278 réponses à ce sujet

[Blastback]

Beerfish wrote...

In the famous words of Khalid (or was it Xan?) 'Better part of valor! Better part of valor!"

Hawkes default name btw is really Ser Robin.

Ser Robin Hawke

Khalid

And don't forget Brave Sir Garrick

[AustinKain]

Nashiktal wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

I love the people calling me a troll for having a thought its great.

Also everyone has forgotten that DA2 is still 10 days away.

I know if i personally would have been at Ostagar i dont know what i would have done.
Fight? Flee? or just crap my pants and stare in horror?

I just cant wait to see how the game is started and learn the past of our champion as we shape his/her future.

Well you did ignore everyone who countered your point. Hawke and Carver was in the king's regiment, fought the blight head on, watched their king and army died, and routed.

From their Hawke and Carver had to flee lothering with their family. Doesnt sound like cowardice to me.

We have been told they were in the kings regiment but still dont know what they did or didnt do.  So we really dont know if they fought the blight head on, or were in the back of the line near the archers, and saw what happened and took off.
Until DA2 hits retail we wont know.

[AlexXIV]

And once the battle was lost his next thought was with his family, and he went there into darkspawn horde to get them out. I mean what more can you expect from a man ... or person? And they almost die again if not for Flemeth. If he just ran with his tail between the legs disregarding everyone else he would probably be the last Hawke. So ... callling Hawke a coward is a bit like calling ... I don't know ... the **** resistance in world war germany cowards. They ran! They hid! Cowards should have let the ****s shoot them! lol

Why is n a z i treated like a swear word on this forum? It's a proper shortcut for national socialist.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 26 février 2011 - 09:29 .

[88mphSlayer]

AlexXIV wrote...

Grumpy young man wrote...

Some of the biggest RL national heroes could fit in that definition of "coward"
Skenderbeg for albanians, El Cid for spaniards, Vlad Tepes for romanians etc. - all of them have run on the number of occasions to live and fight for another day.

Yeah, thing with our heroes is though, the more you know about them, the less you like them, because at some point you can't help to realize that they are just human.

um, just to bring up a more recent example, Medal of Honor winner Sal Giunta wasn't a coward for not slaughtering all of the Taliban who ambushed his unit, he was a hero for running into enemy fire to retrieve a fellow soldier being taken away and bringing him back

[AlexXIV]

AustinKain wrote...
We have been told they were in the kings regiment but still dont know what they did or didnt do.  So we really dont know if they fought the blight head on, or were in the back of the line near the archers, and saw what happened and took off.
Until DA2 hits retail we wont know.

So your point is now they are cowards because there is no proof that they are not? I think you realized by now that you were wrong, right?

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

AustinKain wrote...

This is not a bashing post just a realization i came to about 10 mins ago.
The Champion of Kirkwall started out running away from a fight.  He/she was at or near Ostagar and decided to leave running ans screaming away.  True it may have been to save the family, but still he/she ran.

So i guess after getting to Kirkwall the champion was faced with a life changing moment and decided to stand and fight.  It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Maybe its once the remaining members of family are safe its time to prove you are not really a coward.

Anyway not bashing the game just a thought i had, and was wondering if anyone else had come to realize this or even think about it.

You know in hawkes situation running away isnt particularly cowardly, he is way out numbered and it would be considered highly stupid of him to stay 

would it be cowardly if instead of standing in a burning building and trying to put it out you escaped with you family?

Modifié par DinoSteve, 26 février 2011 - 09:31 .

[drahelvete]

"They ran, they hid, they waged guerilla warfare" you mean?

[Chromie]

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

No it doesn't. Morrigan said they're are stragglers left in Ostagar after you wake up from the Tower of Ishal

[DraCZeQQ]

Werent Hawke and Carver under command of Loghain?

[AustinKain]

AlexXIV wrote...

AustinKain wrote...
We have been told they were in the kings regiment but still dont know what they did or didnt do.  So we really dont know if they fought the blight head on, or were in the back of the line near the archers, and saw what happened and took off.
Until DA2 hits retail we wont know.

So your point is now they are cowards because there is no proof that they are not? I think you realized by now that you were wrong, right?

My point is we dont know.
Their is neither wrong no right when there is no proof either way of ones actions. which means until the game retails we wont know the full story.

[Sejborg]

 I am not going to run away from Lothering. I will stay and "fight like a Spartan"! Just like the advertisement told me to do. 

[AlexXIV]

Ringo12 wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Actually, if you listen to the dialogue, he and Carver left the army after Loghain's betrayal.  They fought through the battle.

Plus, ISTR from one of the Bioware website articles that they were in the King's regiment... which means they were down in the valley with Duncan and Cailan.

So, they didn't 'run away from' Ostagar, they survived it. And having been some of the men betrayed and left to die by Loghain, what are they supposed to do? March back to Loghain and forgive and forget?

Is it even desertion, morally, if you're betrayed and abandoned first?

If they survived Ostagar then the story in Origins is all a lie and nothing that happens in that game can be used as cannon for anything else DA related. AS its stated that EVERYONE excpet for the warden/alistair survived Ostagar.
Which means that they did infact run away most likely before the events at Ostagar. If they didnt leave Ostagar before the battle then the whole of Orginis is flawed in its story.

No it doesn't. Morrigan said they're are stragglers left in Ostagar after you wake up from the Tower of Ishal

All wardens died though aside from Alistair and our Warden. Even though that's just like Flemeth's opinion. I doubt alot of people stayed there to count corpses or make otherwise sure that really nobody got away. I mean that's just an inaccuracy that can be explained with common sense. There is no way to know.

[Rake21]

There's a difference between being brave and being suicidal. Hawke was part of an army that got mostly slaughtered by a horde of vicious beast-men because one of their commanders betrayed them all. Running away from a hopless slaughter, where a heroic death wouldn't have benifitted anyone, isn't exactly cowardly.



If he/she had been a coward, then Hawke would have kept on running. Instead, he/she went back to Lothering, a place he/she know was doomed, to save his/her family. That takes some balls.

[ArawnNox]

Sejborg wrote...

 I am not going to run away from Lothering. I will stay and "fight like a Spartan"! Just like the advertisement told me to do. 

Put up a valiant fight against insane odds then die when you get surrounded?

[_Somebody]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Werent Hawke and Carver under command of Loghain?

They were in the Kings army I believe. I think the codex says it too.

[Chuvvy]

Damn right! He should have charged headfirst into the darkspawn hoard and killed them all then found the Archdemon and killed it. Then he should have torn out it's heart and eaten it raw right there in front of it. But no, he just left like every other refugee. What a ****.

[AlexXIV]

AustinKain wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

AustinKain wrote...
We have been told they were in the kings regiment but still dont know what they did or didnt do.  So we really dont know if they fought the blight head on, or were in the back of the line near the archers, and saw what happened and took off.
Until DA2 hits retail we wont know.

So your point is now they are cowards because there is no proof that they are not? I think you realized by now that you were wrong, right?

My point is we dont know.
Their is neither wrong no right when there is no proof either way of ones actions. which means until the game retails we wont know the full story.

Well we don't know, but what are the chances that DA2 describes Hawke as a coward?

[October Sixth]

Somebody wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Werent Hawke and Carver under command of Loghain?

They were in the Kings army I believe. I think the codex says it too.

Yep, they didn't just walk away. They fought their way out.

[Lord_Saulot]

Having played through the demo, it is hard to see how the champion was a coward at all.

[Joy Divison]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Its kind of hard to fight the ENTIRE darkspawn horde by yourself.

My 22nd level GW disagees

[Duncan Anderson]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Werent Hawke and Carver under command of Loghain?

The journal says they were in the kings regiment.

AustinKain wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

AustinKain wrote...
We have been told they were in the kings regiment but still dont know what they did or didnt do.  So we really dont know if they fought the blight head on, or were in the back of the line near the archers, and saw what happened and took off.
Until DA2 hits retail we wont know.

So your point is now they are cowards because there is no proof that they are not? I think you realized by now that you were wrong, right?

My point is we dont know.
Their is neither wrong no right when there is no proof either way of ones actions. which means until the game retails we wont know the full story.

The demo is the begining of the game, were not going to see anything befor that, unless it comes up in conversation we won't have any more information on what happend there when the game comes out than we do now.

[Duros]

So hes a coward for not taking on the entire darkspawn horde with just his sister, brother and mother? I see.

[Sejborg]

ArawnNox wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

 I am not going to run away from Lothering. I will stay and "fight like a Spartan"! Just like the advertisement told me to do. 

Put up a valiant fight against insane odds then die when you get surrounded?

No retreat. No Surrender. That is Spartan law !!! 

[Drowsy0106]

Joy Divison wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Its kind of hard to fight the ENTIRE darkspawn horde by yourself.

My 22nd level GW disagees

Your name is awesome! 

[ArawnNox]

Sejborg wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

 I am not going to run away from Lothering. I will stay and "fight like a Spartan"! Just like the advertisement told me to do. 

Put up a valiant fight against insane odds then die when you get surrounded?

No retreat. No Surrender. That is Spartan law !!! 

Don't get me wrong, the battle of Thermopolae is awesome (the history is actually more badass than 300), I was just being facetious.