278 réponses à ce sujet

[Micro_Chip]

Running away from an unwinnable fight is not cowardly. It's smart.

[AlexXIV]

I think it would have been nice if the game started at Ostagar and not after Lothering was wiped from the map. Seeing the battle at Ostagar with Hawke's eyes would surely have been interesting.

[Sejborg]

PPF65 wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

PPF65 wrote...

Running from a fight you can't win and have nothing to gain by fighting isn't cowardice, its basic survival instinct of all reasonable creatures. A bear runs if it thinks it can't win, but will stand and fight only when cornered or to protect its cubs.

Hawke isn't necessarily a coward, but could be roleplayed as such... if you wanted to roleplay a coward.

http://tvtropes.org/...in/LawfulStupid <== this is the people who stick around because "running = cowardice".

Children, gather round! No retreat, no surrender; that is Spartan law. And by Spartan law we will stand and fight... and die. A new age has begun. An age of freedom, and all will know, that the Hawke family and Aveline gave their last breath to defend it! 

Prepare for glory! 

I'm not a spartan, I'm much more of a "hit-and-run", battle of attrition kinda guy. But tell you what, you tank, and I'll kill the enemy spell casters/archers. Then'll we'll party with a bunch of Irish guys in a 7 story bar, loaded to the top with all the finest liquors and beers in the world.

Your father should have taught you how our phalanx works. We fight as a single, impenetrable unit. That is the source of our strength. Each Spartan protects the man to his left from thigh to neck with his shield. A single weak spot and the phalanx shatters.
From thigh to neck, PPF65. I am sorry, my friend. But not all of us were made to be soldiers.

Modifié par Sejborg, 26 février 2011 - 10:31 .

[Eclipse_9990]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Fleeing the field makes you a coward reasons are just excuses.

Lol okay. If by some off chance that everyone in this thread ends up getting drafted into war, and we happen to be in the middle of getting our ass kicked in battle. I'll let you be the first one to charge the enemy while the rest of us retreat. 

[Carlthestrange]

TONIGHT! WE DINE! ...In Kirkwall.

[errant_knight]

Fleeing Lothering isn't the bad part, fleeing Ferelden is. It occurred to me that if they could catch a ship in Gwaren, it would probably stop in Denerim in the way to Kirkwall, and they would have chosen not to stay and fight. Hawke and Carver could have got off and sent the family on their way. So they did make a concious choice to leave Ferelden to it's fate. Thing is, there's nothing wrong with that from a roleplaying perspective. The human noble is given the out of being ordered, or having to warn Fergus, but they still flees, and the game gives you a chance to put forward feelings about that when takling to the Guardian. I suspect that my Hawke will feel guilty as hell about it, especially a warrior Hawke since they were at Ostagar. Could be interesting.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 février 2011 - 10:50 .

[Shifty Assassin]

yes because everyone can take on hundreds of thousands of darkspawn and only cowards run away from them....

[Metalunatic]

AustinKain wrote...

It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Sigh.

Dead is a certainty if he would have stayed. One man can't defeat the darkspawn horde.

Stupid, stupid thread...

Modifié par Metalunatic, 26 février 2011 - 10:58 .

[fighterchick]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

[
I get the impression that Hawke was equally capable of doing what the Warden did, not charging into the Horde and soloing the Archdemon.

While that may be true, Hawke has no incentive to do that.  Hawke is not a grey warden, he's not going to go around collecting an army (since he has no treaties and has zero reason to do so).  It would be silly for Hawke to think to himself, "I'm going to be a badass and engage an archdemon by myself".  The Warden's sole existence is to stop the blight and remain vigilant against the darkspawn.  Even had Hawke killed an archdemon, he's not a warden, so yay!  He killed it and then it'll respawn in another dark spawn.  Hawke did the sensible thing, he went and got his family, which he's the head of since his father died, and got them out.  HIs sole responsiblity is taking care of his family and caring for their safety, which he does.  

It's just that the way they market Hawke, I understand that he has a magnetic and powerful enough personality to cause a rift or schism of some sort by his actions. So he may well have been instrumental in defeating the Blight, perhaps with far less casualties, had he stayed in Fereldan.

Again, though, it was just a thought that occured to me. You could also argue that Hawke has a decade to achieve what he achieves, whereas the Warden did it in a year.

Again, while that may be true, there is no reason for him to do that.  His family would be his priority, not the blight.  The warden exists to stop the blight, there's not much choice in the matter.  Either he goes off being a coward after becoming a warden, or he stays and does his duty.  Hawke doesn't have this problem as he's not bound by an order whose mission it is to stop the blight.

[fighterchick]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Somebody wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...
Werent Hawke and Carver under command of Loghain?

They were in the Kings army I believe. I think the codex says it too.

Yep, they didn't just walk away. They fought their way out.

I though they fought under seneschal varel who was under Howe, but maybe the Howe thing come after the Ostagar.

btw. Lady Hawke was or wasnt at Ostagart? =)

Lady Hawke was at Ostagar unless she is a mage.  Rogue/warriors joined up with Carver while the apostates stayed behind as they are apostates.  

As for the people saying that the mage not going is a coward, if you look at the demo and read the codex, it says that the family moved around all the time so they could protect Bethany/mage!Hawke from the Templars.  The family wanted to protect itself, so having an apostate go and volunteer for the army (especially when they probably can't fight without their magic) would just be stupid.  They want to avoid detection, so it's practical for them to stay hidden and not advertise the fact that they are a mage.

[Sejborg]

Shifty Assassin wrote...

yes because everyone can take on hundreds of thousands of darkspawn and only cowards run away from them....

... we will block the Darkspawn assault, by rebuilding the great Ostagar Wall. And from there, we will funnel them into the pass we call the Imperial High Way.
Now, in that narrow corridor, their numbers will count for nothing. And wave after wave of Darkspawn attack will smash against Spartan shields!

[Huntress]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

This is not a bashing post just a realization i came to about 10 mins ago.
The Champion of Kirkwall started out running away from a fight.  He/she was at or near Ostagar and decided to leave running ans screaming away.  True it may have been to save the family, but still he/she ran.

So i guess after getting to Kirkwall the champion was faced with a life changing moment and decided to stand and fight.  It is obvious the champ can fight and defend themself and family pretty well, why run away when you could have been a hero in Lothering. Well that or dead lol.

Maybe its once the remaining members of family are safe its time to prove you are not really a coward.

Anyway not bashing the game just a thought i had, and was wondering if anyone else had come to realize this or even think about it.

Human Noble Warden says hello.

Dalish elf say hello!

City elf says hello!

Every other Warden to be says hello!

Duncan says.. ops?

[Ensgnblack]

it not even just about him. Hawke had his family to think of. Does he want to martyr all of them?

[AkiKishi]

Metalunatic wrote...

Dead is a certainty if he would have stayed. One man can't defeat the darkspawn horde.

Stupid, stupid thread...

Let's abandon our country and run away some more. It's like a recuring theme.

[String910]

Yeap. Because Hawke hasn't met Shepard yet.

[Tleining]

@ errant_knight

interesting point, two things to ponder, though:

One: you don't know what your family will face in Kirkwall. So sending your Mother and Sister to a City full of Templars, alone, odd choice

two: would your Hawke really consider fighting under Loghain? Because at that point, there is no alternative. Anora is Queen, Loghain has the strongest Army, and they don't know what the Wardens are doing.

[Saibh]

This reminds me of that troll who used to call Hawke a dirty coward peasant. He was funny.

[DJ0000]

Stay in Lothering for certain death at the hands of the darkspawn with no chance of survival. Why?



Would you really do that?

[AkiKishi]

String910 wrote...

Yeap. Because Hawke hasn't met Shepard yet.

I get the feeling that Shepard is going to sell out Earth in ME3. Peas in a pod.

[Saibh]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Let's abandon our country and run away some more. It's like a recuring theme.

From listening to Carver talk, they did stay. They survived Ostagar, like Wynne did. But without becoming abominations. That we know of. Once everyone else was dead, and they had been betrayed, and their king was killed, what should they have done? Stayed behind to fight off the entire horde by themselves? Or go warn their family and get them to safety?

[AkiKishi]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Fleeing the field makes you a coward reasons are just excuses.

Lol okay. If by some off chance that everyone in this thread ends up getting drafted into war, and we happen to be in the middle of getting our ass kicked in battle. I'll let you be the first one to charge the enemy while the rest of us retreat. 

 Est Solarus Oth Mithas

[Iconic_N7]

The coward lives to become a awsome super duper butt kicking champion. Good thing he or she was a panzy. If not there would be no awsome super duper change in the Dragon Age time period due to one man, or woman.Just kidding... Seriously though, Hawke is no grey warden so he or she has no choice but to flee the cursed darspawn or join their ranks. But if confronted and has no choice he or she still fights them and comes out alive. The fact that he and his siblings fight them knowing that the odds are against them clearly separates them from cowards. They are just a smart family of survivors in my opinion.

[AkiKishi]

Saibh wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Let's abandon our country and run away some more. It's like a recuring theme.

From listening to Carver talk, they did stay. They survived Ostagar, like Wynne did. But without becoming abominations. That we know of. Once everyone else was dead, and they had been betrayed, and their king was killed, what should they have done? Stayed behind to fight off the entire horde by themselves? Or go warn their family and get them to safety?

What I was saying was after they ran from Ostagar, they then ran away from Ferelden.

[Saibh]

BobSmith101 wrote...

What I was saying was after they ran from Ostagar, they then ran away from Ferelden.

Ah, I see. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] But who's to say Kirkwall isn't their home country? Their mother was born there.

Regardless, they couldn't stay anyway--one or two of them is an apostate. It's not like they could enlist. And, even so, who would they enlist to? If anyone found out they were at Ostagar once Loghain took power, they could be silenced. 

Modifié par Saibh, 26 février 2011 - 11:37 .

[nubbers666]

he who flees lives to fight another day