187 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

JohnEpler wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

As for the arguments about the financials of releasing a toolset insofar as DLC is concerned, the idea that releasing a toolset eats into our DLC numbers is not true. If anything, it keeps people playing and using the game for a far longer time, which means that when DLC is released, DA2 has a larger mindshare and thus folks are more likely to purchase DLC.

So, what you're saying is that you used to want to give us a toolset, but now you really want to give us a toolset? 

We've always wanted to do a toolset. The question becomes, of course, how much that's going to cost in terms of resources, and that's not something I can really speak to. I break out in a cold sweat when I have to debug script files to figure out why my scenes aren't working, nevermind coding in general. In the end, though, it'll come down to how difficult it is to package up the changes, as the way our database works internally is not something most folks would be able to make use of. At least, that's what I understand. I could be entirely, 100% wrong.

It's okay, your response is heartwarming. I'm fully aware that releasing an update is nontrivial, and I've never doubted your intent as a company, despite what other people have said. I'm sure that people (who aren't completely unreasonable) will be pleased to hear that it's something you guys are still trying to work out for us

[Grumpy young man]

It really depends from the ones perception of a quality of the offered modes. My EU3 is always running with the mentioned Magna Mundi and my Oblivion has at least 40 mods. But I wont use mods when I buy my DA2 since I believe that I wont need them.

[Dsentinel]

I definitely want DLC to add more game time with the new DA2 system. But, I think toolset is important to add the little things the community wants.

I am curious as to how much of an effect mods have on changing the game. When you developers see a large amount downloads on a mod such as the rune mod from DA:O Does that help you get a sense of what the community wants, therefore prompting you to add it later?

In the end I would choose DLC, bigger DLC compared to the small character additions.

[Johnny Shepard]

DLC!

[daywalker03]

Dsentinel wrote...

I definitely want DLC to add more game time with the new DA2 system. But, I think toolset is important to add the little things the community wants.

I am curious as to how much of an effect mods have on changing the game. When you developers see a large amount downloads on a mod such as the rune mod from DA:O Does that help you get a sense of what the community wants, therefore prompting you to add it later?

In the end I would choose DLC, bigger DLC compared to the small character additions.

Well, look at the Mabari Pet that you get in one of the DA2 DLC's; there was a DAO mod that allowed you to do something similar with Dog. I'm sure there are other examples; I just don't happen to have any others in mind at the moment from DAO.

[DrakoGlyph]

DLC's are great, and I'd love to have one, but Toolsets are awesome!

I only had the opportunity to get Awakening as far as DLC, so all the expanding of the DAO story I have is through mods.

[AmstradHero]

Mad Method wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
If I had to pick, I'd ask for a toolset. Unfortunately, that doesn't make money for BioWare or EA - and first and foremost, they are businesses who have a legal obligation to do just that.

Not true. Valve would never have been such a success if not for the mod community extending Half-Life's shelf-life so incredibly long. Blizzard Entertainment has been enjoying a similar success with Starcraft and Warcraft 3 by mods extending their shelf-lives.

Agreed. I clarified what I meant in a subsequent post. DLC sales translate directly to a dollar figure for a company. Toolsets provide an intangible benefit of potentially "keeping the game alive", but there's no easy way to tell how much money it makes the developer.

Unless we then go into a situation where we have to pay for a toolset, and/or potentially pay for user made modules through a "store" where the modders and BioWare take a cut of the mod's price. Then we'd have the equivalent of the Apple store or Android Market.  We haven't seen that yet, but I imagine it would encourage developers and modders... though the players would potentially lose out of the deal.

[Mad Method]

JrayM16 wrote...

Mad Method wrote...

JrayM16, what is this? A stab at intellectually elitist put-downs through semantics? Sure, he only said he's proud to be a console gamer, but he said it specifically within the context of playing Dragon Age and Dragon Age 2. Thus, although he only explicitly said what you declare, he implicitly stated what I responded to. I'm sorry, but is there any real reason why you're taking issue with my query?

In a sense.  He said it in context of implicitly attacking the toolset.

Right, and here the context of attacking the toolset holds true strictly in the circumstance that he is endorsing playing the console version of the game. It's the critical internal link to his logic.

Not everyone agrees PC is best version(bugs more prevalent than other platforms)

Odd, one of the reasons why I prefer the PC version is that it gets less bugs and there's usually a speedy fix for it from one modder or another. I'm pretty sure a lot of the broken dialogues and questlines fixed in the mods I mentioned are broken in consoles.

Semantics are fun.  This is why I continue.

Alright, cheers.

[Takeva_]

DLC because I play on a console. If the toolset was presented for the PS3 for DA:O and DA2 then I will probably be screaming TOOLSET to.

I actually don't see the point of this. Mostly PC gamers will say toolset and mostly console players will say DLC. Probably have a few console players who will want the toolset if it's available.

At least with more DLC everyone gets it.

[Melca36]

I say why can't we have both....


I think a lot of consolers have forgotten that its the modders who help keep games alive. Its their right to play the game how they want but they should not put down others for thinking differently.

Modifié par Melca36, 27 février 2011 - 03:17 .

[Apolyon6k]

I would say toolset because the most dlc for dao was not that good but I couldn't think of dao without shale or the changes in awakening so it is difficult to say one without the other.

Being able to change game content with a toolset is really fun and telling your own stories that other people can play is quite interesting.

If the mods are good and really add to the experience than it prolongs the shelflife of the game, i.e. I even bought a half life copy no longer than two years ago.

Modifié par Apolyon6k, 27 février 2011 - 03:38 .

[Stormkindle]

Theres pro's and cons to both here. Lets take a look at DLC's first shall we?

  Pros: DLC's can be insured for quality and marketed.
             DLC's can be maintained by future patches with impunity.
             Expert Design at no extra cost

   Cons: Marketing advertisements are useless. By the time there released someones found a way to hack them
               into the game. I call this a con, for the obvious reason.
               Awkwardly short...and gimicky
               Utility only... (Usually)

Toolset (Amateur Design):
  Pros: Constantly updated patch or no patching.
  Pros: Extensive community allready in place since Dragon Age: Origins @ Dragonnexus
  Pros:  Utility by design what you want, when you want.
  Pros:  Expert level design...but not quality insured.
  
  Cons: Mod expectactions well be per user only.
             Toolset was origionally advertised as a amateur designers paradise and it was.
              I see no reason why it shouldn't be again

The engine appears very much the same and as you can see the Pro's outweigh the cons 2/3

Modifié par Stormkindle, 27 février 2011 - 03:43 .

[Challseus]

Toolset, hands down!

[Arhea]

I want the toolset! I love me some mods.

[Blastback]

Uh, well, when we talk DLC, are we talking, DAO's mediocre to decent DLC, or are we talking ME2's OMG this is the best stuff ever DLC?

Makes a diffrence.

[DarkSpider88]

If I could play PC with a controller I would say toolset. Sorry gotta have a controller so very big DLC expansions please.

[panamakira]

DLC but alas I'm playing on consoles....

[Proleric]

Toolset.

The fan-made "A Dance with Rogues" for NWN remains the best RPG I've played.

Admittedly, the business case is tricky. Estimating the return on investment can't be easy. How much do mods grow the brand? The impact on DLC may be neutral, but do mods simply cannibalise the total market for other games, or grow it a little?

In principle, I'd be willing to pay for the toolset, if the price was in the ballpark of the game itself, but sales probably wouldn't cover the development cost.

If the price were much higher, I suspect few would bother, even if they could sell their mods.

[James Raynor]

toolset

[Vena_86]

A toolset is worth a thousand DLCs over a longer period of time.
Installing a mod for Origins is not harder than installing DLC, and it costs nothing.

[Da3mon]

Why cant there be mods on a console? The ps3 version of Unreal Tournament 3 did it. Im pretty sure Bioware wont do this on DA2, since it requires some major rethinking, but DA3? I'm also pretty sure that mods that alter game files would never work (since its on a disk, ofc), but community created mission, campaigns, that plug in the same way as Witch Hunt I would love to see.

On the DLC vs Toolset, I am saying DLC since my PC is major weaksauce, and I am noth buying a new one for a while.

Modifié par Da3mon, 27 février 2011 - 08:58 .

[mesmerizedish]

Da3mon wrote...

Why cant there be mods on a console? The ps3 version of Unreal Tournament 3 did it. Im pretty sure Bioware wont do this on DA2, since it requires some major rethinking, but DA3? I'm also pretty sure that mods that alter game files would never work (since its on a disk, ofc), but community created mission, campaigns, I would love to see.
On the DLC vs Toolset, I am saying DLC since my PC is major weaksauce (I am playing DAO 800x600 with 10-15, and enjoying it! )

Because there's no easy way to get user-created content to consoles. It's too much hassle. Plus, we PC players love feeling superior. It would ruin the balance of power among the playerbase.

[The Elder King]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Da3mon wrote...

Why cant there be mods on a console? The ps3 version of Unreal Tournament 3 did it. Im pretty sure Bioware wont do this on DA2, since it requires some major rethinking, but DA3? I'm also pretty sure that mods that alter game files would never work (since its on a disk, ofc), but community created mission, campaigns, I would love to see.
On the DLC vs Toolset, I am saying DLC since my PC is major weaksauce (I am playing DAO 800x600 with 10-15, and enjoying it! )

Because there's no easy way to get user-created content to consoles. It's too much hassle. Plus, we PC players love feeling superior. It would ruin the balance of power among the playerbase.

I don't think that they can make a toolset for console,  but will someone really be upset if they release a toolset for console in future (I take that you're joking there)?.

On topic, I hope that they'll release a toolset for PC.

Modifié par hhh89, 27 février 2011 - 09:02 .

[Nyxia]

I want both!!