayed everyone, not the soldiers who put their lives on the line.

#110
AlexXIV

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Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Because one man against whole blight would've made such a big difference, when even a Grey Warden needs a huge army? It's better to run away to fight another day and it's not cowardice.

Huh? In one playthrough, my Grey Warden solo'd the entire darkspawn army AND the Archdemon. In other playthroughs, I only had three people with me. Obviously, the darkspawn aren't that tough.

I hope you're sarcastic, because bringing gamemechanics into a story/lore discussion is kinda ... you know ... far off ... so far off that it even makes the moon appear to be close.

#111
fighterchick

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Vengeful Nature wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Running from hopeless odds is not cowardice. There's a difference between recognizing impossible odds and letting fear constantly dominate your actions.

Unless you mean the very idea of not wanting to die means you are a coward. Then I guess we are all cowards.

Remember not to use health potions, as that would fearing having to die due to the possibility of taking more damage. :)

Itkovian


Hardly hopeless odds. Warden managed fine, didn't he? And Hawke is supposed to be more powerful, enough to change the world somehow.


Yeah, the warden managed fine after traveling around the country for several months gathering an army.  The Warden never went straight into the bulk of the horde, they left quietly with Morrigan to Lothering.  Guess that makes the Warden a coward in the beginning of Origins too.  

#112
AustinKain

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I love the people calling me a troll for having a thought its great.



Also everyone has forgotten that DA2 is still 10 days away.



I know if i personally would have been at Ostagar i dont know what i would have done.

Fight? Flee? or just crap my pants and stare in horror?



I just cant wait to see how the game is started and learn the past of our champion as we shape his/her future.

#113
Knightstar2001

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I wouldn't call hawke a coward, he/she was just using good tactics. it makes sense to leave the field of battle when your army has been routed,your commanders killed and reinforcements ordered to retreat. It's called retreating after being defeated.

Only cowards/traitors at the battle of Ostagar were Loghain and anyone else who run in fear without even trying to fight.

#114
88mphSlayer

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as others have said... the grey wardens didn't stay to help defend Lothering either because it would be a waste of time when they could be doing more productive things

#115
DamnThoseDisplayNames

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I'm trying to say is: we don't really know HOW Hawke survived the Battle of Ostagar... do we?


Point taken.

#116
Nashiktal

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AustinKain wrote...

I love the people calling me a troll for having a thought its great.

Also everyone has forgotten that DA2 is still 10 days away.

I know if i personally would have been at Ostagar i dont know what i would have done.
Fight? Flee? or just crap my pants and stare in horror?

I just cant wait to see how the game is started and learn the past of our champion as we shape his/her future.


Well you did ignore everyone who countered your point. Hawke and Carver was in the king's regiment, fought the blight head on, watched their king and army died, and routed.

From their Hawke and Carver had to flee lothering with their family. Doesnt sound like cowardice to me.

#117
Guest_Glaucon_*

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Discretion is the better part of valor.


+

Live to fight another day, and half a dozen other maxims that point to the futility of the "Heroic" but none the less pointless charge into an overwhelming enemy.

To the OP.  Even a Hero can be a Coward sometimes.  Heroism doesn't come with an on/off switch.

#118
Grumpy young man

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Some of the biggest RL national heroes could fit in that definition of "coward"

Skenderbeg for albanians, El Cid for spaniards, Vlad Tepes for romanians etc. - all of them have run on the number of occasions to live and fight for another day.

#119
AtreiyaN7

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Vengeful Nature wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Running from hopeless odds is not cowardice. There's a difference between recognizing impossible odds and letting fear constantly dominate your actions.

Unless you mean the very idea of not wanting to die means you are a coward. Then I guess we are all cowards.

Remember not to use health potions, as that would fearing having to die due to the possibility of taking more damage. :)

Itkovian


Hardly hopeless odds. Warden managed fine, didn't he? And Hawke is supposed to be more powerful, enough to change the world somehow.


Thousands of darkspawn against one man? Yeah, those aren't hopeless odds at all. :P Being powerful enough to change the world might imply political power, which probably doesn't do you much good if you're being overrun by darkspawn. And even if Hawke has special abilities, he sure as heck didn't have them at Ostagar (assuming you're a rogue/warrior Hawe, since mage Hawke was never there).

Also, the Warden did not manage just fine at Ostagar, seeing as he/she ends up with an arrow in his/her chest and would have died at Ostagar but for Flemeth.

#120
Krytheos

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If cowardice lets me live against untold waves of evil creatures, then I'd rather be a coward, working towards my families safety -- since they -are- fleeing already -- than give a loadcrap about some no-namers in a village that was already overrun by the load of buggers.




#121
AlexXIV

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Grumpy young man wrote...

Some of the biggest RL national heroes could fit in that definition of "coward"
Skenderbeg for albanians, El Cid for spaniards, Vlad Tepes for romanians etc. - all of them have run on the number of occasions to live and fight for another day.

Yeah, thing with our heroes is though, the more you know about them, the less you like them, because at some point you can't help to realize that they are just human.

#122
_Somebody

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After seeing the entire army get butchered along with the king and the Grey Wardens, Id run too. 

Modifié par Somebody, 26 février 2011 - 09:20 .


#123
Byth

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Hawke might be considered a deserter, but I wouldn't call him a coward. They were outnumbered and the king was dead, so from at least from what I've seen in the demo his allegiance with Fereldan died with the king.

#124
ArawnNox

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AlexXIV wrote...

Grumpy young man wrote...

Some of the biggest RL national heroes could fit in that definition of "coward"
Skenderbeg for albanians, El Cid for spaniards, Vlad Tepes for romanians etc. - all of them have run on the number of occasions to live and fight for another day.

Yeah, thing with our heroes is though, the more you know about them, the less you like them, because at some point you can't help to realize that they are just human.


Isn't this the point of the opening legend?
The story begins with the heroic stand against the darkspawn hordes and Varric reiterates that the version he starts with is the commonly held story. Its only after that we get the fleeing the darkspawn version.

#125
drahelvete

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AlexXIV wrote...

Grumpy young man wrote...

Some of the biggest RL national heroes could fit in that definition of "coward"
Skenderbeg for albanians, El Cid for spaniards, Vlad Tepes for romanians etc. - all of them have run on the number of occasions to live and fight for another day.

Yeah, thing with our heroes is though, the more you know about them, the less you like them, because at some point you can't help to realize that they are just human.


To me, that just makes them more sympathetic. There's nothing more annoying than flawless, Marty-Stuish heroes.