61 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Followed quickly by a collective "Oh God, now that crazy serial killer b*tch is going to kill me."

WIN

[Sandbox47]

What I wonder is why the Shadow Broker doesn't realize the switch? There is no file on Morinth in the Lair. And there is on mention of Samara's death or Morinth's appearance. Some should be noted! Shadow Broker knows everything!

[Xilizhra]

Well, if you bring Morinth to the SB fight, he says something like "I'm surprised the justicar came, T'Soni, considering her... changed priorities."

[jbblue05]

Most of the crew doesn't give a crap about Samara.
I plan on telling the crew in ME3 that i have Succubus sexy vampire on our team now.  The crew would try to avoid Morinth as much as possible.  I don't give a damn what my crew thinks about Morinth if you don't like it I'll get Grunt to toss you out of the airlock


Shepard can abstain from mind-sex with Morinth and Morinth can stay entertained by killing bad guys.

Everybody wins except for Samara

[ReiSilver]

jbblue05 wrote...

Most of the crew doesn't give a crap about Samara.
I plan on telling the crew in ME3 that i have Succubus sexy vampire on our team now.  The crew would try to avoid Morinth as much as possible.  I don't give a damn what my crew thinks about Morinth if you don't like it I'll get Grunt to toss you out of the airlock


Shepard can abstain from mind-sex with Morinth and Morinth can stay entertained by killing bad guys.

Everybody wins except for Samara

"Morinth can stay entertained by killing bad guys"
If you think that will satisfy her you haven't been listening to her.

[jbblue05]

ReiSilver wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Most of the crew doesn't give a crap about Samara.
I plan on telling the crew in ME3 that i have Succubus sexy vampire on our team now.  The crew would try to avoid Morinth as much as possible.  I don't give a damn what my crew thinks about Morinth if you don't like it I'll get Grunt to toss you out of the airlock


Shepard can abstain from mind-sex with Morinth and Morinth can stay entertained by killing bad guys.

Everybody wins except for Samara

"Morinth can stay entertained by killing bad guys"
If you think that will satisfy her you haven't been listening to her.
o

Morinth wants to have freaky mind sex with Shepard as long as Shepard keeps playibg hard to get, Morinth will be entertained.plus killing excites her.

[ReiSilver]

jbblue05 wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Most of the crew doesn't give a crap about Samara.
I plan on telling the crew in ME3 that i have Succubus sexy vampire on our team now.  The crew would try to avoid Morinth as much as possible.  I don't give a damn what my crew thinks about Morinth if you don't like it I'll get Grunt to toss you out of the airlock


Shepard can abstain from mind-sex with Morinth and Morinth can stay entertained by killing bad guys.

Everybody wins except for Samara

"Morinth can stay entertained by killing bad guys"
If you think that will satisfy her you haven't been listening to her.
o

Morinth wants to have freaky mind sex with Shepard as long as Shepard keeps playibg hard to get, Morinth will be entertained.plus killing excites her.

she also craves the deadly mind meld and wants to keep doing it. She feels it makes her stronger, it's her destiny, it feels really freaking good etc. She sees no reason to stop other then the immediate threat of Shepard. She wants to do this so much that she committed to a life on the run with the consequence of being captured is death.
If you think the occasional flirting from Shepard is going to keep her fleeing off to continue her serial killer life style you are incredibly naive. The only question is how many of your crew she will take out during her inevitable escape.
You'd better hope you get a chance to either take her out first, keep her on an incredibly tight leash (which may just end up in her wanting to escape quicker) or that your Shepard doesn't care for the mooks under their command who are unlucky enough to be in her way when she leaves.

[jbblue05]

ReiSilver wrote...

she also craves the deadly mind meld and wants to keep doing it. She feels it makes her stronger, it's her destiny, it feels really freaking good etc. She sees no reason to stop other then the immediate threat of Shepard. She wants to do this so much that she committed to a life on the run with the consequence of being captured is death.
If you think the occasional flirting from Shepard is going to keep her fleeing off to continue her serial killer life style you are incredibly naive. The only question is how many of your crew she will take out during her inevitable escape.
You'd better hope you get a chance to either take her out first, keep her on an incredibly tight leash (which may just end up in her wanting to escape quicker) or that your Shepard doesn't care for the mooks under their command who are unlucky enough to be in her way when she leaves.

I choose Morinth over Samara because she is stronger  and will be more useful in the fight against the Collectors and Reapers.  I find Samara's Justicar code more dangerous than Morinth's condition.

Samara is likely to hunt Renegade Shepard down and kill him  while Morinth will stick around trying to get snu-snu.
Shepard can say no to Morinth while Samara is compelled by her Justicar code.

Morinth isn't stupid enough to kill someone on the Normandy.  Their are 11-12 other badass killers that will take her down in seconds.
Remember the Ambassador Nakmor Krall Renegade Shepard can accept his duel but warns him about the dozens of Urdnot Warriors who will be coming for that ass in seconds.

Once the Reapers are defeated Morinth can go her own way or she can be my top Assasin if my Shepard can usurp power from TIM.

Plus some of the crew would really like Morinth.

Chambers-  They can watch Vaenia together.
Jack- They can read poetry together
Jacob- They can watch Asari Confessions:True Blue
Kasumi- They both love art
Miranda- They're both infertile can sort of sympathize with each other
Zaaed- Sole Suvivors trade stories
Tali- Shepard fangirls
Grunt- both love killing
Mordin- Would want to run medical exams on Morinth's condition
Thane- Die a pleasurable death

Modifié par jbblue05, 27 février 2011 - 06:13 .

[Dean_the_Young]

ReiSilver wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Since the only way to recruit her is to disprove that assertion...

And then prove it again if you're dumb enough not an hour later.

At least both Morinth and Samara are fairly easy to predict in their behavior.  Morinth has her compulsions, Samara has her code.  Pay attention to what you do around whom and you'll be just fine and dandy.

Morinth's compulsions aren't even as over-dominating as some people insist on asserting: even Samara explicitly paints her as cautious, careful, and far more inclined towards her own personal safety than a 'quick fix', marking Morinth as the type who would go quiet and abstain for decades for safety.

Arguing that Morinth is going to sleep with whomever on the Normandy really requires an underlying assumption that Morinth is an idiot to think that doing so won't be noticed, caught, or retaliated in a closed environment constantly monitored by multiple sources.

She already left the sanctuary because she could not abstain for decades and chose a life on the run so she could kill when she wanted to. She is compelled to kill like a junkie is compelled to get a fix and she doesn't want help. And this isn't the kind of craving killing on the battlefield will sate, she tells you as much and will demonstrate on Shepard if you let her. I'd fully count on Morinth finding a way to get her fix, whether Shepard approves or not. The only question is how many of your crew she takes out on her way out if Shepard leaves her alone on the ship too long after the SM...

A charming argument, if Samara herself didn't outright contradict your assertion.

Morinth can avoid killing for decades, if need be. Our best subject matter expert on this being... Samara, who's been tracking her for hundreds of years, and should know what she's talking about.

Morinth did not want to abstain for her entire life. She would not want to abstain for life. But to treat her as if she can't abstain for years, let alone weeks or monthes, and that when she would indulge she would necessarily do it on Shepard's own...

Again. Relying on Morinth to be stupid.

Let's face it Cerberus mooks? Not the brightest sparks in the box when it comes to their own safety.

Shepard and his dirty dozen? EDI? Both the Illusive Man and the Shadow Broker's own surveilance? Very much so.

[Hanar Shakespeare]

jbblue05 wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...

she also craves the deadly mind meld and wants to keep doing it. She feels it makes her stronger, it's her destiny, it feels really freaking good etc. She sees no reason to stop other then the immediate threat of Shepard. She wants to do this so much that she committed to a life on the run with the consequence of being captured is death.
If you think the occasional flirting from Shepard is going to keep her fleeing off to continue her serial killer life style you are incredibly naive. The only question is how many of your crew she will take out during her inevitable escape.
You'd better hope you get a chance to either take her out first, keep her on an incredibly tight leash (which may just end up in her wanting to escape quicker) or that your Shepard doesn't care for the mooks under their command who are unlucky enough to be in her way when she leaves.

I choose Morinth over Samara because she is stronger  and will be more useful in the fight against the Collectors and Reapers.  I find Samara's Justicar code more dangerous than Morinth's condition.

Samara is likely to hunt Renegade Shepard down and kill him  while Morinth will stick around trying to get snu-snu.
Shepard can say no to Morinth while Samara is compelled by her Justicar code.

Morinth isn't stupid enough to kill someone on the Normandy.  Their are 11-12 other badass killers that will take her down in seconds.
Remember the Ambassador Nakmor Krall Renegade Shepard can accept his duel but warns him about the dozens of Urdnot Warriors who will be coming for that ass in seconds.

Once the Reapers are defeated Morinth can go her own way or she can be my top Assasin if my Shepard can usurp power from TIM.

Plus some of the crew would really like Morinth.

Chambers-  They can watch Vaenia together.
Jack- They can read poetry together
Jacob- They can watch Asari Confessions:True Blue
Kasumi- They both love art
Miranda- They're both infertile can sort of sympathize with each other
Zaaed- Sole Suvivors trade stories
Tali- Shepard fangirls
Grunt- both love killing
Mordin- Would want to run medical exams on Morinth's condition
Thane- Die a pleasurable death

Dead
Dead
Dead
Dead
Dead
Dead
Dead
Dead
Dead
Dead

Shephard - Possibly dead. Galaxy - screwed.

[Notho]

ReiSilver wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Since the only way to recruit her is to disprove that assertion...

And then prove it again if you're dumb enough not an hour later.

At least both Morinth and Samara are fairly easy to predict in their behavior.  Morinth has her compulsions, Samara has her code.  Pay attention to what you do around whom and you'll be just fine and dandy.

Morinth's compulsions aren't even as over-dominating as some people insist on asserting: even Samara explicitly paints her as cautious, careful, and far more inclined towards her own personal safety than a 'quick fix', marking Morinth as the type who would go quiet and abstain for decades for safety.

Arguing that Morinth is going to sleep with whomever on the Normandy really requires an underlying assumption that Morinth is an idiot to think that doing so won't be noticed, caught, or retaliated in a closed environment constantly monitored by multiple sources.

She already left the sanctuary because she could not abstain for decades and chose a life on the run so she could kill when she wanted to. She is compelled to kill like a junkie is compelled to get a fix and she doesn't want help. And this isn't the kind of craving killing on the battlefield will sate, she tells you as much and will demonstrate on Shepard if you let her. I'd fully count on Morinth finding a way to get her fix, whether Shepard approves or not. The only question is how many of your crew she takes out on her way out if Shepard leaves her alone on the ship too long after the SM...
Let's face it Cerberus mooks? Not the brightest sparks in the box when it comes to their own safety.

Morinth: Oh Mister Gardner, I have a leaky pipe I need you to take a look at. (Predatory leer)

Gardner: Ok...

[Smeelia]

jbblue05 wrote...

I choose Morinth over Samara because she is stronger  and will be more useful in the fight against the Collectors and Reapers.  I find Samara's Justicar code more dangerous than Morinth's condition.

I don't think there's any evidence that Morinth is stronger, they just have different specialities.  It's also worth noting that choosing the "Can't think..." option results in Samara winning (although I think Shepard automatically helps her so I'm not sure if it counts).

The Justicar code is basically 100% predictable, with Morinth you have no idea how she'll act (although you can assume she'll do whatever it takes to protect herself and pursue her own desires, which seems like it could be a danger to the mission).  Even a Renegade knows that Samara wont be a threat until after the mission (at which point she can be dealt with), you can't be so sure with Morinth (although you can still deal with her after the misison as well).

The way the choice is presented it's really difficult to justify choosing Morinth, it definately could have been handled better and the factors in favour of Morinth can only be discovered after the loyalty mission (either way), meaning choosing her is far more likely to be an out of character decision.

jbblue05 wrote...

Thane- Die a pleasurable death

I know Morinth says that killing people her way is fun but there's a good chance that it's only fun for her.  She offers pleasure to her victims but I don't think there's anything that says for sure that she delivers (of course no one has survived to say either way).

[Guanxii]

It never really occurred to me until now that Samara is secretly an Ardat-Yakshi herself, who uses the Justicar code to gain the self control she needs to cope with her own addiction. Noble warrior my ass. THIS is why Morinth disgusts her because she's battling with her own 'id' and it's like looking in the mirror. This is why she knows Morinth so well. She WAS Morinth before she became a Justicar, but in her own view Morinth is too far gone for any hope of redemption at this point.

Modifié par Guanxii, 28 février 2011 - 01:36 .

[mrmarcus101]

No, if Samara was an Ardat-Yakshi there would be no Morinth. It's stated that A-Ys are sterile.

[jbblue05]

Smeelia wrote...

I don't think there's any evidence that Morinth is stronger, they just have different specialities.  It's also worth noting that choosing the "Can't think..." option results in Samara winning (although I think Shepard automatically helps her so I'm not sure if it counts).

Morinth has beeen able two evade a fully-trained Justicar for 400+ years.  If you listened to Samara and Morinth,  Morinth is a fully-adept killer.who continues to get stronger after every kill.  Morinth uses the environment to her advantage and is very charismatic, people are willing to die for her.

The Justicar code is basically 100% predictable, with Morinth you have no idea how she'll act (although you can assume she'll do whatever it takes to protect herself and pursue her own desires, which seems like it could be a danger to the mission).  Even a Renegade knows that Samara wont be a threat until after the mission (at which point she can be dealt with), you can't be so sure with Morinth (although you can still deal with her after the misison as well).

Justicars code has thousands of sutras, the only sutras that Shepard knows are the Oath of SUbjugation, Protect the innocent,  Escape Incarceration. 
You have no idea how Samara will react when you recruit her.  You have no more reason to believe Samara when you recruit her than you do with Morinth.  Everybody you recruit is a danger to the mission.  A renegade doesn't know if Samara will break her oath early if she becomes disgusted by the Renegades actions.   Samara wants to kill the Renegade and so does Morinth, the biggest difference is Samara is going to use Biotics and guns while Morinth wants snu-snu.  I choose the latter and Shepard can say no.

The way the choice is presented it's really difficult to justify choosing Morinth, it definately could have been handled better and the factors in favour of Morinth can only be discovered after the loyalty mission (either way), meaning choosing her is far more likely to be an out of character decision.

Their are plenty of threads and posters defending Morinth if you don't agree with them doesn't make your judgement correct.

I know Morinth says that killing people her way is fun but there's a good chance that it's only fun for her.  She offers pleasure to her victims but I don't think there's anything that says for sure that she delivers (of course no one has survived to say either way).

Its briefly fun for the victim.

Morinth overloads their brain with an ecstasy they can't handle.

I'm sure Thane would rather die that way, than laying on a bed withering away painfully 

[Smeelia]

Guanxii wrote...

It never really occurred to me until now that Samara is secretly an Ardat-Yakshi herself, who uses the Justicar code to gain the self control she needs to cope with her own addiction. Noble warrior my ass. THIS is why Morinth disgusts her because she's battling with her own 'id' and it's like looking in the mirror. This is why she knows Morinth so well. She WAS Morinth before she became a Justicar, but in her own view Morinth is too far gone for any hope of redemption at this point.

If you read the Codex entry it says that roughly 1% of all Asari are on the "Ardat-Yakshi scale" and that the vast majority of them aren't actually dangerous.  There's not really any solid evidence (that I'm aware of at least) that Samara is a deadly Ardat-Yakshi and it's quite possible that her Ardat-Yakshi genes plus those of her partner were enough to create full Ardat-Yakshi children.  It's mentioned that only purebloods are the deadly kind of Ardat-Yakshi (I'm not sure if that's in the codex though, not that everything there is true either) and this makes some sense since a full Ardat-Yakshi is sterile (another reason Samara is unlikely to be one, assuming that it's true) and it'd take partial Ardat-Yakshi genes from both parents combining to make a full Ardat-Yakshi.

It's also worth noting that Samara was doing some good deeds before becoming a Justicar (although she also made some questionable decisions), she mentions helping slaves escape from a group of mercenaries.  From the same story she also gives the impression that she may have been a little ruthless before being a Justicar (which makes her dislike of Renegades stranger than it already is) since she mentions killing all of her former comrades (although it's possible that they already knew about the slaves and she does suggest she at least gave them a chance to do the right thing).

[jbblue05]

mrmarcus101 wrote...

No, if Samara was an Ardat-Yakshi there would be no Morinth. It's stated that A-Ys are sterile.

What if Samara was lying?  Samara is the only one who tells us they are infertile.

Maybe Ardart Yakshi are fertile and they kill their partner when the joining is done.

Maybe Samara turned down Shepard because she knew she would kill Shepard.

Modifié par jbblue05, 28 février 2011 - 02:05 .

[NICKjnp]

It isn't known if it takes two Asari to make an Ardat-Yakshi OR if it only takes a carrier plus another mate (Asari or non-Asari). The problem with Asari genetics is that the mother doesn't take any genetics from the "father". Morinth's father could have been a Volus for all we know.

[Smeelia]

jbblue05 wrote...

Morinth has beeen able two evade a fully-trained Justicar for 400+ years.  If you listened to Samara and Morinth,  Morinth is a fully-adept killer.who continues to get stronger after every kill.  Morinth uses the environment to her advantage and is very charismatic, people are willing to die for her.

At the moment though there's nothing to suggest she's more powerful than Samara and if Morinth is going to keep getting stronger then that seems like another reason to kill her now before she can overcome Shepard's willpower (or otherwise cause great destruction).  The main reason Morinth has been able to evade Samara is because she's cunning and devious, that doesn't mean she's better in a straight fight and you already have people for strategy (plus her skills are in avoiding an enemy, you're out to catch one).  Samara was also held at bay by her code forcing her to help others and protect the innocent (giving Morinth opportunities to escape if innocents were in immediate danger), when Samara joins you she wont be restricted by the code since she's sworn to your command above the rest of the code.

Morinth isn't necessarily charismatic, she can directly affect people's minds to control them.  That's a useful skill but not necessarily more useful than Samara's killing power and we already know it can be resisted by strong willed people (like Shepard).

jbblue05 wrote...

Justicars code has thousands of sutras, the only sutras that Shepard knows are the Oath of SUbjugation, Protect the innocent,  Escape Incarceration. 
You have no idea how Samara will react when you recruit her.  You have no more reason to believe Samara when you recruit her than you do with Morinth.  Everybody you recruit is a danger to the mission.  A renegade doesn't know if Samara will break her oath early if she becomes disgusted by the Renegades actions.   Samara wants to kill the Renegade and so does Morinth, the biggest difference is Samara is going to use Biotics and guns while Morinth wants snu-snu.  I choose the latter and Shepard can say no.

I'd like to think that Cerberus did the research into the Justicar code before suggesting Samara as a possible teammate and there's nothing stopping Shepard from doing the research either.  It seems fairly clear that Samara considers her code to be the most important thing in her life and while we don't know the exact words of her oath it's fairly clear that she'll do whatever you say until the mission is done.  She says she'd have to kill you if you make her do something unjust but that means she'll do it and kill you after the oath (which she says she might do if you're a Renegade anyway).  In fairness, we're not given quite as much detail as we could be to make the decision (so I can fully understand why some people don't trust Samara) but it's not much of a leap to think that she'll stay loyal till the end of the mission, Morinth doesn't have that advantage.  Infact, the biggest difference between them isn't in how they'll kill you but that Morinth is happy to do it before the mission is over while Samara has to wait until her oath ends.

If you really think Samara might break her oath to kill you early then it'd be tough to trust anyone on your team, especially considering their histories.  If you think it's better to kill her early then you might as well kill those other threats too (although I know a lot of people would be happy to).

jbblue05 wrote...

Their are plenty of threads and posters defending Morinth if you don't agree with them doesn't make your judgement correct.

I wasn't saying anyone was wrong to defend Morinth, it's just that it's poorly presented in the game and at the time you have to make the choice there's very little in favour of Morinth and a lot in favour of Samara for Shepard in-character (with killing both being a better option that taking Morinth, though that's sadly unavailable).

jbblue05 wrote...

Its briefly fun for the victim.

Morinth overloads their brain with an ecstasy they can't handle.

I'm sure Thane would rather die that way, than laying on a bed withering away painfully 

Possibly, although who knows how horrible it might really be.  I was just saying that we don't really know for sure either way (and I wouldn't volunteer to find out, although I could understand that Thane might).

yorkj86 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

It isn't known if it takes two Asari to make an Ardat-Yakshi OR if it only takes a carrier plus another mate (Asari or non-Asari). The problem with Asari genetics is that the mother doesn't take any genetics from the "father". Morinth's father could have been a Volus for all we know.

Asari genetics, how do they work?  No, seriously, it changes from game to game.

I think they've been consistent in saying that the mother uses the DNA to "randomise" the genetics of their offspring, I suppose it's like they've got a built in randomness generator and they use the DNA of the father as their "seed" (I think that's right for an analogy).  I'm not sure if it's the same for Asari-Asari pairings, or perhaps the similarity of the DNA means the randomisation is much less significant and that may be why Ardat-Yakshi genes end up stronger.

From the way it's described though, there doesn't seem to be much reason that an Asari with a non-Asari father couldn't be an Ardat-Yakshi.

Modifié par Smeelia, 28 février 2011 - 02:21 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Followed quickly by a collective "Oh God, now that crazy serial killer b*tch is going to kill me."

This.

You're just as likely to die by Samara or Morinth, regardless of which one you take with you. The difference being that one wants to kill you for the evulz and to get off on your death - the other will kill you for doing bad things. If you're a renegade then sure, you won't want someone around who is likely to kill you for what you do.

But at least Samara is predictable in that sense. You could easily avoid the fight with her by putting an innocent in danger, leave her omega or something - have Thane hold a person hostage, and she'll let you go because her Code demands the innocent be protected. Easy.

Morinth however...she's a predator and calculating. She will wait, watch and strike when she sees the slightest opening. And you've put her on an ship with the most powerful unit put together. Powerful People = More Brain Jollies = Excited and Crazy Predator.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 28 février 2011 - 02:37 .

[jbblue05]

Smeelia wrote...

At the moment though there's nothing to suggest she's more powerful than Samara and if Morinth is going to keep getting stronger then that seems like another reason to kill her now before she can overcome Shepard's willpower (or otherwise cause great destruction).  The main reason Morinth has been able to evade Samara is because she's cunning and devious, that doesn't mean she's better in a straight fight and you already have people for strategy (plus her skills are in avoiding an enemy, you're out to catch one).  Samara was also held at bay by her code forcing her to help others and protect the innocent (giving Morinth opportunities to escape if innocents were in immediate danger), when Samara joins you she wont be restricted by the code since she's sworn to your command above the rest of the code.

What's the worse thing Morinth has done?  Pervert an entire village, while Samara slaughters the entire village
You forget the more Paragon and Renegade points Shepard gets, Shepard gets stronger. 
Their are more than one way to engage in a fight.  All that matters is that you survive and can kill your opponent before they can kill you..
Shepard is trying to catch an individual in ME2?

Morinth isn't necessarily charismatic, she can directly affect people's minds to control them.  That's a useful skill but not necessarily more useful than Samara's killing power and we already know it can be resisted by strong willed people (like Shepard).

Morinth is Charismatic she's a great actor.  Samara tells you she's charismatic.  Nef and the guy who asks you for tiickets on Omega are infatuated with Morinth.  Morinth is a biotic warrior just like Samara.  Samara just has a dossier while Morinth doesn't. Plus Shepard sees Morinth's powers first-hand.

Morinth DOESN'T control her victims.  She only controls them during the union and when does your dead.

I'd like to think that Cerberus did the research into the Justicar code before suggesting Samara as a possible teammate and there's nothing stopping Shepard from doing the research either.  It seems fairly clear that Samara considers her code to be the most important thing in her life and while we don't know the exact words of her oath it's fairly clear that she'll do whatever you say until the mission is done.  She says she'd have to kill you if you make her do something unjust but that means she'll do it and kill you after the oath (which she says she might do if you're a Renegade anyway).  In fairness, we're not given quite as much detail as we could be to make the decision (so I can fully understand why some people don't trust Samara) but it's not much of a leap to think that she'll stay loyal till the end of the mission, Morinth doesn't have that advantage.  Infact, the biggest difference between them isn't in how they'll kill you but that Morinth is happy to do it before the mission is over while Samara has to wait until her oath ends.

Cerberus tells you recruit a lot of unstable poeple.who happened to be great fighters.  meeting Samara the first-time you have no reason to trust her, its meta-gaming to say she's trustworthy and sincere.

Morinth abastains from snu-snu with Shepard until after the suicide mission is complete and Shepard is a retard if s/he tries to have freaky-mind sex with Morinth.

If you really think Samara might break her oath to kill you early then it'd be tough to trust anyone on your team, especially considering their histories.  If you think it's better to kill her early then you might as well kill those other threats too (although I know a lot of people would be happy to)

Recruiting squadmates allows you to get to know them better and form friendships and better understanding of their personality.
Samara rubbed me the wrong way.  (I didn't like Garrus, Tali, or Thane either)
Luckily I was provided an alternative to Samara and I found her more useful to my mission and future missions than Samara

I wasn't saying anyone was wrong to defend Morinth, it's just that it's poorly presented in the game and at the time you have to make the choice there's very little in favour of Morinth and a lot in favour of Samara for Shepard in-character (with killing both being a better option that taking Morinth, though that's sadly unavailable).

Morinth wasn't meant to be sympatheic character.  You recruit her for her power.

Modifié par jbblue05, 28 février 2011 - 02:50 .

[Orcvader]

GodWood wrote...

A collective "Thank god. That crazy Justicar b*tch was going to kill me."

ROFL!

Is it true you can hook up with Samara/Mori and not count as an LI or mess with any LI's?

[Smeelia]

jbblue05 wrote...

What's the worse thing Morinth has done?  Pervert an entire village, while Samara slaughters the entire village
You forget the more Paragon and Renegade points Shepard gets, Shepard gets stronger. 
Their are more than one way to engage in a fight.  All that matters is that you survive and can kill your opponent before they can kill you..
Shepard is trying to catch an individual in ME2?

Well she has killed people over the course of 400 years and perverting a village to make live sacrifices to you then turning them against a Justicar knowing they'll die just so you can escape seems a little worse than merely killing them (Samara spares the unaffected children as well remember so she's not just killing indiscriminately).  Morinth hasn't succeeded in killing Samara either, even when she had an entire village of people fighting for her (while Samara has only ever been fighting alone until now).

Shepard isn't trying to catch an individual, they're trying to catch an enemy (the Collectors).

jbblue05 wrote...

Morinth is Charismatic she's a great actor.  Samara tells you she's charismatic.  Nef and the guy who asks you for tiickets on Omega are infatuated with Morinth.  Morinth is a biotic warrior just like Samara.  Samara just has a dossier while Morinth doesn't. Plus Shepard sees Morinth's powers first-hand.

Morinth DOESN'T control her victims.  She only controls them during the union and when does your dead.

It sounds a lot like mind control from their comments, kind of like the reaper indoctrination in some ways (a subtle aura type thing).  They don't know why they feel compelled to like her but they do, I think Nef's journal even says something about her "crawling inside my head" or similar (although I can't remember the exact wording so I could be wrong).  She does have the "Dominate" power in game, which shows she's quite capable of forced mind control (and that's the main reason to take her along, Shepard is more than capable of being charismatic and leading people).

If you listen to the bachelor part on Illium they talk about how Asari can be attractive even to a species without a sex drive, it's quite possible that this is a natural thing that Asari have and is magnified in Ardat-Yakshi (which may be what leads to her mind control powers).

Shepard can easily see Samara in action prior to her loyalty mission so there's no reason to doubt her ability (infact your introduction shows her to be fairly strong).  The only experience Shepard has of Morinth's powers is them not working.  If you assume that the victims Morinth has had in the past were just drawn in by her charisma then there's no evidence that she's ever successfully mind controlled anyone since she might have just tricked them into doing something which seemed perfectly natural (the Asari keep Ardat-Yakshi a secret so it's very unlikely that any of her victims even knew about them let alone knew that she was one).

jbblue05 wrote...

Cerberus tells you recruit a lot of unstable poeple.who happened to be great fighters.  meeting Samara the first-time you have no reason to trust her, its meta-gaming to say she's trustworthy and sincere.

Morinth abastains from snu-snu with Shepard until after the suicide mission is complete and Shepard is a retard if s/he tries to have freaky-mind sex with Morinth.

The point is that Morinth isn't bothered about the suicide mission (infact it seems unrealistic that she goes along with the mission considering how much of a risk it is to her, perhaps she thinks that Shepard is a valuable enough "prize" to take the risk) and is willing to put it at risk to get what she wants if you give her the chance, while Samara is willing to swear an oath and put the goal that has been the focus of her life for some 400 years aside because she considers the mission worthwhile enough (you don't have to do her loyalty mission, she just asks you to).

There's plenty of non-metagame evidence that Samara can be trusted to at least finish the mission such as information on her and her code from other characters.  Infact, it's probable that Shepard would have access to more information than the player does.  Plus you get an opportunity to get to know her and see her abilities and there's nothing that suggests she wont stick with you to the end in your dealings with her.  You barely meet Morinth before making the choice and your only experiences so far show that she is definately a cold-hearted killer, there's really nothing to suggest she's anything but dangerous.  At least with Samara you have a dossier, with Morinth all you get is the word of an untrustworthy and manipulative murderer.

jbblue05 wrote...

Recruiting squadmates allows you to get to know them better and form friendships and better understanding of their personality.
Samara rubbed me the wrong way.  (I didn't like Garrus, Tali, or Thane either)
Luckily I was provided an alternative to Samara and I found her more useful to my mission and future missions than Samara

I can't blame you for not liking Samara, on a Renegade playthrough her threat to kill me seemed totally irrational given that I hadn't done anything beyond what she'd do (there's no guarantee that you're evil just because you're a Renegade).  Her code is very rigid and that makes it tough to get past (unless you really like the idea of the code).  She seems like a decent enough person behind the code but she's almost hiding behind it to avoid having to make any decisions and risk being "wrong".  Even Paragons have reasons to dislike her since she tends towards Renegade actions (she even says she'd kill innocents if her code tells her to).

I think Morinth is an interesting character with a lot of potential (not that I don't like Samara as a character), it's just that the in-game presentation is terrible and requires Shepard to make some silly decisions that fly in the face of all sense and available information in order to recruit her.  Someone suggested in another thread that it might have been better to meet Morinth first and Samara later and I could certainly see that working a lot better (although it could easily end up reversing the situation and making Samara difficult to recruit).  A kill both option would also be a nice addition (Jack has the biotic power covered anyway, not that she's stable either).

jbblue05 wrote...

Morinth wasn't meant to be sympatheic character.  You recruit her for her power.

I just don't think she's presented as having enough power more than Samara to make that worthwhile and you're basically recruiting a dangerous murderer (one that wants to kill you and would have done a moment ago if she could have) on little more than her word.  I can understand wanting to get rid of Samara but recruiting Morinth just doesn't make any sense at all in-game (unless you're just playing an evil and destructive Shepard).

Orcvader wrote...

Is it true you can hook up with Samara/Mori and not count as an LI or mess with any LI's?

It's true that you can pursue romance with either and it wont count as your love interest, though there are different reasons and pursuing Morinth will mess up your chances with any other LI.

Modifié par Smeelia, 28 février 2011 - 03:57 .