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[Destroy Raiden_]

There is actually no evidence to support they wanted them to be bi and then took it out to spite the s/s crowd all characters for time reasons and sense game characters themselves were not finished when the lines were recorded were done reading lines for male and female roles the squadmates read dialogue made for hetro shep there are lines there with male characters calling mshep a girl so obviously that line was directed for fshep not mshep.

Everyone sense gaming conception can always claim the company A took intended for the story, characters, inventory, world visitation to go one way and then took it out and changed it to spite me and my pro whatever friends because editing does occur did you know voices are recorded before animations are done? Sometimes even before a character is animated?

They try to incorporate different speech syles, different character interactions but once the editing teams figure out which characters are gong to be what personality, orientation, and or life wise these characters can do a 180 from what the original writer intended.

I can easily claim BW took out the economy and vast inventory to spite me for 2 they deliberately wanted to keep that away from me so I will protest, demand, whine, call in my friends to spam demand them, for what they owe me in 3 which in reality is not something they owe me BW made a judgement call to my economy like they did in character orientation they decided economy should go in 2 they decided character X shouldn't be bi they made a choice because its theirs to make not because they woke up one day and decided they should deliberately try to upset people.


If anything those sound files were left in as a courtesy for modders BW didn't have to leave them in but they recorded the lines and probably thought someone might like to have some fun with these and left them in as an experiment for whoever might find and mod them to use sense those who mod they may wish to play it another way you should be thankful they did that rather then scraped that contend and you would've been none the wiser for it as most companies who edit do once an item is cut from the movie, game, script whatever it is left out of all reference only if the maker chooses to make it known will it ever come out. Instead you're saying they jipped you and now owe it to you to give you what they what they cut and tossed from the game track.

[DrScarecrow]

Read post below; double-post.

Modifié par DrScarecrow, 10 août 2011 - 10:17 .

[DrScarecrow]

Destroy Raiden wrote...
5 paragraphs of run-on sentences.

Many things wrong with your post. First of all, I could hardly piece together your thoughts.

But in all seriousness, yes there is evidence to support they "wanted them to be bi": the recorded dialogue in the code. And your assertion that Bioware left the same-sex romance dialogue in "as a courtesy for modders BW didn't have to leave them in but they
recorded the lines and probably thought someone might like to have some
fun with these and left them in as an experiment for whoever might find
and mod them to use sense those who mod they may wish to play it another
way" (whoo, I need a breath even from reading that in my mind) is almost laughably inane.

There is, however, a point brought up in this thread: http://social.biowar...index/7623796/2

That being, "They wrote the bi romances out of the script, therefore, in the official game, they are straight." This form of thinking is perhaps the best "defense" used in the "Ash/Kai breaking character" debate, but then I read this:

[Kaidan and Ashley] were never established as not being bisexual anywhere other than in
your own heads. Ashley starting a relationship with a female Shepard
in ME3 would not be character breaking. It would only break the
pre-established assumptions you personally made for her, and as such it
is no different than Garrus starting a relationship with Shepard in ME2
after not being available in ME1.

It's really simple. Not every
bisexual is an equal-opportunity bisexual. Some have stronger
preferences towards one gender; some are willing to start a relationship
with one gender sooner than the other gender.
If your assumptions about these characters' sexualities are that
important to your ability to see them as good characters then I must
wonder if maybe there's something else behind all these vehement
protests against "making them gay" when they were never strictly
established as being straight in the first place.

That argument knocked my socks off and sums up my views, moot though they are, very nicely.

Destroy Raiden wrote...
[Bioware] took intended for the story, characters, inventory, world visitation to
go one way and then took it out and changed it to spite me and my pro
whatever friends because editing does occur

No one said anything about spite, Raiden. Some of the non-straight community might feel left out, yes, but I don't think any of us feel that Bioware took out the dialogue to say "NYA-HA, YOU DON'T GET YOUR GAY LOVE SEX, YOU F**S."

Destroy Raiden wrote...
[Bioware] decided character X shouldn't be bi they made a choice because its
theirs to make not because they woke up one day and decided they should
deliberately try to upset people.

Two things: it's not that "the characters aren't bi", which is not necessarily the root of the problem, it is that Shepard is not given the choice to act bi. Shepard, who you can argue has a 'canon personality', yet who we are supposed to imprint upon as ourselves, change to our [semi-]customized appearance, create choices for as ourselves, et cetera. I would be perfectly happy to have the chance as male!Shep to hit on Kaidan, even if he turns me down and says, "Sorry Shepard, I go for the ladies." At least I'll have had the chance to play as myself (albeit as my opposite gender). Second thing, no one said Bioware was trying to deliberately upset people, at least not in this thread. I am sure there are some people who are taking the whole "OMG NO GAYS!?!" thing to the extreme and feel this may be the case, but they are nuts and make the rest of us, who think "I wish I could make my Shep swing this way" look bad.

Destroy Raiden wrote...
most companies who edit do once an item is cut from the movie, game,
script whatever it is left out of all reference only if the maker
chooses to make it known will it ever come out. Instead you're saying
they jipped you and now owe it to you to give you what they what they
cut and tossed from the game track.

Apparently you've never played GTA, or any PC game where a LOT of offically unused code is still within the program.


And there I went, replying to someone when I still think the issue is a completely moot point and not up to either side to whine about.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I've heard several on the pro s/s forms say spite and they took it out deliberately generally they feel BW screwed them royally and perceive the not used dialogue as a crime and bw now must make it up by giving them so and so they are out there. Others sight the odd trilogy romance the only true trilogy for the s/s is Liara no one else so I don't get this one if Ash wasn't an option for 2 games how is she a trilogy for your fshep again?

Code can be edited out of games they're in files if BW wants to remove them you can. They didn't doesn't = they wanted to scew someone out of whatever.

Mshep in 3 will be given the chance to be bi and no one cares he got retconned to do it they only would prefer him hit on brandnew characters (or they hit on them) or some who're ok w/ the s/s switching of prior characters just want him to go FO style and be the one doing the hitting which to BW may just translate to more horrible tiger moments like we got with fshep and Jacob except this approach will then be carried over with Mshep + whomever and Fshep + whomever that alone is a horror for some players and is the main big reason why no one likes Jacob extending this dialogue "courtesy" to all s/s crewmen would probably send people returning (if they can) or trading the game back in (if they can't return).

There are less then 1% out right people who post no gays in my game. Others deemed anti s/s are actually 1/2 for it they're for new crew only and past ones being left as the game portrayed them so it's really not anti more so then middle ground less then 1% of posters are true anti and are ignored sense they're wrong the s/s option is going into 3 and they do know this they're in denial at best.

I think the only reason the debate is on is because the pro s/s people can't respect others opinions anyone jumping onto the s/s form under the romance category is immediately pounced on verbally by 12 pro s/s supporters and all threads that say I'm not comfortable with past LIs being switched but fine with prior ones are shut down by BW and told to go back to the s/s pro form and while this doesn't seem so bad the pro s/s form has a rule right there in OP saying if you do not agree with s/s don't post so where does the other side of the argument go? They're being told if you don't like it shut up and go away. You can't have an honest debate if people are not willing to talk both pros and cons to one another.

[A Great Biotic Wind]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

I think the only reason the debate is on is because the pro s/s people can't respect others opinions anyone jumping onto the s/s form

 I'm pretty sure they just want an equal cut of the pie, and as Dr.Scarecrow mentioned: It's really up to the player to make Shepard strait/gay/bi. Obviously there is almost no canonality with Shepard's sexual, if your ideal Shepard is strait, he's strait, if not, he's not. Though I think Kaiden has to be Bi. I don't know why, but when they would both ecounter eachother it seemed like a romance was about to go down.

 Right now, the problem is not with the s/s community (seeing how they got what they wanted). It's you guys who may be suffering from homophobia. I'm a strait male who's never had any homosexual thoughts, and I'll probably have one of my Shepards go balls deep with Garrus. 



Just remember that it's a game, and does not represent your own preferences.

 

[DrScarecrow]

Destroy Raiden wrote...
I think the only reason the debate is on is because the pro s/s people can't respect others opinions anyone jumping onto the s/s form under the romance category is immediately pounced on verbally by 12 pro s/s supporters and all threads that say I'm not comfortable with past LIs being switched but fine with prior ones are shut down by BW and told to go back to the s/s pro form and while this doesn't seem so bad the pro s/s form has a rule right there in OP saying if you do not agree with s/s don't post so where does the other side of the argument go? They're being told if you don't like it shut up and go away. You can't have an honest debate if people are not willing to talk both pros and cons to one another.

1. Not all "s/s" (I like the abbreviation, nice and simple and easy to type) pros are like that. Like I said, those are the nutty ones and make the rest of us--casuals--look bad. The reason you may remember them the most is because it's easer and a lot more noteworthy to recall someone who verbally blasted and whined and yelled about non-s/s romances, while it's also easy to overlook someone who is posting reasonably and without a lot of pomp. It's like tying all the Republicans together in one crazy boat because the Rep pundit Glenn Beck decided to spell out the reasons Obama wants an oligarchy on a chalk board. Likewise, those who don't feel a strong conviction to shout their preferences and wants and You Must Listen to My Opinion Nows arent likely to jump into a forum and post at all. Your lumping us all together in the same boat is a tad offensive--not wholly, though, as I can understand your exhasperation.

2. There have been some threads declaring that they did not want any more s/s romances in the third game; effectively the opposite of those declaring they did want s/s romances. It is not always the pro s/s posters who start the debates first, and it can be assumed that when the firsts posts of s/s romances were first posted (on these boards, at least) there were those opposing s/s romances that popped right up behind them, if not along with them. In fact, I would bet that when it was first revelead there would be a 'lesbian' romance (whether or not Liara counts as female is beside the point), there were posters on official forum boards saying, "I don't want this in my game."

3. All I found for the "s/s forum" was a thread in the ME3 Character and Romance forum that said it was for same-sex romances. That's not a forum. That's a thread, and can be dictated as the OP wants. "Where else to go?" Why not make your own thread? In fact, here's a quote from the OP of that s/s thread:

Christ Priestly:
Please remember:
All romances in Mass Effect 3 (as with parts 1 and
2) are optional. If you do not enjoy romance options in games, please
stay out of discussions where fans of such romances can discuss them.
Mass Effect 3 also has same sex relationships. If you do not enjoy or
approve of same sex relationships, please stay out of discussion on
these topics. While we respect each person's personal beliefs, we do not
allow insults, ridicule or hatred against people on these forums based
on religion, politics, race, age or sexual preference. People breaking
the Site Rules will be dealt with accordingly.

Now, I'm not sure if that rule is specific to the ME3CR thread, or if it expands to all the boards. If it's the former, you have to go with it in stride and try and not to ruin the s/s revelry in that board. If it's the latter, you've already broken that rule by posting your comments in a thread obviously meant to speculate on Kaidan possibly being a s/s option in ME3. The reason, I think, that that rule is there is so that s/s posters don't have to worry about getting in an argument each time they want to talk about something that may or may not be.. 'acceptable' to others (or at least, that's part of the reason).

Why would you post in a thread obviously meant for a discussion that you would not like to hear anyway? What is the point of that? To stir up resenment? To argue? To post your own thoughts? Because if you want to do at least the last thing, you can make your own thread and dictate that it is only for hetero relationships (but be warned, no hate speech or the like). If that's your issue, then take the initiative and create your own o/s romance thread.

A Great Biotic Wind wrote...
Just remember that it's a game, and does not represent your own preferences.

Yes! Thank you. Although I think even those of us who do want a few more s/s options in the game need to read this and calm tf down. Even I'm getting sick of it.

[Ryzaki]

Why on earth was this necro'd?

The ME3 boards exist for a reason people. Common sense.

[Erani]

Seriously, there's an ME3 romance section. You'd expect people to use it.

[Destroy Raiden_]

1. Not all "s/s" (I like the abbreviation, nice and simple and easy to type) pros are like that. Like I said, those are the nutty ones and make the rest of us--casuals--look bad. The reason you may remember them the most is because it's easer and a lot more noteworthy to recall someone who verbally blasted and whined and yelled about non-s/s romances, while it's also easy to overlook someone who is posting reasonably and without a lot of pomp. It's like tying all the Republicans together in one crazy boat because the Rep pundit Glenn Beck decided to spell out the reasons Obama wants an oligarchy on a chalk board. Likewise, those who don't feel a strong conviction to shout their preferences and wants and You Must Listen to My Opinion Nows arent likely to jump into a forum and post at all. Your lumping us all together in the same boat is a tad offensive--not wholly, though, as I can understand your exhasperation.

- Pro supporters do patronize, antagonize, declare the poster to have a disorder or phobia because they're voicing an opinion or concern the community doesn't want to hear. These attacking pros are not yelld at by fellow good pro supporters and told by them to knock it off that though that person may not see it your way they're allowed to type their opinions, concerns, and not be attacked the s/s community needs to police it's own.

The middle ground ones when finding the true antis post how pigheaded they are and how they should go home we let those true anti who talk bigoted know its not welcomed the pro should defend those who show concern or disapproval for any reason be that they don't like retcons to character consistency is throw out the window from attacks but they do not that shows they on some level agree with it and think the person that is being attacked on some level deserve it. You say my statements lump you all into one boat all pro's lump all middlegrounders into homophones, trolls, anti s/s, and tell them to shut up and go away.  There is also those negative attacks are remembered where those  decent pros wanting to stay out of the attacks are not remembered because they do nothing to police their own.  

2. There have been some threads declaring that they did not want any more s/s romances in the third game; effectively the opposite of those declaring they did want s/s romances. It is not always the pro s/s posters who start the debates first, and it can be assumed that when the firsts posts of s/s romances were first posted (on these boards, at least) there were those opposing s/s romances that popped right up behind them, if not along with them. In fact, I would bet that when it was first revealed there would be a 'lesbian' romance (whether or not Liara counts as female is beside the point), there were posters on official forum boards saying, "I don't want this in my game."

- All those threads are shut down sometimes withing hours of being posted. One was even taken down for unknown reasons off the site BW deleted the thread and all its contents. so again where does those who have concerns go to voice them? They're forced to either not make threads up or they must go to the s/s board where they will be attacked, belittled,ect for expressing a view not consistent with that threads populous again shutting down any true debate.

The Liara issue is not of issue rarly is fshep bought up because everyone already knows she is a bi main and Liara is a bi character no antis say retcon Liara straight they don't care because it is in her character they don't care if fshep hits on women because she already is bi potential via Liara. The only issue I hear with fshep is if past male only LI get retconed into being fshep's LIs as well it makes their love cookie cutter, is a retcon, or it is not cconsistentith what is already potrayed in game. No one cares mshep who by BW was already said to be hetro got retconed to be able to be gay/bi for 3. they're concerned with the past LIs only being changed.

3. All I found for the "s/s forum" was a thread in the ME3 Character and Romance forum that said it was for same-sex romances. That's not a forum. That's a thread, and can be dictated as the OP wants. "Where else to go?" Why not make your own thread? In fact, here's a quote from the OP of that s/s thread:

Christ Priestly:
Please remember:
All romances in Mass Effect 3 (as with parts 1 and
2) are optional. If you do not enjoy romance options in games, please
stay out of discussions where fans of such romances can discuss them.
Mass Effect 3 also has same sex relationships. If you do not enjoy or
approve of same sex relationships, please stay out of discussion on
these topics. While we respect each person's personal beliefs, we do not
allow insults, ridicule or hatred against people on these forums based
on religion, politics, race, age or sexual preference. People breaking
the Site Rules will be dealt with accordingly.

Now, I'm not sure if that rule is specific to the ME3CR thread, or if it expands to all the boards. If it's the former, you have to go with it in stride and try and not to ruin the s/s revelry in that board. If it's the latter, you've already broken that rule by posting your comments in a thread obviously meant to speculate on Kaidan possibly being a s/s option in ME3. The reason, I think, that that rule is there is so that s/s posters don't have to worry about getting in an argument each time they want to talk about something that may or may not be.. 'acceptable' to others (or at least, that's part of the reason).

- The OPs own rule from that form: This thread doesn't exist for people to express that they are against the inclusion of same-sex romance either. It's been confirmed by BioWare, and if you want to petition them to take it out, do it somewhere else. (Middle grounds do not deny s/s is an option they know full well it is and yet BW closes all anti forms and tells them take it back to this threads where this rule says make your own thread up circles are fun aren't they?" So both times are being told shut up and go away BW shows their preferences where they should be neutral. 100% of the threads no matter how civil are closed 100% of the time BW says the aren't playing sides kind of hard to take them at their word.


Why would you post in a thread obviously meant for a discussion that you would not like to hear anyway? What is the point of that? To stir up resenment? To argue? To post your own thoughts? Because if you want to do at least the last thing, you can make your own thread and dictate that it is only for hetero relationships (but be warned, no hate speech or the like). If that's your issue, then take the initiative and create your own o/s romance thread.

- The point of most of the "anti" threads actually state in OP they're fine with brandnew characters being s/s they're 100% for that they're however not for past LI being changed for a varietyf reasons then other posters who share that view will post like wise then it is iimmediately inidated with pro s/s supporters spaming, antagonizing patronizing saying untrue assumptions, slandering people, ect then the thread is closed it is the same m.o. every time the anti threads that pop up do not say if you agree with s/s go post on the other site they only say if you're the 1% hate monger who is truly anti gay don't post.

The lack of anyother phrase anti threads exist to provide a thread for those with concerns to post w/o harassmentut they're not left alone they're harassednd the thread is always closed the longest running one did so for 2 days quite a feat but that was the one BW took off the boards so noone can know the circumstancess to how it got shut down.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 12 août 2011 - 12:50 .