174 réponses à ce sujet

[pomrink]

I don't really see what the issue with mages being in power would be...the powerful in charge? Already happens. Tevinter seems to be an overblown example, and frankly, alot of the information given to us about how evil it is seems to be biased. At worse its an example of human greed and power hunger, which happens to any in power. Rich powerful people in an ancient society that doesn't place much value on life. I don't think the fact that the leaders are mages is very relevant, my thinking is if the leaders weren't mages, the same events would've happened anyway, by regular power hungry people with mages under their control.

[Eludajae]

From what little lore there is on Tevinter Imperium the following things have been said in various books in the game if you read them.

1) The Capital of The Tevinter Imperium has never been taken even Andraste failed to take it.
2) Its an obvious slave economy state, the Blood Mage you fight in Denerum is a Tevinter Imperium mage/slaver.
3) The Tevinter Imperium is shown bordering Orlais, part of the upper Free Marches and some of Antivia ( sorry about the spelling of the names doing this from memory at this computer)

So it definitely still exists as a nation, but is so far from Fereldon that its something of near folklore and talked about as if its defunct. That I believe is just a combination of Chantry propaganda and distance from the current Imperiums boarders.

So its still there and still a possible threat and still ruled by Blood Mages.

[pomrink]

Also, the cultural norms of Tevinter seem to support mages going mad and power hungry, not like the rest of Thedas. Tevinter just seems to be a terrible example of "how mages could turn".

[DieHigh2012]

pomrink wrote...

I don't really see what the issue with mages being in power would be...the powerful in charge? Already happens. Tevinter seems to be an overblown example, and frankly, alot of the information given to us about how evil it is seems to be biased. At worse its an example of human greed and power hunger, which happens to any in power. Rich powerful people in an ancient society that doesn't place much value on life. I don't think the fact that the leaders are mages is very relevant, my thinking is if the leaders weren't mages, the same events would've happened anyway, by regular power hungry people with mages under their control.

Ok try this one on remember that leader in germany? Imagine him and is the SS able to shot fireballs, call earthquakes, bring down lighting, and able to heal themselves. 

Extream exaple I know, but it makes its point. Makes me glad we dont have any mages IRL.

[My Avatar is Batman]

We need Blood mage Hawke

Because he's the hero Kirkwall deserves. But not the one it needs right now. And so we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent gaurdian. A watchful protector. A dark knight

[Nemis-Roidsavelt]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

Part of me wishes this game was an MMO so i could kill all you maniacs who would appose the freedom of the mages...................I seriously want you all dead.
I would gladly turn over to blood magic and merge with a demon to crush all who would apose the freedom of mages, and even sacrifice myself if i had to for the greater good.

Its you mage haters who enslave the mages which create abominations. If you maniacs didnt imprision them then they wouldnt have to turn to such drastic measures to fight for their freedom.

Except in old Tevinter, the mages enslaved everyone and freely practiced horrible blood magic on the less fortunate. That's why your rights are restricted now. Blame the old mages for being so dang evil, they are the ones you should be blaming.

How would you like it if you had to be forced into a jail celler for something your Grand-father did. It wouldnt seem fair now would it!

[lost lupus]

indeed traviner today borders: Antvia, Anderfels, navarra and possible the free marshes

oralis may border the map lacks proper lines

[Eclipse_9990]

Apostates are awesome. Even their name is cool. "Ah-paw-staytes"...

[pomrink]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I don't really see what the issue with mages being in power would be...the powerful in charge? Already happens. Tevinter seems to be an overblown example, and frankly, alot of the information given to us about how evil it is seems to be biased. At worse its an example of human greed and power hunger, which happens to any in power. Rich powerful people in an ancient society that doesn't place much value on life. I don't think the fact that the leaders are mages is very relevant, my thinking is if the leaders weren't mages, the same events would've happened anyway, by regular power hungry people with mages under their control.

Ok try this one on remember that leader in germany? Imagine him and is the SS able to shot fireballs, call earthquakes, bring down lighting, and able to heal themselves. 

Extream exaple I know, but it makes its point. Makes me glad we dont have any mages IRL.

I don't actually know what point you were going for. If H. I .T .L .E .R . was a mage he'd be more horrible? Granted, but there would be mages on the allied side, making the issue somewhat moot.

[DieHigh2012]

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

Part of me wishes this game was an MMO so i could kill all you maniacs who would appose the freedom of the mages...................I seriously want you all dead.
I would gladly turn over to blood magic and merge with a demon to crush all who would apose the freedom of mages, and even sacrifice myself if i had to for the greater good.

Its you mage haters who enslave the mages which create abominations. If you maniacs didnt imprision them then they wouldnt have to turn to such drastic measures to fight for their freedom.

Except in old Tevinter, the mages enslaved everyone and freely practiced horrible blood magic on the less fortunate. That's why your rights are restricted now. Blame the old mages for being so dang evil, they are the ones you should be blaming.

How would you like it if you had to be forced into a jail celler for something your Grand-father did. It wouldnt seem fair now would it!

Haha prolly not, so you should prove that you are different. That fiasco at the circle tower didn't really help your case.

[pomrink]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

Part of me wishes this game was an MMO so i could kill all you maniacs who would appose the freedom of the mages...................I seriously want you all dead.
I would gladly turn over to blood magic and merge with a demon to crush all who would apose the freedom of mages, and even sacrifice myself if i had to for the greater good.

Its you mage haters who enslave the mages which create abominations. If you maniacs didnt imprision them then they wouldnt have to turn to such drastic measures to fight for their freedom.

Except in old Tevinter, the mages enslaved everyone and freely practiced horrible blood magic on the less fortunate. That's why your rights are restricted now. Blame the old mages for being so dang evil, they are the ones you should be blaming.

How would you like it if you had to be forced into a jail celler for something your Grand-father did. It wouldnt seem fair now would it!

Haha prolly not, so you should prove that you are different. That fiasco at the circle tower didn't really help your case.

That arguement is similar to saying "Everyone I've met is missing a leg. Therefore, EVERYONE is missing a leg"

[DieHigh2012]

pomrink wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I don't really see what the issue with mages being in power would be...the powerful in charge? Already happens. Tevinter seems to be an overblown example, and frankly, alot of the information given to us about how evil it is seems to be biased. At worse its an example of human greed and power hunger, which happens to any in power. Rich powerful people in an ancient society that doesn't place much value on life. I don't think the fact that the leaders are mages is very relevant, my thinking is if the leaders weren't mages, the same events would've happened anyway, by regular power hungry people with mages under their control.

Ok try this one on remember that leader in germany? Imagine him and is the SS able to shot fireballs, call earthquakes, bring down lighting, and able to heal themselves. 

Extream exaple I know, but it makes its point. Makes me glad we dont have any mages IRL.

I don't actually know what point you were going for. If H. I .T .L .E .R . was a mage he'd be more horrible? Granted, but there would be mages on the allied side, making the issue somewhat moot.

It wouldn't have been just him, it would have been everyone in his gov. Everyone that was important. That was how Old Tevinter was set up, and there where other nations with mages that Tevinter just rolled over.

[DieHigh2012]

*sniffs the air*

Is that a Troll I smell.

EDIT: Anyway I'm done with this thread, I've made my point several times. Time to go to a different thread.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 27 février 2011 - 06:51 .

[pomrink]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

pomrink wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I don't really see what the issue with mages being in power would be...the powerful in charge? Already happens. Tevinter seems to be an overblown example, and frankly, alot of the information given to us about how evil it is seems to be biased. At worse its an example of human greed and power hunger, which happens to any in power. Rich powerful people in an ancient society that doesn't place much value on life. I don't think the fact that the leaders are mages is very relevant, my thinking is if the leaders weren't mages, the same events would've happened anyway, by regular power hungry people with mages under their control.

Ok try this one on remember that leader in germany? Imagine him and is the SS able to shot fireballs, call earthquakes, bring down lighting, and able to heal themselves. 

Extream exaple I know, but it makes its point. Makes me glad we dont have any mages IRL.

I don't actually know what point you were going for. If H. I .T .L .E .R . was a mage he'd be more horrible? Granted, but there would be mages on the allied side, making the issue somewhat moot.

It wouldn't have been just him, it would have been everyone in his gov. Everyone that was important. That was how Old Tevinter was set up, and there where other nations with mages that Tevinter just rolled over.

The thing is, that example is completely irrelevent. Making a generalization off a single example is a massive logical fallacy. While it is possible that another Tevinter could happen, The fact is it only one example in a culture that promoted ruthlessness and placed little value on human life, both of which have little to do with mages. It could easily be an outlier in the data set, completely irrelevent to what else would happen. More data is needed before the argument could be continued, and agreeing to either side is rash and irrational. Make many free mage societies, find out the most common result (with other factors figured into the descion), then decide from there.

[Nemis-Roidsavelt]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

Part of me wishes this game was an MMO so i could kill all you maniacs who would appose the freedom of the mages...................I seriously want you all dead.
I would gladly turn over to blood magic and merge with a demon to crush all who would apose the freedom of mages, and even sacrifice myself if i had to for the greater good.

Its you mage haters who enslave the mages which create abominations. If you maniacs didnt imprision them then they wouldnt have to turn to such drastic measures to fight for their freedom.

Except in old Tevinter, the mages enslaved everyone and freely practiced horrible blood magic on the less fortunate. That's why your rights are restricted now. Blame the old mages for being so dang evil, they are the ones you should be blaming.

How would you like it if you had to be forced into a jail celler for something your Grand-father did. It wouldnt seem fair now would it!

Haha prolly not, so you should prove that you are different. That fiasco at the circle tower didn't really help your case.

That fiasco in the mage tower would have never happened if we mages wernt thrown into the tower to begin with. It's the Chantries fault for forcing us into such drastic measures. And furthermore we mages will never be able to prove ourselves. It will never be good enough. Their can be only one answear for our freedom. To war. For Freedom. For a better tommorow!

[pomrink]

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

Part of me wishes this game was an MMO so i could kill all you maniacs who would appose the freedom of the mages...................I seriously want you all dead.
I would gladly turn over to blood magic and merge with a demon to crush all who would apose the freedom of mages, and even sacrifice myself if i had to for the greater good.

Its you mage haters who enslave the mages which create abominations. If you maniacs didnt imprision them then they wouldnt have to turn to such drastic measures to fight for their freedom.

Except in old Tevinter, the mages enslaved everyone and freely practiced horrible blood magic on the less fortunate. That's why your rights are restricted now. Blame the old mages for being so dang evil, they are the ones you should be blaming.

How would you like it if you had to be forced into a jail celler for something your Grand-father did. It wouldnt seem fair now would it!

Haha prolly not, so you should prove that you are different. That fiasco at the circle tower didn't really help your case.

That fiasco in the mage tower would have never happened if we mages wernt thrown into the tower to begin with. It's the Chantries fault for forcing us into such drastic measures. And furthermore we mages will never be able to prove ourselves. It will never be good enough. Their can be only one answear for our freedom. To war. For Freedom. For a better tommorow!

Massive amounts of non-sequiturs there.

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Ok try this one on remember that leader in germany? Imagine him and is the SS able to shot fireballs, call earthquakes, bring down lighting, and able to heal themselves. 

Extream exaple I know, but it makes its point. Makes me glad we dont have any mages IRL.

Weren't you the one who took issue with me using a quote from real life? 

I can imagine the benefits that mages can bring to the sick and infirm, I can see how mages were the ones who gave an edge to save the Andrastian nations from the Qunari, and who have helped during the Blights when the darkspawn threatened all of humanity. I'm certain there are many who are grateful that they weren't killed or forcefully converted to the Qun in Thedas.

[Nemis-Roidsavelt]

pomrink wrote...


Massive amounts of non-sequiturs there.

ugh. i had to actually Bing that word to find out its meaning. And i disagree.

 [Edit: Conversation tree trimmed by Moderator] 

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 27 février 2011 - 03:10 .

[pomrink]

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...


ugh. i had to actually Bing that word to find out its meaning. And i disagree.

Your argument was

The mages slaughtered many people. The mages were under chantry control. Therefore, the mages slaughtered many people because they were under chantry control.

Edit: Let it be known that I support freeing of mages, because I hate repression in any form. I hate hate logical fallacy more.

 [Edit: Conversation tree trimmed by Moderator] 

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 27 février 2011 - 03:09 .

[LobselVith8]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

How would you like it if you had to be forced into a jail celler for something your Grand-father did. It wouldnt seem fair now would it!

Haha prolly not, so you should prove that you are different. That fiasco at the circle tower didn't really help your case.

You mean a group of oppressed people trying to emancipate themselves from armed and armored drug addicts set a bad example?

DieHigh2012 wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I don't actually know what point you were going for. If H. I .T .L .E .R . was a mage he'd be more horrible? Granted, but there would be mages on the allied side, making the issue somewhat moot.

It wouldn't have been just him, it would have been everyone in his gov. Everyone that was important. That was how Old Tevinter was set up, and there where other nations with mages that Tevinter just rolled over.

We already have a dictatorship in Thedas: the Chantry. They're spread across the continent, they're supported the invasion of other nations, and they certainly imprison a group of people who are different than they are.

DieHigh2012 wrote...

*sniffs the air*

Is that a Troll I smell.

You mean someone has a different opinion than you?

[Nemis-Roidsavelt]

[quote]DieHigh2012 wrote...

*sniffs the air*

Is that a Troll I smell. [/quote]

You mean someone has a different opinion than you?[/quote]


i think what he ment by that was that he was in fact a troll himself

[Nemis-Roidsavelt]

pomrink wrote...

Your argument was

The mages slaughtered many people. The mages were under chantry control. Therefore, the mages slaughtered many people because they were under chantry control.

Edit: Let it be known that I support freeing of mages, because I hate repression in any form. I hate hate logical fallacy more.

No. you have it all wrong. I think you read the other guys messages and got them mixed in with my words somehow.

 [Edit: Conversation tree trimmed by Moderator] 

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 27 février 2011 - 03:08 .

[DieHigh2012]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Ok try this one on remember that leader in germany? Imagine him and is the SS able to shot fireballs, call earthquakes, bring down lighting, and able to heal themselves. 

Extream exaple I know, but it makes its point. Makes me glad we dont have any mages IRL.

Weren't you the one who took issue with me using a quote from real life? 

I can imagine the benefits that mages can bring to the sick and infirm, I can see how mages were the ones who gave an edge to save the Andrastian nations from the Qunari, and who have helped during the Blights when the darkspawn threatened all of humanity. I'm certain there are many who are grateful that they weren't killed or forcefully converted to the Qun in Thedas.

Haha I knew that was you, nice try

Just had to wait for you get back on this profile to say so.

[pomrink]

Nemis-Roidsavelt wrote...

No. you have it all wrong. I think you read the other guys messages and got them mixed in with my words somehow.

No.

 [Edit: Conversation tree trimmed by Moderator] 

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 27 février 2011 - 03:07 .

[DieHigh2012]

I really don't think he was being for real, I certainly didn't think so when we were posting back and forth

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 27 février 2011 - 07:33 .