203 réponses à ce sujet

[marcusgs221]

This was the best critique i have read on the forums yet. very well done. i agree with you onalmost every point especially the things that dont worry you, and the ones that do are very unimportant to me.



as a long time bioware fan and player i have no objections to changing things up. the old model of BG and NWN was amazing and should be appriciated for what it is and accomplished. my concerns are more about unknowns than anthing else and therefor may be unwarented but time will tell.



1- limited weapon use for NPC's. will the rogue using DW also be able to use a bow at the same level if speced right?



2- fixed armor for everyone. i know there is a rune system inplace but i always enjoy finding and compleating sets of armor, but this may just be me.



3- no cannon (may be rumor) if this is true how will the world mesh together based on my decisions? if there is a DA3 will i be able to import choices from DAO or will it be similar to playing DA2 without playing DAO where i chose "state of the world" at the begining of the game.



in conclusion i have no major issues with the game that would stop me from playing it by anymeans. actually just the oppisite, i cant wait. the game looks great so far and keep up the good work.

[Krusty84]

http://blog.brentkno...08-summer-2009/

Modifié par Krusty84, 26 février 2011 - 11:41 .

[Red Templar]

100% with the OP. I am a long, long time Bioware fan. Bioware has more than earned my loyalty as a company, and I have tremendous faith in the people at the company. I've been a bit concerned about DA2 for purely aesthetic reasons. The dialogue wheel doesn't bug me... the changes to combat seem solid, and the talent trees look great. The framed narrative looks intriguing, and I fully expect to enjoy DA2. I am not afraid of change, nor am I married to archaic ideas of "what an RPG must be".

That said, I am less than enthused by the aesthetics of Dragon Age 2. The weightless, anime feel and the stylized visuals will lessen my enjoyment of the game. The gritty, medieval feel of Dragon Age is what sold me on the franchise. The gameplay made me enjoy Origins, but the tone and aesthetic of a dirty, realistic medieval world made me love it. That has changed quite drastically, and even though all the mechanical changes seem like clear improvements to me I can't help but wonder if this sudden and drastic shift in the feel and representation of the world represents the loss of what made me love the franchise.

I will play DA2, though I am not planning to purchase any DLC. I will probably really enjoy the tactical gameplay and I will probably have a lot of fun with the story. But I don't know if the sudden shift to stylized reality will make me fall out of love with the franchise.

Maybe that seems petty. I don't know. But that's what it is. I'm just going to hope that the third game in the franchise returns to the look and feel that set this world apart while also being a solid gameplay experience.

Modifié par Red Templar, 26 février 2011 - 11:56 .

[Typical Forum Sycophant]

I agree with OP. The new Darkspawn seem rather comical...even in their movements. It's like they're drunks skipping into battle with poorly applied face paint.

[Lady Cora]

My personal concern is the number of "cut sences" in what was really a very short taster of what is to come. I'm hoping that this is just for the demo and we won't have the continied stop-start game play. Aside from that i'm liking what i saw and sitting on the edge of my seat for the 11th (lucky americans and your earlyer realese date)

[ashez2ashes]

marcusgs221 wrote...

2- fixed armor for everyone. i know there is a rune system inplace but i always enjoy finding and compleating sets of armor, but this may just be me.

.

This is a big issue for me.  It also really devalues loot.  And loot is FUN when it changes your appearance.  I'm sort of mystified by this decision.  I'm not a fan of WoW but loot that changes your appearance is the main reason people play that game, and on a business standpoint getting rid of it for your companions makes no sense.

Maybe it was a time constraint thing.

[Stardusk78]

JohnEpler wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I'm starting to think the greatness of DA followed Brent Knowles out the door when he quit. I think he may have been responsible for everything I loved about the game and now all that's gone without him. Shame. Mostly on Bioware.

Without trying to sound like too much of a jerk (well, I don't think that's going to happen), I think it's well established that you're not happy with the direction that DA2's taking. That's fine! Not everyone will enjoy everything we do, and we certainly don't expect to release every game to completely universal acclaim.

However, you do understand that when you go to every thread and post, essentially, the same thing 'DA2 is too casual and will suck', your posts begin to take on a 'oh, great, this person feel.' Any valid concerns you raise are more likely to be ignored, which I think would be counterproductive to your criticisms.

I mean, you're certainly entitled to post whatever you wish. Just bear in mind that after a while, you will be mentally lumped into a certain category by the developers and your points are far more likely to be ignored.

More succinctly - I'm about ten times more likely to bring up the points of someone like the OP (or even someone with criticisms who presents them and discusses them in a civil fashion) than someone who goes thread to thread to post, essentially, 'BioWare are sellouts/ruining RPGs'. Even your 'Dragon Effect 2' signature makes me less likely to read what you're posting.

Just be honest, I don't mind, it's all about profits and EA rules over you. I don't mind the changes, mind you.

[Krusty84]

And some more Brent Knowles thoughts:

http://blog.brentkno...1/#comment-2364

[reservedegotist]

ashez2ashes wrote...

marcusgs221 wrote...

2- fixed armor for everyone. i know there is a rune system inplace but i always enjoy finding and compleating sets of armor, but this may just be me.

.

This is a big issue for me.  It also really devalues loot.  And loot is FUN when it changes your appearance.  I'm sort of mystified by this decision.  I'm not a fan of WoW but loot that changes your appearance is the main reason people play that game, and on a business standpoint getting rid of it for your companions makes no sense.

Maybe it was a time constraint thing.

Are you sure it's fixed loot? I thought it was both - where you can either outfit companions with new loot, or for those who prefer a "signature" look would instead get upgraded stats on their gear.

[Riloux]

JohnEpler wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I'm starting to think the greatness of DA followed Brent Knowles out the door when he quit. I think he may have been responsible for everything I loved about the game and now all that's gone without him. Shame. Mostly on Bioware.

Without trying to sound like too much of a jerk (well, I don't think that's going to happen), I think it's well established that you're not happy with the direction that DA2's taking. That's fine! Not everyone will enjoy everything we do, and we certainly don't expect to release every game to completely universal acclaim.

However, you do understand that when you go to every thread and post, essentially, the same thing 'DA2 is too casual and will suck', your posts begin to take on a 'oh, great, this person feel.' Any valid concerns you raise are more likely to be ignored, which I think would be counterproductive to your criticisms.

I mean, you're certainly entitled to post whatever you wish. Just bear in mind that after a while, you will be mentally lumped into a certain category by the developers and your points are far more likely to be ignored.

More succinctly - I'm about ten times more likely to bring up the points of someone like the OP (or even someone with criticisms who presents them and discusses them in a civil fashion) than someone who goes thread to thread to post, essentially, 'BioWare are sellouts/ruining RPGs'. Even your 'Dragon Effect 2' signature makes me less likely to read what you're posting.

I couldn't care less whether or not you take my criticism to the developers because I know it makes no difference. You're at the mercy of your publisher when decisions are made about what will sell and what won't. You caved in, and I don't normally blame companies for that, but Bioware is one of the last few that makes decent RPGs.

[Stardusk78]

fighterchicks wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Exyle19 wrote...

Hah, sorry to disappoint, Stardusk.

21, currently in university for video game design, of all things.

Well, at least you can write withou sounding like your brain is made of goo; most of the kids your age can't.

Good career move too; lucky you didn't waste your time studying humanities and social sciences.

On a completely off-topic note, don't most people never use their intended degrees anyways?  I think there's some statistic floating out there on this; I know that I fully intend on not using mine.

On a related note, yay for well-written concerns.  And I really do like the new art direction mostly.  

I wouldn't say that but these days there is no work for anyone no matter what the degree, so it ALMOST doesn't matter what you study or EVEN IF you have studied. There are no jobs, except for engineers, doctors and some other tech fields, so don't worry.

[Veex]

I think a large issue is your exposure to DA2 in comparison to Origins. You've presumably dozens of hours playing Origins, developing the gritty, lived in impression that you've taken away. I know that, for me personally, these types of impressions are solidified over a period of time and exposure to the setting. The art style doesn't impede my ability to develop an overall impression of the setting, time does.



Were I to have my introduction to DA:O be simply the Human Noble origin for example, and then try and give an acurate depiction of the setting I'd be spectacularly baffled. I think with an appropriate amount of exposure to a new art style you'd possess a more complete impression of the setting. I don't believe a game needs a certain art style to convey a dark, gritty environment and feel.

[Grunk]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Exyle19 wrote...

Hah, sorry to disappoint, Stardusk.

21, currently in university for video game design, of all things.

Well, at least you can write withou sounding like your brain is made of goo; most of the kids your age can't.

Good career move too; lucky you didn't waste your time studying humanities and social sciences.

First it's not true that most 21 year olds can't. Second, it's not true that 21 year olds are kids. Third, humanities isn't a waste.

EDIT: Although I will agree that the job market for humanities is hell.

Modifié par Grunk, 26 février 2011 - 11:58 .

[AlexXIV]

Exyle19 wrote...

First off you use alot of words to say 'I don't like the new art style'. You even say most people didn't voice this complaint properly, but to be plain, I am not sure how many people actually read your wall of text.

Anyway, I agree, that the new darkspawn in DA2 don't really deliver the threatening nature they had in DA:O and even DA:A well. That may be due to the new art style, or maybe due to the way they are presented. I am not really a fan of the first scene in which the darkspawn stumble about and turn themselves to eash sides. That's quite different from the Kocari wilds where they have been hidden, and popped up in the middle of your group. I mean basically they changed from 'phantom menace' to the 3 stooges. Well that was the exaggerated part though, even though I admit that the picture Varric gave us there wasn't properly rectified later.

I wrote in another thread that I personally thought that DA2 should start with the battle of ostagar, that would have been a much better introduction and also a sort of nostalgy moment at the start. If we had seen the darkspawn destroy the king's army and how Hawke and Carver hardly escaped it would have given the whole 'flight from Lothering' theme a better impact than the way they did with the small group of refugees repeatedly stopping and having a chat about what happened. That was a bit soap opera style tbh.

I think in general Bioware expect too much fantasy on our part to fill the holes. I mean some of us probably have no problems with it, but many, and especially new players, may not grasp the urgency and what is going on in the start. We have only seen the demo and I wager it was the worst part. It doesn't really belong to the rest of the game since I think darkspawn and the blight are the Hawke's least problem in Kirkwall. So I guess Bioware just wanted to give us a connection to DA:O and be over with it without putting too much effort into it. And sadly it shows.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 27 février 2011 - 12:03 .

[Veracruz]

Hey Exyle19, thank you for taking the time to write a nicely written "wall of text".



About the visual identity thing, I'm not sure what to think. Maybe it's just a matter of lighting/textures in the game. Everything seems more bright and clean compared to Origins.

[ashez2ashes]

reservedegotist wrote...


Are you sure it's fixed loot? I thought it was both - where you can either outfit companions with new loot, or for those who prefer a "signature" look would instead get upgraded stats on their gear.

I think you can change your look, but there's no companion inventory just some kind of "rune" system... You get one new outfit after you do their personal quest like in ME2.  I really hope I'm wrong though.

[Stardusk78]

Grunk wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Exyle19 wrote...

Hah, sorry to disappoint, Stardusk.

21, currently in university for video game design, of all things.

Well, at least you can write withou sounding like your brain is made of goo; most of the kids your age can't.

Good career move too; lucky you didn't waste your time studying humanities and social sciences.

First it's not true that most 21 year olds can't. Second, it's not true that 21 year olds are kids. Third, humanities isn't a waste.

1. Yes, it is true, native speakers of English can't even form past participles for basic verbs anymore, properly use existential constructions with the right number, let alone write. It is true that people in my generation are almost as guilty of it as well.
2. The human brain does not truly reach maturation until 25ish, so yes, until you hit your mid-twenties you are a kid.
3. Humanties are useless for getting a job and that is all that matters.

[Purple People Eater]

So...so many words.

[Stardusk78]

Grunk wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Exyle19 wrote...

Hah, sorry to disappoint, Stardusk.

21, currently in university for video game design, of all things.

Well, at least you can write withou sounding like your brain is made of goo; most of the kids your age can't.

Good career move too; lucky you didn't waste your time studying humanities and social sciences.

First it's not true that most 21 year olds can't. Second, it's not true that 21 year olds are kids. Third, humanities isn't a waste.

EDIT: Although I will agree that the job market for humanities is hell.

Change this to nonexistent and you are spot on.

[Aesieru]

Riloux wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I'm starting to think the greatness of DA followed Brent Knowles out the door when he quit. I think he may have been responsible for everything I loved about the game and now all that's gone without him. Shame. Mostly on Bioware.

Without trying to sound like too much of a jerk (well, I don't think that's going to happen), I think it's well established that you're not happy with the direction that DA2's taking. That's fine! Not everyone will enjoy everything we do, and we certainly don't expect to release every game to completely universal acclaim.

However, you do understand that when you go to every thread and post, essentially, the same thing 'DA2 is too casual and will suck', your posts begin to take on a 'oh, great, this person feel.' Any valid concerns you raise are more likely to be ignored, which I think would be counterproductive to your criticisms.

I mean, you're certainly entitled to post whatever you wish. Just bear in mind that after a while, you will be mentally lumped into a certain category by the developers and your points are far more likely to be ignored.

More succinctly - I'm about ten times more likely to bring up the points of someone like the OP (or even someone with criticisms who presents them and discusses them in a civil fashion) than someone who goes thread to thread to post, essentially, 'BioWare are sellouts/ruining RPGs'. Even your 'Dragon Effect 2' signature makes me less likely to read what you're posting.

I couldn't care less whether or not you take my criticism to the developers because I know it makes no difference. You're at the mercy of your publisher when decisions are made about what will sell and what won't. You caved in, and I don't normally blame companies for that, but Bioware is one of the last few that makes decent RPGs.

When someone get's an intelligent response from a developer, the absolute last thing you do is insult them.

I think they did this themselves, because they want a new direction to experiment and see how it goes while having a great story, and the difference is that EA may not have had much effect on them at all.

[Atakuma]

ashez2ashes wrote...

reservedegotist wrote...


Are you sure it's fixed loot? I thought it was both - where you can either outfit companions with new loot, or for those who prefer a "signature" look would instead get upgraded stats on their gear.

I think you can change your look, but there's no companion inventory just some kind of "rune" system... You get one new outfit after you do their personal quest like in ME2.  I really hope I'm wrong though.

You are wrong but it's about the companions getting new outfits after personal missions, some of them wont get a new outfit at all.

[John Epler]

Riloux wrote...

I couldn't care less whether or not you take my criticism to the developers because I know it makes no difference. You're at the mercy of your publisher when decisions are made about what will sell and what won't. You caved in, and I don't normally blame companies for that, but Bioware is one of the last few that makes decent RPGs.

That's fine - you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and as I said, I respect that you aren't happy with the direction we've taken.

Hopefully we release products in the future more to your taste and if not, then that's too bad and I hope you find the game you're looking for elsewhere.

[Twaddlefish]

Great post, Exyle. I agree with a lot of the points you make.



John's said that he's not touched the demo for months, and doesn't know how the final fire effect looks. It's possible, as has been speculated, that the demo is an older build of the game, especially if people at Bioware have seen it months before. So, you never know, the might be just as grotesque as they were before and look slightly less the putty blokes from Power Rangers.



Oh, you think you guys are screwed with degrees. I have an Archaeology degree. I can dig a hole, but it'll be the best god damn hole you ever see!

[Rixxencaxx]

Aesieru wrote...

Riloux wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I'm starting to think the greatness of DA followed Brent Knowles out the door when he quit. I think he may have been responsible for everything I loved about the game and now all that's gone without him. Shame. Mostly on Bioware.

Without trying to sound like too much of a jerk (well, I don't think that's going to happen), I think it's well established that you're not happy with the direction that DA2's taking. That's fine! Not everyone will enjoy everything we do, and we certainly don't expect to release every game to completely universal acclaim.

However, you do understand that when you go to every thread and post, essentially, the same thing 'DA2 is too casual and will suck', your posts begin to take on a 'oh, great, this person feel.' Any valid concerns you raise are more likely to be ignored, which I think would be counterproductive to your criticisms.

I mean, you're certainly entitled to post whatever you wish. Just bear in mind that after a while, you will be mentally lumped into a certain category by the developers and your points are far more likely to be ignored.

More succinctly - I'm about ten times more likely to bring up the points of someone like the OP (or even someone with criticisms who presents them and discusses them in a civil fashion) than someone who goes thread to thread to post, essentially, 'BioWare are sellouts/ruining RPGs'. Even your 'Dragon Effect 2' signature makes me less likely to read what you're posting.

I couldn't care less whether or not you take my criticism to the developers because I know it makes no difference. You're at the mercy of your publisher when decisions are made about what will sell and what won't. You caved in, and I don't normally blame companies for that, but Bioware is one of the last few that makes decent RPGs.

When someone get's an intelligent response from a developer, the absolute last thing you do is insult them.

I think they did this themselves, because they want a new direction to experiment and see how it goes while having a great story, and the difference is that EA may not have had much effect on them at all.

they did this cause of EA.....and going this path they will likely end  like westwood....

[MadLaughter]

John, even though if you look at my post history I'm mostly posting about things I wish were better, one thing that I can't complain about is your willingness to post on these forums and participate in dialogues with the people on them. Thanks.